Kill your Turkey V.2

[Fire_Brand]

Sorry for the long first post... I've been lurking for about a week trying to "kill my turkey" but I'm pretty stumped at the moment and was hoping to get some advice.

I just bought a MSP and immediately wanted to "fix" the compressor surge. After reading this thread and talking with someone at Cork Sport I decided to go with the turbosmart kompact dual port BOV/BPV unit. I ordered a 20mm unit but was mistakenly sent the 25mm unit, I fit this unit to reduced diameter hoses to fit the stock ports on either end but I wanted to know if I should just return it and go for the 20mm unit (not my main problem but worth mentioning right away in case it matters).

With this unit installed I'm still getting compressor surge no matter how I adjust the unit (fully hard, or fully soft, in between) and honestly don't notice much difference. Because of this I would assume that going to the 20mm unit wouldn't correct the problem. Reading this thread it seems that increasing the diameter to 1"/25mm has corrected the compressor surge problem for others, and I could increase the connection sizes on either end to match the 25mm unit since I happened to get it anyway. Can I simply modify my current parts to fit, or would I need to replace anything it is connected to?

If this helps anyone diagnose my issue the modifications currently being run on my MSP are an Injen cold air intake and a unichip performance chip with the boost set to around 9psi (this is what the previous owner told me, I don't have a boost gauge to confirm). And, like I said earlier I am attempting to fit a turbosmart kompact dual port BOV/BPV unit to correct the compressor surge problem. Another important thing to note is that the Injen air intake has an aluminum tube to connect to the bypass valve that is fixed at 20mm. I could have this trimmed off right at the unit and have a 25mm tube welded in place but this would be pretty expensive (I don't have the tools or skills to do this myself). The charge pipe side is plastic so I'm not sure if the current port is friction fit in or if I'd have to replace the whole charge pipe. I guess my main point is, would increasing the diameter correct the problem or would this really not make a difference?

I also saw BOV controllers on turbosmart's website which seem like they are built to correct this problem. But it also seems like a pretty hefty investment I'd like to avoid if I can correct the compressor surge without it.

Sorry for all the questions! I've definitely got a lot to learn.

 

[Bonks]

25mm + through the whole system is best. no bov needed

 

[hornsfan10609]

You need to upgrade your charge piping and install the BOV on the cold pipe before the MAF sensor. You will get turkey with the stock sized plumbing for the BPV.

 

[Fire_Brand]

You need to upgrade your charge piping and install the BOV on the cold pipe before the MAF sensor. You will get turkey with the stock sized plumbing for the BPV.

It sounds like keeping the 25mm unit will be better. Where can I get an aftermarket charge pipe? Googling it turns up aftermarket pipes but I'm assuming they'll still have the standard 20mm nipple coming off.

I've called a bunch of shops in my area but none seem to do this kind of work and/or can't modify a plastic charge pipe.

 

[Fire_Brand]

I'm still curious as to what you guys would recommend doing/what aftermarket hot pipes people use that has a 1" port, but would it work to just join an aftermarket T pipe and couple that into the stock hot pipe? I know the stock pipe isn't silicone but I'm guessing I could still seal it to a silicone hose joiner with a pipe clamp.

Another more jury-rigged option that crossed my mind is to just cut a hole in the side of the hot pipe and clamp + glue a saddle tap to the side. I know this is a pretty bad option... But I also know a saddle tap can handle pretty high pressures when used in a plumbing environment so the pressures experienced in a turbo seem well within its application.

If I can get a new hot pipe (with 1" port) for around $150 I'd take that route, but much more than that and it wouldn't be worth it to me. I feel like a good silicon saddle tap securely attached could be a workable solution.

I really just want to know my options and the relative costs and work involved in each. If the stock hot pipe weren't a thin plastic I would honestly go straight for the T Pipe since that would get me where I want to go with a little effort but the least cost. I'm worried that if I cut the pipe it would always be leaky even with a good hose clamp.

 

[hornsfan10609]

Most people get the ebay FMIC kit and buy a pipe with a flange so they can install whatever aftermarket BOV they like. That's really the only way to do it, you an upgrade to an FMIC or use the hard pipes for the stock or upgraded SMIC

 

[Fire_Brand]

I thought I would give everyone an update in case people are interested.

After seeing what options were out there I decided to just spend extra money and got the corksport silicone intercooler pipes. I know this isn't ideal for heat exchange when compared to aluminum but I wanted confidence in the fit for this and I also liked that these would be easier to splice in a silicone T-Pipe to fit the larger BOV/BPV I purchased.

I spliced in a T-Pipe with a 25mm port onto the new cold pipe and installed a 25mm Kompact Dual Port BOV/BPV directly onto the pipe. I already have an injen cold air intake installed in the vehicle but this only has a 20mm return. I used a tapered silicone pipe to match the 25mm BPV unit to the 20mm return, my theory being that since it has the BOV as well the volume out is less important than the volume in since it will likely be able to dump faster anyway.

Taking the car out for a test drive I'm mostly satisfied with the results. At high boost the turkey is completely absent and I get a nice "PSSHHHHH" sound, but I still get a distinct turkey during low boost. I wish I only had the PSSHHH sound but it is much better than before. A bigger issue I'm having now is a huge drop off in RPM's when letting off the throttle after boost.

Reading through the trouble shooting guides this seems like it could be a few things. First I could have a leak in the system which is possible but unlikely, second the BOV/BPV could be set too soft which is possible and I plan to test today (but the harder I set it the more turkey I get which would be disappointing), and third I hear a lot of people need to relocate their MAF. If it is the third option that would be pretty disappointing because the MAF has already been relocated to accommodate the CAI. While I am getting a huge drop in RPM's the car isn't actually stalling, it just nearly stalls and then revs back up before returning to idle.

Would moving the BOV/BPV from the hot pipe to the cold pipe (as I did) require me to again relocate or remap the MAF?

 

[Fire_Brand]

Also one other question. For those of you that have replaced the intercooler pipes what did you do with the vacuum solenoid? The stock pipes have a bracket that it is secured to but there is no bracket on the replacements. I really don't like the idea of it flopping around the engine compartment but there isn't a lot of room to find a place to secure it.

 

[hornsfan10609]

Just relocate the MAF after the BOV, the car will run far better. The purge solenoid can just hang, I zip tied mine to the brake lines on the firewall

 

[ZealoustheEnder]

The turkey died on my speed when I dedicated the line off the intake to the bpv only. The line is no longer connected to my wastegate.
Moving you maf from what I understand will help with your rpm drop. I have the ingen cia and was just going to use a piece of aluminum pipe in place of the maf if you have an aluminum pipe to your throttle body just yet the section you remove. The you just need to silicone couplers. Most people zip tie that vac solenoid somewhere.

Sent from my HTC Desire 626s using Tapatalk

 

[polaris]

Just relocate the MAF after the BOV, the car will run far better. The purge solenoid can just hang, I zip tied mine to the brake lines on the firewall

I concur. Even with the dual port BPV/BOV, if any charge air is vented to atmosphere after the MAF, the car will dump in gas for air that never reaches the TB. This makes for an extremely rich A/F mixture and subsequent hesitation. Moving the MAF to behind the BPV/BOV mostly eliminates this problem. Then adding a SSAFC or Unichip (I think theres a few other A/F controller options out there) will fix the naturally rich running stock tune.

 

[Fire_Brand]

I concur. Even with the dual port BPV/BOV, if any charge air is vented to atmosphere after the MAF, the car will dump in gas for air that never reaches the TB. This makes for an extremely rich A/F mixture and subsequent hesitation. Moving the MAF to behind the BPV/BOV mostly eliminates this problem. Then adding a SSAFC or Unichip (I think theres a few other A/F controller options out there) will fix the naturally rich running stock tune.

I appreciate the advice from everyone! I also already have a unichip installed on my MSP so hopefully that is helping a bit with the rich condition (though I realize the issue with the BOV now).

My issue now is I'm using the corksport silicone intercooler pipes in order to splice in a T-Pipe part way through on the cold pipe and now with that done I'm not sure there is enough room/a straight stretch that is long enough to fit the MAF after the BOV/BPV.

I think instead I'm going to just put the blanking plug into the BOV portion and go full BPV and increase the diameter of the re-circulation tube going back to the intake to 25mm to match the BPV. This will be a pretty simple and inexpensive fix though I'm kind of guessing that the Turkey will return in full force and I'll just have to live with it. A bit of a bummer after investing this much to try and kill it!

I'll let everyone know how this works in case people are interested.

 

[polaris]

Funny thing is; if you stick with the MSP, you will eventually get tired of the SMIC and it's limitations and/or shenanigans and move to a FMIC (which gives you a lot more room to get your charge system right). Then you'll kick yourself in the ass for not doing it sooner. I went through the same thing you are. In the end, I moved my MAF and went with a FMIC and a VTA BOV and Im running 9 psi...and still got the turkey.

Gobble Gobble

 

[Fire_Brand]

Funny thing is; if you stick with the MSP, you will eventually get tired of the SMIC and it's limitations and/or shenanigans and move to a FMIC (which gives you a lot more room to get your charge system right). Then you'll kick yourself in the ass for not doing it sooner. I went through the same thing you are. In the end, I moved my MAF and went with a FMIC and a VTA BOV and Im running 9 psi...and still got the turkey.

Gobble Gobble

Seriously? After reading the initial post I had some hope in fixing it but I feel like the further I get the more money I've thrown away for nothing. Maybe some day I'll do the intercooler but that will be awhile.

As an update to my car I installed the blanking plug to make the valve by-pass only but sadly my car is still stalling. I don't have room to do a MAF relocate without moving the BPV back to the hot pipe so I'm pretty hesitant to do this because I don't want to hack up my intercooler pipes even more (or live with the stock 20mm outlet).

So another full description quick: right now I'm running the Turbosmart Kompact Dual Port BOV/BPV I have it set two turns away from full hard and I'm running it bypass only. The valve is connected directly off the cold pipe at full volume (25mm) but the re-circulation tube running back to my intake is only 20mm. I assumed that beside being on the cold pipe this would pretty much run like the stock setup... but it doesn't. It may be worth noting that even in full BPV mode I'm sometimes getting a clean PPSSHHH and no turkey. But this is about 1 out of 10 times.

Would increasing the diameter of the re-circulation tube to 25mm make the problem better or worse? I've seen in other threads that it really is just the increased volume that alone that can cause the stalling issues. I'm kicking myself a bit at this point because I still have the turkey and now I've added stalling issues.

 

[hornsfan10609]

If you relocate the MAF you won't have stalling issues, it's easiest just to buy the ebay piping kit and get a short pipe with whatever flange you need for your BOV. I don't have turkey on either of my MSPs with both a real HKS and a knock-off Ebay HKS SSQV BOV, both are setup VTA.