Mazda Ice Academy: Trial By Ice And Snow CX-5, CX-3 And MX-5

[holyninja3]

Not sure why anyone is bothering with Unobtanium... seems like he has a very immature or rather juvenile view of the "real world", and this is coming from someone younger than he. I was really interested in reading this thread for what it was, how the CX-5 and other Mazdas (specifically AWD) stack up to other vehicles in snow and ice conditions, as I am finding myself in such conditions more than previous and I do not have much experience in them, but having to wade through all this bs is annoying to say the least. Unobtanium, sounds like you loved your Jeep, and I have no quarrels there, everyone has different preferences, but I am not sure why you have to push that view, as well as many others you have expressed, onto everyone else. Healthy fact based discussions and debates are great and welcomed, but the childish, self righteous bigotry is not.

To get back on topic, I think most if not everyone on this forum purchased their CX5 because it is fun to drive. I am glad it seems that has carried over to the AWD portion as well, instead of the car doing everything for you and making it dul, the CX-5 delivers and keeps it fun, while still safe and just as efficient. I wish I had a chance to do some of these ice driving courses with multiple vehicles, sounds like a lot of fun!

 

[Lbear]

I'm guessing you think our police would be fine without pepper spray, batons, or firearms, and thay we should disband our military, as well...yes? Also, let me ask, since you don't believe in violence, what is your recourse if someone breaks into your home or attacks you?just let it happen? Or call the police and hope they get there in time to do what you won't, and then condemn them for it? I would like to know how you forsee yourself actually living out your beliefs.

Not the time or place to get into a debate over this issue.

Suffice it to say, the people you are talking to here on this forum might know more and surprise you as to what they did or are doing for a profession.

If you are truly a "sworn police officer" (as you seem to be implying) then you would clearly know that you are trained and taught from day one in the academy to 30+ years on the street to DEESCALATE a situation, not escalate it. Cops who escalate situations are known as "hotheads" or "loose canons" and they actually create more problems for other officers, constantly get citizen complaints against them, create hazardous and deadly situations for other responding officers and give other officers and the department a bad name. Sadly, these officers are hard and difficult to weed out since their aggression is not truly shown until after their probationary period is over, hence the difficulty to remove them since they are then protected by the police union.

Violence is the gold standard for thugs, criminals, and social deviants. An officer responds to a situation with the use of force model. They are trained to deescalate a situation and only respond with force equal to the threat.

A 150 LB officer can do as good or better job on the street than a 250 LB muscle bound officer. It's all about how you treat, react and deal with the people you come into contact with. 90% of the job is mental and only 10% is actually physical.

The point of all of this is if you are using this MAZDA FORUM to release some pent up aggression due to your job or life circumstances, so be it, but you are going about it all wrong. If you truly are this angry, see a psychiatrist or counselor. Most departments will allow you to go in strictly confidential without it affecting your job as long as you are not a threat to yourself or others.

This CAR FORUM is not the place to do it. Go find a forum where it is more fitting for your type and situation.

 

[Unobtanium]

Not the time or place to get into a debate over this issue.

Suffice it to say, the people you are talking to here on this forum might know more and surprise you as to what they did or are doing for a profession.

If you are truly a "sworn police officer" (as you seem to be implying) then you would clearly know that you are trained and taught from day one in the academy to 30+ years on the street to DEESCALATE a situation, not escalate it. I am not LE, nor did or do I imply it. De-escalation is also done through show of force, as well as how one handles the situation in other ways, as well, though. Cops who escalate situations are known as "hotheads" or "loose canons" and they actually create more problems for other officers, constantly get citizen complaints against them, create hazardous and deadly situations for other responding officers and give other officers and the department a bad name. Sadly, these officers are hard and difficult to weed out since their aggression is not truly shown until after their probationary period is over, hence the difficulty to remove them since they are then protected by the police union. Been on the job for nearly 6 years. Only had to get physical on a couple of occasions, and that was with someone who was demented and violent, and involved restraint only, no striking or anything that could have harmed them beyond them over exerting themselves. Part of this is that I don't look like someone you should push around, and I think that discouraged a few people over the years, too.

Violence is the gold standard for thugs, criminals, and social deviants. An officer responds to a situation with the use of force model. They are trained to deescalate a situation and only respond with force equal to the threat.
What is the last item on the wheel of force? Lethal force. The ultimate expression of violence. Violence is the last, and ultimate recourse. I'm glad we agree.
A 150 LB officer can do as good or better job on the street than a 250 LB muscle bound officer. It's all about how you treat, react and deal with the people you come into contact with. 90% of the job is mental and only 10% is actually physical.
100%, that. However, there is a reason I am who deals with violent psych cases and not the 110# female.
The point of all of this is if you are using this MAZDA FORUM to release some pent up aggression due to your job or life circumstances, so be it, but you are going about it all wrong. If you truly are this angry, see a psychiatrist or counselor. Most departments will allow you to go in strictly confidential without it affecting your job as long as you are not a threat to yourself or others.
I responded to the question "Are you a dick in real life?" My answer was "Yes, to some people, and here is how and why...". My job is not all fun and games, and it CAN be frustrating. I think that a lot is lost in translation online/in type, though, and me being someone who will speak their mind on things when most people refuse to call an ace an ace, or a spade a spade, exacerbates the issue. Me? I'm calm. But for most people to say what they are thinking, they have to be riled up, so it's interpreted that I MUST be riled...because I was real with someone. From time to time I have actually spoken to counselors and therapists. I think that it's a very valuable tool when making life decisions, as well as to calibrate your own rheostat. I spent a few months last year actually talking with one before I decided to move. I have found their incite very valuable, and sometimes they see things that you cannot, because you are too close to the situation. Every one I have spoken to though observed me to be level as a metronome and extremely realistic, so what can I say? BTDT, and I agree, they are great tools to help make important life decisions, or if you DO have an issue with something that you can't get a handle on. Especially relationships. I personally think that couples should go to a therapist once a month just to lend outside perspective. but I am sure others may disagree, too.
This CAR FORUM is not the place to do it. Go find a forum where it is more fitting for your type and situation.

It IS a car forum, and there is someone on here I butt heads with, and a 3rd party observed this, and asked a question, and got a blunt answer. Apparently, they/others were not happy with the blunt answer. Not my concern, really, but you took the time to write out a well-though piece, so I'm responding in kind...because like I said originally...yes, I CAN BE a dick. When the situation warrants.

now, as to violence being the gold standard, it's not up for debate. It is. Period. When all the talking is done, if there is no violence in store, then the speaker will be removed from the equation, whether that means being wrestled down, or more, who knows?

Someone brought up Hitler. I'd like to thank all the GI's and other soldiers who used stern words to end the Holocaust...see what I mean? Also, your Wheel of Force. In the end, there is one thing that separates law, order, and chaos and destruction. That one thing is applied or implied violence. That's it. Whittle it all down, and you are left with the threat of forceable confinement (prison), or death (electric chair, killed like the rancher on the West coast, etc.). but without violence? How would a criminal act if they knew 0 violence could ever be visited on them? With impunity! That is how.

People on this forum are black and white in their understanding of violence, it seems. The vibe seems to be "Oh, violence is the gold standard?! He MUST! be crazy angry and full of rage!" No...I just know how the world works. Violence an the threat thereof is all that holds society together. Anyone who thinks otherwise, well, you're beyond my reaching, and I hope that people who don't think otherwise, continue to do their jobs very well so that you may continue to believe they are unnecessary. In short, you remind me of the people who lambasted a friend of mine who saved a guys life doing CPR in a restaurant for "being too rough" with the downed person while doing CPR because they performed good, quality compressions. Basically: Real world = messy.

 

[Unobtanium]

Not sure why anyone is bothering with Unobtanium... seems like he has a very immature or rather juvenile view of the "real world", and this is coming from someone younger than he. I was really interested in reading this thread for what it was, how the CX-5 and other Mazdas (specifically AWD) stack up to other vehicles in snow and ice conditions, as I am finding myself in such conditions more than previous and I do not have much experience in them, but having to wade through all this bs is annoying to say the least. Unobtanium, sounds like you loved your Jeep, and I have no quarrels there, everyone has different preferences, but I am not sure why you have to push that view, as well as many others you have expressed, onto everyone else. Healthy fact based discussions and debates are great and welcomed, but the childish, self righteous bigotry is not.

To get back on topic, I think most if not everyone on this forum purchased their CX5 because it is fun to drive. I am glad it seems that has carried over to the AWD portion as well, instead of the car doing everything for you and making it dul, the CX-5 delivers and keeps it fun, while still safe and just as efficient. I wish I had a chance to do some of these ice driving courses with multiple vehicles, sounds like a lot of fun!

I won't address your insults, because I don't really value your opinion of me.

However, back on topic, as you say, I bought the CX-5 because it's cheap, reliable transportation. Performance is rather dull and lack-luster, in the scheme of things, although good for an econo-commuter vehicle. I just think that people have lost sight of what a CUV is for/who buys them, because a ultra-niche market has sprung up around a tightly sprung model. THAT is my point regarding the CX-5 and it's enthusiasts. It's niche.

As to the AWD, I just wish it were a bit more variable in how it applied torque instead of of not being able to modulate it that much. That being said, it is a HUGE! advantage over FWD, as I discovered when my rear diff was disabled. Even on dry roads. Mazda's AWD may be a bit outdated in its capabilities, but I was blown away by how well it DOES work, and their new AWD logic is a lot better, from what I'm reading.

 

[rwortman]

But I also don't need to spend $100 for a dyno run(s) to recognize where I am getting power in a gear/rpm range that I was getting very little before. I don't plan on buying a dyno run until I'm ready to get a baseline after I install and start tuning my turbo. A tune isn't necessarily about getting a faster 0-60 as it is getting higher performance throughout the power band. We are talking an NA engine here. Since I've owned a cx-5 of both motors since 2012, I can tell what is making a difference and what is not motor and suspension wise and for those going that route, there are plenty of legit mods.

With all due respect, talk is cheap. I have seen car magazines test tuner cars that didn't have near the performance the tuners were claiming. Even a 0-60 or 50 to 80 time before and after would say something. Higher performance throughout the powerband should be measurable or it isn't there. I wasn't comparing stock CX-5 to stock Edge. I was saying you could take your CX-5 and spend enough money to have bought an Edge and still have less performance. That's all. I have seen tests where lowered and tuned cars actually turned higher lap times than stock ones and exhaust and intake mod's raise horsepower by 1 to 2%. If you car is going to "run circles" around a stock one and you can't measure the difference with a simple stopwatch, then the differences don't exist,

 

[Unobtanium]

With all due respect, talk is cheap. I have seen car magazines test tuner cars that didn't have near the performance the tuners were claiming. Even a 0-60 or 50 to 80 time before and after would say something. Higher performance throughout the powerband should be measurable or it isn't there. I wasn't comparing stock CX-5 to stock Edge. I was saying you could take your CX-5 and spend enough money to have bought an Edge and still have less performance. That's all. I have seen tests where lowered and tuned cars actually turned higher lap times than stock ones and exhaust and intake mod's raise horsepower by 1 to 2%. If you car is going to "run circles" around a stock one and you can't measure the difference with a simple stopwatch, then the differences don't exist,

Agreed, but there is a lot on the table with the cx5 suspension from the factory , and most tuner cars thay turn worse 0-60 times do so because they are traction limited. With awd, it shouldn't be an issue...check out tuner evo and sti cars...

I'd say he legitimately has a faster, better handling car than factory, but driveability has definitely suffered by my standards based on his posts about his transmission/shifting, etc

 

[fdew]

as to violence being the gold standard. Violence can determine who wins, but it has no effect on who is right.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

With all due respect, talk is cheap. I have seen car magazines test tuner cars that didn't have near the performance the tuners were claiming. Even a 0-60 or 50 to 80 time before and after would say something. Higher performance throughout the powerband should be measurable or it isn't there. I wasn't comparing stock CX-5 to stock Edge. I was saying you could take your CX-5 and spend enough money to have bought an Edge and still have less performance. That's all. I have seen tests where lowered and tuned cars actually turned higher lap times than stock ones and exhaust and intake mod's raise horsepower by 1 to 2%. If you car is going to "run circles" around a stock one and you can't measure the difference with a simple stopwatch, then the differences don't exist,

I don't bother with trying to time anymore because the numbers vary too much. I've already been there done that and it's too inconsistent based on wind, weight density altitude outside and inside air temperature and other factors. I've aready done those tests and seen up to 1 sec reduced 0-60, and I'm pretty sure i posted it a while back. But I don't put to much weight behind those numbers for sharing because I, nor do many other self testers on here don't have the proper instruments to make an accurate measurement. As far as exhaust and intake I don't expect anything much from it outside a tune. And the majority of the feedback and dynos on the tune come from owners not the tuner; and there is a lot of it from all over the world but you wont find much of it on this forum. For people interested the data and detailed discussion is there but I never felt the need to repeat thousands of forum pages and fb posts worth of information here. And I certainly don't need an instrument to tell me that I can round a corner sharper and faster. I've been deiving an awd cx5 since 2012 and the mods didnt all come on at once. Almost 100k combined on mostly the same routes, same "hit it" spots and I can simply control my cx5 in a manner that i could not at stock or with lesser mods. Simple things like a 90 left turn from an intersection I use anytime i leave my house. It's a single left turn to 2 lane and has a curb so you cant cut the corner; you can only turn into the lane or understeer/turn wide into the outside a bit before turning back in. I "hit it" there everytime if I'm at front. At this point i can wot 1-2 into the lane with a little of oversteer if I want. Before I was on coils and using springs only I was not reaching redline without getting near the next lane line.( crossing the line). I went from being able to round a certain highway curve at maybe 65 max comftably in my lane with some throttle and a 75 exit to being able to enter at 70 and wot through for a 85+ if I want exit without feeling like I'm about to have to switch lanes. I don't need an instrument for these.

 

[banjos-n-beer]

I'm not pimping the Edge, I think the base mustang motor is nice, but for the money spent? Heck no! GLK350 2013 would cost you $30-35K FULLY loaded, lightly used (30k miles or so), and tear the Edge Sport up like a soft dinner roll.

No, as much as I hate Chrysler, I'm pretty bent on buying an SRT8 Jeep Grand Cherokee after I pay my CX-5 off. Why? because reliability is much less a concern when it's not your daily, and it's a ridiculously awesome SUV, and I have gotten spoiled by the space and AWD offered by SUV's.

This seems to have your name all over it:


Jeep CEO: Hellcat-Powered Jeep Grand Cherokee Coming in 2017

http://blog.caranddriver.com/jeep-ceo-hellcat-powered-jeep-grand-cherokee-coming-in-2017/

Me, personally, all these 700 HP vehicles are starting to get ridiculous. But they seem like a good strategy to deprive baby boomers of their life savings in a never ending chase of nostalgia.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

You can always import a Japanese sports car and get 700hp and maneuverability lol

 

[Unobtanium]

as to violence being the gold standard. Violence can determine who wins, but it has no effect on who is right.

Sadly, that doesn't matter, or the Native Americans would not have ended up being forced to adopt European culture/be sequestered onto tiny plots of land that the US government "decided to preserve for them". Right/Wrong, historically, has been of little to no value to the outcome, and as they say, the victor writes history.

 

[Unobtanium]

This seems to have your name all over it:


Jeep CEO: Hellcat-Powered Jeep Grand Cherokee Coming in 2017

http://blog.caranddriver.com/jeep-ceo-hellcat-powered-jeep-grand-cherokee-coming-in-2017/

Me, personally, all these 700 HP vehicles are starting to get ridiculous. But they seem like a good strategy to deprive baby boomers of their life savings in a never ending chase of nostalgia.

Honestly. I'd be happy with a 2-3 year old regular SRT8. The SRT8 holds value pretty darn well, and I bet the Hellcat, even moreso. I'm kindof done with $1000 car notes.

 

[Unobtanium]

You can always import a Japanese sports car and get 700hp and maneuverability lol

I'd rather buy an American car. Cheaper, and better performance, so far.

 

[banjos-n-beer]

Honestly. I'd be happy with a 2-3 year old regular SRT8. The SRT8 holds value pretty darn well, and I bet the Hellcat, even moreso. I'm kindof done with $1000 car notes.

The Hellcat will probably initially sell for 50+% over Retail.... which is absurd for what it is.

No more powerful sports cars for me at all, I'd rather put that $$ into a 2nd property... like a cabin on a lake or in the middle of no where.

 

[Unobtanium]

The Hellcat will probably initially sell for 50+% over Retail.... which is absurd for what it is.

No more powerful sports cars for me at all, I'd rather put that $$ into a 2nd property... like a cabin on a lake or in the middle of no where.

That's what I did. 35 acres on a mountain outside the city. House next year, I hope.

That said, in about 5 years, I'm going to want a new "toy" in the automotive sense.

You really think it will sell for over MSRP? It might. The viper didn't, though, so...?

 

[banjos-n-beer]

That's what I did. 35 acres on a mountain outside the city. House next year, I hope.

That said, in about 5 years, I'm going to want a new "toy" in the automotive sense.

You really think it will sell for over MSRP? It might. The viper didn't, though, so...?

Yeah, I do. The Hellcat Chargers and what-not have been seeing serious upcharges, and corporate isn't quite all that happy about dealers holding onto inventory when the production lines can't keep up with demand. Same for the new fancy high-end Mustangs.... I saw one for sale in NY with an asking price of over $125k....

Congrats on the property.... I'm really eyeballing island property... which of course adds a serious premium to the mortgage. But I'd be willing to live quite modestly as a trade-off for location.

 

[banjos-n-beer]

You really think it will sell for over MSRP? It might. The viper didn't, though, so...?

Here's a Shelby that hasn't even been built yet, but is listing as sold... $175k asking price!!!

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/ford/mustang/1765068.html

And from another story:

"The GT350 isn’t the only American muscle car that’s seen these kinds of “market adjustments” added to their price in recent days. Markups on the similarly low-volume Dodge Challenger and Charger Hellcat models got so out of hand last year that the automaker, in an effort to encourage dealers to bring the prices down, had to update its allocation policy to penalize the ones who didn’t sell their cars in a timely fashion. Nevertheless, it’s still common to see the $65,000 cars listed for over $100,000"

 

[Unobtanium]

Yeah, I do. The Hellcat Chargers and what-not have been seeing serious upcharges, and corporate isn't quite all that happy about dealers holding onto inventory when the production lines can't keep up with demand. Same for the new fancy high-end Mustangs.... I saw one for sale in NY with an asking price of over $125k....

Congrats on the property.... I'm really eyeballing island property... which of course adds a serious premium to the mortgage. But I'd be willing to live quite modestly as a trade-off for location.

I thought about island, but the salt. The corrosion. The sand. I'm a mountains and stream person. The beach is awesome, yes, but that's my preference. I have a friend who LOVES the midwest. All brown and drab, in my book (not talking about all of it of course, but he LIKES the brown/drab parts!). To each their own is no more apt than when it comes to home location!

Some dealers mark up, some don't. It's worth a plane ticket...

The worst mark-up I have ever seen though was the FGT. We had ours priced at $100K over MSRP. Sticker had a hand-written addendum taped next to it "$100K market adjustment". Crazy. Someone bought it, too.

 

[fdew]

Sadly, that doesn't matter, or the Native Americans would not have ended up being forced to adopt European culture/be sequestered onto tiny plots of land that the US government "decided to preserve for them". Right/Wrong, historically, has been of little to no value to the outcome, and as they say, the victor writes history.

It matters a great deal. I might have been more clear if I had said knowing what is true rather then what is right. Truth in the area of what car we buy and why (like handling on ice and snow, value of snow tires ETC) is very important because it allows each of us to chose the car that is best for our needs and wants regardless of how many sold to who or why. If we can find out the truth we can make good decisions. Even when we have no control, knowing the truth is still important. It helps define us and how we live and even how we die. Example, Christians who were beheaded died knowing the truth. They won.

 

[Unobtanium]

It matters a great deal. I might have been more clear if I had said knowing what is true rather then what is right. Truth in the area of what car we buy and why (like handling on ice and snow, value of snow tires ETC) is very important because it allows each of us to chose the car that is best for our needs and wants regardless of how many sold to who or why. If we can find out the truth we can make good decisions. Even when we have no control, knowing the truth is still important. It helps define us and how we live and even how we die. Example, Christians who were beheaded died knowing the truth. They won.

Truth is such a gray area. For example, you feel like Christians who died knew the "truth". Yet a Muslim would disagree, and a Jew would disagree with the Muslim and the Christian, and an Atheist thinks they are all wrong. None of them can logically prove their "truth" over the other...so they simply pick and choose what "feels right", and a VAST majority of them choose based on where they were born pretty much. Regardless, the person who's head got lopped off is dead.