Mazda Ice Academy: Trial By Ice And Snow CX-5, CX-3 And MX-5

[V8toilet]

I was referring to the most current Skyactiv diesel that is available in the CX5 and Mazda 6 in other countries. Mazda rumored that it would be available in the U.S. for a few years but that never came to fruition and some speculate it was because it coildnt pass U.S. emissions.

I just hope that the rumored rotary doesn't follow the same fate.

 

[MikeM.]

Another report with verdict, too bad I were expecting a more detailed report/analysis and more videos. At least they are honest: "They may not have dominated as thoroughly as the event organisers would have liked, but the Mazdas were still the best AWDs on display."

http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/2016-mazda-cx-3-and-cx-5-awd-review-snow-test-39534

Where I've found the CX-5 to really shine is on really slippery ice, especially clean slick ice near the freezing point, a condition that is death to vehicles with clunky AWD systems. The CX-5 tracks straight and true, corners with authority and is easy to keep pointed in the right direction even when every tire is barely getting grip. I've driven Subaru's that would go into a slide for no apparent reason other than it was really slick. You would be surprised how many vehicles fail miserably in this somewhat common and potentially deadly condition. Don't get me wrong, the CX-5 AWD also performs well in deep snow too but that's a condition that has less differentiation between AWD vehicles because it is not as demanding. Even my 2010 F-150 4x4 does passably well in deep snow. The CX-5 does better than the big truck, right up to the point that it's plowing a furrow because it's too deep (the F-150 has more ground clearance).

I'm confident the Mazdas would have dominated even more thoroughly had conditions been more challenging (warmer) and had there been black ice near the freeze point available for comparison testing.

What I find utterly ridiculous are the videos posted here of Jeeps rooting through deep, light powder (yes, the CX-5 can do this too).
That tells you as much about it's performance driving under severe winter conditions as looking at the cover of a book tells you how good the book is. Only a complete snow driving newbie would be impressed by deep light powder. I've driven the CX-5 through much more demanding conditions (8" of wet heavy snow on top of old, re-frozen ice). The CX-5 was like a tractor. Wet snow not only offers much less traction but also requires more energy to get through. Every time I let my foot off the accelerator, the CX-5 ground to an instant halt. When I would step on the throttle it would lurch forward with authority. It's utterly ridiculous that people who have never driven the CX-5 under winter conditions love to "predict" how it will perform. I've driven mine through three winters and am in the middle of my fourth. I've been held up by yahoos in Jeep Cherokees (twice, and on a plowed road, no less) who thought their AWD would be so good they didn't need winter rubber but I've not even come close to having an issue in my CX-5.

It's beyond my comprehension why people with no experience think their opinion is valuable to others.

 

[MikeM.]

Violence is not the golden standard. I don't know where you heard that, or how you came to that conclusion, but it is unequivically false. Violence begets violence, it doesn't solve long problems or earn you respect. If it did, the middle east would be the shining beacon of the world. Violence is cheap, and doesn't require much. It's why our "enemies" utilize it.

Absolutely, and well put. But you are wasting your breath. How far do you think you would get trying to have a reasonable discussion with the anti-government militants involved in the recent Oregon standoff? Not very far.

That's why the judge is refusing bail and having them remain in prison!

 

[vroom]

In the world of physics, I think you are correct. In the dynamics of the 'real world', though, I don't think it works like that. At least, when I purposefully put my Jeep in situations where only 1 tire got traction or whatever, it didn't work like that. It worked beautifully. It simply WENT. At least, as fast as it could with only 1 tire getting traction and the ECU dumbing it down so no spin occurred.

I learned a long time ago that physics and books do not supersede the real world all the time. They simply model the real world, and when there is a disparity, the model must be adjusted, not the real world, so to speak.

I'm a physicist, so I am acutely aware of the differences between text books and the real world. Although these differences usually occur in novel/complex theories like String Theory, the Standard Model of particle physics and cosmology. Unless you are moving near the speed of light or are the size of an atom, there have been no noted disparities between Newtonian physics and how the real world works in nearly 300 years.

Chances are the disparities are between your understanding of physics and how you perceive the real world works. Maybe your Jeep could in theory send 100% torque to one wheel (I have no idea, I have no knowledge of how the system works), but it is highly unlikely it ever would. Not even close. As mentioned, you would just spin in circles, and yes, that would be in the real world. Good thing a zero friction scenario just does not exist to mandate such a silly torque distribution!

BTW, I do drive on snow and slick ice on a daily basis. I even tried to gun it a few times just to see how it would behave. The result is very similar to the Jeep videos you posted.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

No, but is that your mom?

Lol. This that picture minus the pizzahhut showed up on an awd facebook page and had a shitstorm of comments then someone added the pizza hut and I thought about the jeep posting here

 

[rwortman]

I just finished driving my CX-5 50 miles in snow. Not deep, just enough to slick up the road. It's been a light winter so far. I was fairly impressed. I expected the 4wd system to work well but I was unsure about the Pirelli Scorpion winter tires I put on it. They don't tout the magic ice traction that Michelin and Bridgestone do for the "ice and snow" tires. These are compromised towards decent handling on dry roads. The dry road handling isn't much different than the stock tires and road noise is only a bit more. Snow traction was much better than I expected. If it wasn't as good as teh Blizzaks I had on my Honda it wasn't far off. I had to drive around an Volvo Cross Country wagon spinning all 4 of its crappy all season tires on a slight grade and it didn't feel that slick to me. And yes I called it 4wd. My car has 4 wheels, therefore it has 4 wheel drive. The AWD/4WD distinction is a false one created by Audi and a bunch of car magazine writers. Full-time, part time, on demand, if ya gots 4 wheels, it's 4 wheel drive.

I have driven all kinds of vehicles in the snow including two wheel ones. Rear drive is easier than front drive because it is more instinctive. Front drive has marginally better traction in a front engined vehicle but the driving dynamics when the thing starts to slide can be a bit strange. My Audi 4000 would swap ends like a 60's 911 if you jumped out of the gas after it started to slide the front.

 

[Lbear]

Violence is not the golden standard. I don't know where you heard that, or how you came to that conclusion, but it is unequivically false. Violence begets violence, it doesn't solve long problems or earn you respect. If it did, the middle east would be the shining beacon of the world. Violence is cheap, and doesn't require much. It's why our "enemies" utilize it.

Correct. Violence = death.

Hitler believed violence was the gold standard and 50 million people died within the 6 years of WWII. Nothing was accomplished except death, destruction and suffering.

I think Unobtanium really needs professional counseling to resolve some anger issues

 

[MikeM.]

I think Unobtanium really needs professional counseling to resolve some anger issues

You think? You've been a forum member since 2008 and you are just now figuring this out?

I have serious concerns about anyone who measures discretionary income in terms of how much extra ammunition it could purchase.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

I believe on multiple occasions, you have used your age as a grandstand for your opinions having merit over mine.
I also recall a comment about how you "pay more taxes than I make income" or something of the nature.
So, respectively, I'd call that an insult...or we could just call it fact. In which case, all sorts of unsavory "facts" can be bandied about, of course, but we both know it was intended as an insult.
I also believe you once resulted to insulting AR, people from AR, etc.

You also seem to be infatuated with the idea that I must be drunk when I point these things out. I think the last ETOH I had was Jager, and I only had a few shots. It did wonders for my sinuses, actually, old wive's tale or not.

So please, don't act all "I didn't do nuffn'" over it, now. I'm a dick to you because you are someone that I would treat like a dick in real life, and unless I'm quite wrong, there isn't a damn thing you could do about it to my face other than try to think of something wittier to say (but again...it's the internet, and I'm not for internet tough-guy-ing so much, so it's just petty banter, really).

So again, to the original question: Yes. I do treat people like MikeM. like this in person, as well. You will also find that other than the occasional poking fun at Chris for having a desire to mod a CX-5 like a sports car, I don't really act a dick to anyone else on this forum. Hence, accurately: Yes, I CAN be this way in person if you bring it out in me, just like I can online.

Also, yes, he asked a pointed question, and got a pointed answer, MikeM. It's called being honest with yourself, and owning who and what you are. Where you're concerned, yes, I'm a dick. In person, online, whatever.

My cx-5 will run circles around anyone else here though. Just saying. And I still have the utility I bought it for that I wouldn't get in a mazda 6, and having a unique cx-5 to boot.

 

[rwortman]

My cx-5 will run circles around anyone else here though. Just saying. And I still have the utility I bought it for that I wouldn't get in a mazda 6, and having a unique cx-5 to boot.

Got any actual dyno runs or timed acceleration runs to back that up? Lot's of aftermarket mod's make more noise but fail to deliver on advertised performance gains. As far as suspension, my CX-5 rides exactly stiff enough. Lower/stiffer would make it unpleasant to drive on New England roads. Dropped suspensions sometimes have camber and ackerman angle issues that make them handle worse than stock in skidpad/road course testing as well. Most of the time spending money to make a slow car or bike faster results in you owning something unique and adds to pride of ownership but turns out to be more expensive than just buying a faster car to start with. Drop 10 grand in performance mods on a CX-5 and you get something a stock Ford Edge Sport will walk off and leave in nice factory warranteed style. I see Harley guys spending that amount to hop up their bikes and they end up with something a stock 600cc sport bike will leave for dead. Your CX-5 looks very sharp but I wouldn't trade if for my stocker if I have to drive 1000 miles in it. I ride motorcycles. Any car I could possible afford feels like it's dragging a tugboat anchor in comparison anyway. I have a nice, reasonably comfortable touring bike that will do 10.8 in the quarter mile, 0-60 in 2.9 seconds and tops out around 155. An extra 20 to 30hp in my Mazda ain't going to make it feel quick enough to be worth voiding my warranty. Another 100, maybe but then we are getting into "blow it up and fix it often" territory and I need to drive to work every day. I would be better off trading it in on that Edge.

 

[Unobtanium]

You think? You've been a forum member since 2008 and you are just now figuring this out?

I have serious concerns about anyone who measures discretionary income in terms of how much extra ammunition it could purchase.

Because you're a liberal, Mike. You can only conseptualize firearms being used for illicit things, it seems.

Anger issues? Consider that I deal with situations on a daily basis that I'm betting 99% of you on here would either end up crying your eyes out (I'm sorry your husband of 40 years just died...), getting in a fight over (you ********, you can't keep me here! *postures and advances*), or absolutely locking up and sitting there with your thumb in your arse (walks into a room and observes the sternum ripped open accompanies by sucking noises). Yet...somehow. ..magically. ..I always manage to control the situation calmly and without anyone getting into a fight. For the last half decade plus...pretty good for someone with anger issues, huh? But of course I'm betting the most stressful things most of you deal with at work are office drama, safety check lists, or project deadlines. Of course, some of you may have jobs similar to mine, and I think then yiu can relate and I bet you will begrudgingly admit that anger issues likely aren't something I suffer from. Apparently I know how to solve complex real world problems without using violence quite well...but one more than one occasion, the drugged up and or mentally disturbed have decided thay they did not want to push an issue BECAUSE of the implied threat of violence (if I hit this guy...he's going to make life bad real fast). Because yes, at its base core , all humans understand might makes right. When all the laws are stripped, and all the right and wrong is gone...it's about who's bringing more to the table. Thay is why we have Code White...show of force...it's not about the threat of a debate or chess team...it's about the primal understanding of the golden standard.

Now, back to your opinion of violence being the gold standard....You like to think thay it's not. Thats fine. The police and military exist, so you can continue to believe your fantasies while they do the heavy lifting. The fact that you actually belive as yiu do is a testimony to how well they do their jobs. The rancher situation that Mike brings up, is also interesting. Violence indeed was proven out as the gold standard, once again, there...or do you think they talked all those ranchers into jail? No weapons or burly guys present...just someone orating. No...I doubt it. Violence and the threat thereof is what brought peace back to that situation.

Believe as you will, but thus world ain't so pretty as some of you think, and you owe people who do the heavy lifting so yiu can pretend it doesn't happen a thankyou.

*if anything makes me want to be violent, it's autocorrect that cannot spell, and tiny keys,lol!

 

[Unobtanium]

Correct. Violence = death.

Hitler believed violence was the gold standard and 50 million people died within the 6 years of WWII. Nothing was accomplished except death, destruction and suffering.

I think Unobtanium really needs professional counseling to resolve some anger issues

I'm guessing you think our police would be fine without pepper spray, batons, or firearms, and thay we should disband our military, as well...yes? Also, let me ask, since you don't believe in violence, what is your recourse if someone breaks into your home or attacks you?just let it happen? Or call the police and hope they get there in time to do what you won't, and then condemn them for it? I would like to know how you forsee yourself actually living out your beliefs.

 

[Unobtanium]

I was referring to the most current Skyactiv diesel that is available in the CX5 and Mazda 6 in other countries. Mazda rumored that it would be available in the U.S. for a few years but that never came to fruition and some speculate it was because it coildnt pass U.S. emissions.

I just hope that the rumored rotary doesn't follow the same fate.

If anything, I think mpg standards and emissions are what would kill it, for sure.

 

[Unobtanium]

Got any actual dyno runs or timed acceleration runs to back that up? Lot's of aftermarket mod's make more noise but fail to deliver on advertised performance gains. As far as suspension, my CX-5 rides exactly stiff enough. Lower/stiffer would make it unpleasant to drive on New England roads. Dropped suspensions sometimes have camber and ackerman angle issues that make them handle worse than stock in skidpad/road course testing as well. Most of the time spending money to make a slow car or bike faster results in you owning something unique and adds to pride of ownership but turns out to be more expensive than just buying a faster car to start with. Drop 10 grand in performance mods on a CX-5 and you get something a stock Ford Edge Sport will walk off and leave in nice factory warranteed style. I see Harley guys spending that amount to hop up their bikes and they end up with something a stock 600cc sport bike will leave for dead. Your CX-5 looks very sharp but I wouldn't trade if for my stocker if I have to drive 1000 miles in it. I ride motorcycles. Any car I could possible afford feels like it's dragging a tugboat anchor in comparison anyway. I have a nice, reasonably comfortable touring bike that will do 10.8 in the quarter mile, 0-60 in 2.9 seconds and tops out around 155. An extra 20 to 30hp in my Mazda ain't going to make it feel quick enough to be worth voiding my warranty. Another 100, maybe but then we are getting into "blow it up and fix it often" territory and I need to drive to work every day. I would be better off trading it in on that Edge.

This x100! But Chris is happy, and he stimulates the economy, so I can't really knock it too much.

 

[Unobtanium]

Absolutely, and well put. But you are wasting your breath. How far do you think you would get trying to have a reasonable discussion with the anti-government militants involved in the recent Oregon standoff? Not very far.

That's why the judge is refusing bail and having them remain in prison!

...that's why violence as the ultimate golden standard is what ended up being what brought things to an end...because some people can't be reasoned with. Your post is a great example of what I'm getting at, Mike. You just can't see the forest for the trees, there, it seems.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

Well I like being able to feel the road and engine (not a pothole), much like feeling the flight controls and the forces on them when I'm in a small plane. Driving is an enjoyment for me (I usually take the long way, or go to the store further from my house), so I would not want to drive an unconnected or poorly handling car that I would literally get bored driving (I dislike being a passenger in anything). The least connected physically part of the car is the transmission simply because it's automatic, which I definitely make the most of; you have to. "D" will not get you the most from this engine. A dropped suspension on this car and uncorrected will leave you about 1-1.5 deg off for most. Without going as low as me even (say H&R spring), 1 degree I'd say. The roads around here are relativity good and pretty much all of the highways are newly paved or being redone (some with 70-75 speed limit and 85 if you go up north a little). The good thing about this platform is the chassis is shared with mz3 and 6.. cars used in competition racing (v8 races and more). Aftermarket bits are available and the chassis is accepting of mods. The more I dial in the suspension (which it's not yet, i don't even have my rear camber arm on, I don't have my front sway bar on, and I never got an alignment after putting my coilovers on because I had to learn the settings the hard way lol and these tires are going to go away soon) the more satisfied I am with the cornering capability of this car, especially when dropping gears for AWD. Motor isn't the strongest, but is way more capable at highway speeds than my 2.p0op ever was, and I can get decent passing power pass 80mph (I live in tx). + a turbo kit is coming out (and I am building my own in the meantime). The edge sport starts over 12-15g's more compared to an awd cx-5; it's not even a cross shop lol, not to mention I personally don't nor have I ever liked how the edge looks (or the current gen Escape for that matter). And no, I don't have dyno run for the tune (the other mods are mostly aesthetic without the tune anyways), but plenty of others with the same motor do (considering I was the first to dump a 2.5 ECU, and have the oldest OVtune on a 2.5) and they have shown solid gains on stock engine with pump gas (vs e85 which you can get tuned for). But I also don't need to spend $100 for a dyno run(s) to recognize where I am getting power in a gear/rpm range that I was getting very little before. I don't plan on buying a dyno run until I'm ready to get a baseline after I install and start tuning my turbo. A tune isn't necessarily about getting a faster 0-60 as it is getting higher performance throughout the power band. We are talking an NA engine here. Since I've owned a cx-5 of both motors since 2012, I can tell what is making a difference and what is not motor and suspension wise and for those going that route, there are plenty of legit mods.

 

[Unobtanium]

There are two opposing thoughts going on here. In your first paragraph you describe how you don't like "bullies" but in your second paragraph you describe yourself as a bully.

Violence is not the golden standard. I don't know where you heard that, or how you came to that conclusion, but it is unequivically false. Violence begets violence, it doesn't solve long problems or earn you respect. If it did, the middle east would be the shining beacon of the world. Violence is cheap, and doesn't require much. It's why our "enemies" utilize it.

The secret service, or any branch of police within the US is not a "pro-violence" organization, as you implied (and please, this is not an invitation to discuss the recent media coverage about police). The secret service's mission is to protect the president, not to conduct violence on the presidents behalf. If they did, the secret service would be murdering citizens within the street, they don't.

I respond to one form of bullying with another, yes. I turned the other cheek in middle scholl, growing up in a very authoritarian household, and I learned that it only works in story books. Over match is how you achieve peace.

Lets use the middle east as an example. Ever since Sadam was leveled, more and more violent radical factions have sprang up. Why? Because a violent sociopath was not available with a much larger army to keep them from it.

Why do people not attack the president? Well, one reason is the threat of immediate violence from the secret service. They do indeed use violence as the ultimate threat to protect the safety of the president.

People think violence as the golden standard means going on a rampage. Nothing of the sort. Those are the people we need to worry about, imo. No, violence is simply the last resort of aany encounter, but it's one that colors the entire interaction.

Example: skinny Crack head is detained by small female officer with no weapons...
Example: skinny Crack head is detained by large male officer with pistol on his belt...

Which example is east likely to involve the officer being attacked? Why?

From second 1, that criminal is assessing the odds. Violence is the golden standard here...can I take him/her? Will they hurt me and arrest me anyway...?

If all of this is foreign to you, then I digress. You don't deal with violent drug addicts and sociopaths regularly. I do.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

This x100! But Chris is happy, and he stimulates the economy, so I can't really knock it too much.

Yea you are right, because I have spent the 12-15g's in my car that one might spend when buying an Edge sport with top line equipment. Most of that is a **** premium just for the motor, then over $3500 for "GT" spec equipment. In the end you're still comparing a car that costs upwards of 50% more. Even a set of entry level coilover, a sway bar and adjustable endlinks run <$1500; and that doesn't mean the car is sedan low. Turbo is an option, not cheap but still cheaper. But that's not the point because who is looking at a $32k CX-5 and a $44k Edge. If that's the case the guy looking at an Edge might as well buy a Porsche Mecan.. They only start about 10k more and surprise, even better performance.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

On that note, If i bought and edge I'd lower it too simply because I'd rather trade the unneeded ground clearance for a lower cg

 

[Unobtanium]

Yea you are right, because I have spent the 12-15g's in my car that one might spend when buying an Edge sport with top line equipment. Most of that is a **** premium just for the motor, then over $3500 for "GT" spec equipment. In the end you're still comparing a car that costs upwards of 50% more. Even a set of entry level coilover, a sway bar and adjustable endlinks run <$1500; and that doesn't mean the car is sedan low. Turbo is an option, not cheap but still cheaper. But that's not the point because who is looking at a $32k CX-5 and a $44k Edge. If that's the case the guy looking at an Edge might as well buy a Porsche Mecan.. They only start about 10k more and surprise, even better performance.

I'm not pimping the Edge, I think the base mustang motor is nice, but for the money spent? Heck no! GLK350 2013 would cost you $30-35K FULLY loaded, lightly used (30k miles or so), and tear the Edge Sport up like a soft dinner roll.

No, as much as I hate Chrysler, I'm pretty bent on buying an SRT8 Jeep Grand Cherokee after I pay my CX-5 off. Why? because reliability is much less a concern when it's not your daily, and it's a ridiculously awesome SUV, and I have gotten spoiled by the space and AWD offered by SUV's.