Man, Canadians are bringing home the bacon!!
2016 CX5, Cherokee or???
- Thread starter mazdaspd96
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Man, Canadians are bringing home the bacon!!
dragonteeth
Member
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- '15 CX-5 Touring AWD w/ Bose ★
Culture, aesthetics, the Wrangler being the only one in its "class", etc. I don't understand it either.
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- RDX Aspec Adv.
Why did I buy a Jeep? Honestly, it was the only SUV that met my criteria. I bought a 2010 Grand Jeep Cherokee with the 5.7 and HEMI. Here was my rationale:
-It was the right size of vehicle.
-I liked the looks.
-The HEMI is in police cars all across the country, and works fine (and mine did).
-The 545RFE is in a TON of trucks, and works fine (Mine worked okay, except it leaked like a sieve even AFTER it was "fixed" which involved the Jeep dealer pulling it and having my Jeep for a week. Oh, and when I texted the service contact "Hi, I wanted to check on my Jeep, how is it going?", she texted back (and this is standard to text, she gave me the shop phone number and told me to text for updates), "Slowly." Lol...a clue!).
-The QDII truly is an amazing AWD system.
-The HEMI motivated it VERY well. I was pulling 0-60 times in the 6.5 second range. 0-80 in 10 seconds. That's really NOT bad for an SUV... (My CX-5 is in the 7.8 and 14 second range, per my watch as well as professional testing.)
But what went wrong? s*** just fell apart. It was terrible. Now I drive a slightly smaller CX-5, which doesn't look as good to me (although it's growing on me), which is slower (by about 1 second 0-60), but the mileage I get, and the amazing intuition that the 6-speed auto has, and the Mazda relibility that I expect make me very happy to be in my CX-5.
However, my Jeep had AWESOME features. Remote start. Heated second row seats. NAV that didn't require me to buy another $500 module, 110 volt outlet in the cabin so I can run a laptop or whatever, QDII AWD (it could send 100% of torque to any 1 tire at any time automatically, and the low-range allowed me to lock the front and rear diff with ELSD's). It blows my CX-5 out of the water for features per dollar (MSRP was only about $12K higher).
Again though...none of this counted when it kept falling apart.
However, the ONE aspect of the CX-5 that I am very nervous about is the AWD system. It seems very limp-wristed compared to my Jeep, or a Subaru or Audi. I don't want to stump hump in the thing, I am just worried about snow and ice. I've seen youtube videos of the CX-5 not even being able to keep all 4 tires spinning on wet grass/hills, and that makes me very nervous. Will it make it up snowy mountains like I need it to on all-season SUV tires like my Jeep did? I hope so...but I'm nervous. That is literally the only thing I am second guessing about my CX-5.
Anyway, that's why I bought a Jeep, oh, and the whole "It won't happen to me" syndrome. Yeah. Mine was going to be a good one. That bad CR rating stuff is just for other people. Yeah...
As to culture, it had ZERO to do with it. I don't even know any other Jeep owners, and most of them I have met in passing (aside from the SRT guys, who simply bought because FAST SUV! and they like American Iron) were douche bags that I wouldn't want to get to know.
I've been driving all kinds of cars/trucks in the North Cascades year round for over 30 years and the CX-5 excels in the mountain snow/ice. Last winter was the lowest snow year in almost 100 years of records but my CX-5 saw plenty of snow/ice over the previous two winters. The North Cascades are real mountains with average annual snowfall of over 50 feet/year. Stuff get's buried real fast around here. Snow builds up so fast the plows have to run continuously and they still can't keep up. This isn't the easy dry snow with high traction more typical in the Rockies but sloppy, gloppy stuff that brings lesser vehicles to a stop, especially when it turns from raining and wet to freezing and snowing (which is common). Snow on glaze ice. I've seen the "American Iron" 4x4's rendered helpless in a flat parking lot (stuck in a pothole, spinning all four deep lug all-terrain tires and needing a tow), conditions that were child's play for the AWD CX-5 with winter tires. I've climbed steep backcountry roads for miles into the wilderness driving on top of two feet of refrozen snow with narry a slip or spin. It climbs awesome on slippery surfaces. But most cars get into winter trouble, not by failing to make forward progress, but by sliding sideways off the road or failing to stop in a controlled manner. Fortunately, the chassis dynamics, electronic stability and braking capabilities of the CX-5 are such that you won't find many vehicles more capable in the slippery stuff (tires being equal). I guarantee that with equal tires on a steep, curvy and icy road the AWD CX-5 would leave your Jeep Grand Cherokee with it's 5.7L Hemi in the dust (or spindrift as the case would be). And it wouldn't even be a close contest. You wouldn't be calling your Cherokee "Grand" after such a humiliating defeat. Granted, on icy mountain roads in the winter, the 2.0L CX-5 will outperform the 2.5L for numerous reasons. First, the lighter engine will result in a more balanced chassis for avoiding plowing into corners (understeer) and secondly, the lighter rotational mass of the smaller engine will maintain better traction through the shifts. And either car would have more power than could be utilized in low traction conditions like ice. But either version CX-5 would leave your old Jeep far behind in the spindrift in such a race.
Still, if you are serious about driving in real winter conditions, in real mountains, (or even on icy flat highways) I think you would be foolish to not equip your vehicle with winter tires. AWD is not going to help you, even an Audi Quattro sucks on glaze ice or deep, wet slop with all season radials. It's not about the "go" it's about staying safe and being able to maintain directional control while turning and stopping. Yes, a skilled driver can get by in some pretty treacherous conditions but there is often little margin for safety with inferior tires. Winter tires are far, far FAR more important than any AWD system. And if you still don't understand this fact then it can only be due to your relative inexperience driving in winter conditions. If you can't make forward progress due to inferior tires in a AWD CX-5, you have no business being on the road with those tires. There is nothing wrong with the CX-5's AWD system in the slippery stuff, that's precisely what it's designed for.
I think I'll nickname you "Nervous Nellie" if I hear one more time about how "very nervous" you are about the CX-5's AWD system in terms of snow/ice capabilities. Unless Mazda has reduced it's performance since they released it in 2013, there's nothing to be nervous about. The primary limitation of the CX-5 AWD would not come into play while driving on slippery snow/ice but while doing a steep rock climb or driving a loaded vehicle through deep, fine sand such that it requires high rpm's just to maintain forward progress. Under such conditions, and sufficient time, the clutch pack temperature sensors could detect dangerously high temperatures and limit power transfer to the rear wheels to prevent damage to the clutch packs. You might need to wait for the clutch packs to cool off before continuing but I've never seen this happen even in very spirited winter driving while power sliding and drifting corners for 5-10 minutes solid. The AWD just plain works in the slippery stuff (and very well).
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- RDX Aspec Adv.
Well, I just need to experience the AWD system in action I guess. I'm not dogging on it, I simply just don't know what I don't know, about it.
We decided to skip the AWD weight and MPG penalty. Well, mainly because we can. In SE Pennsylvania the roads aren't that bad and in the 8 years I have lived here driving a FWD car with all seasons I've had no issues. The CX5 is my wife's DD so I'll get her snow tires this year for the peace of mind. AWD only advantage in slippery roads is it will help you get going quicker, no advantage in stopping or cornering, that's all tire.
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I've seen lots of issues with FWD cars unable to drive. Spinning their wee tires and sliding backwards down the hill, etc. No go. It's why I got AWD.
Yea that is typically a tire issue. I tend not to go below 4/32 on my tires.
Here is a video that highlights my point.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuE00qdhLA
It's not that simple. On very slippery surfaces the maximum torque bias capability to an individual wheel does not define it's snow and ice capability. It's the speed and sensitivity of that torque bias. On snow and ice nimbleness beats brute force every time. The CX-5 can only transfer up to 50% of the applied torque to the rear wheels but, in the slick stuff, that's all it needs to apply to maintain composure because it does it so quickly and seamlessly. A more heavy handed approach is good under high torque/high traction conditions but has disadvantages under very slippery conditions.
Not expensive AT ALL! Dedicated winter wheels/tires are an upfront cost but they are a much, much bigger improvement than upgrading from FWD to AWD and it's a smaller upfront cost than upgrading to AWD. What's not to like, better performance summer and winter and less cost than AWD. The other fact to consider is your summer tires are not wearing during the snow season so they will not need replacing as soon. In the end, you end up with better performance (both winter and summer because you can run effective summer tires) and save a lot of money vs. AWD. I only purchased AWD because I can afford it and I do A LOT of snow driving in one of the snowiest and most treacherous part of the globe. Even here, speaking only from a practical standpoint, snow tires are necessary (even with 4WD or AWD), AWD is nice but not necessary. And I'm speaking purely from a practical perspective, without regard to State highway laws that are enforced during mountain storm events which can last for days at a time. AWD is of limited functionality compared to a vehicle equipped with winter tires. Please watch the video recently posted. This video accurately depicts EXACTLY what I have spent so many words to try to say.
Granted, you have already purchased AWD without knowing that it costs more and is inferior to having winter/summer tires but you still need winter tires to drive with any measure of safety on icy highways. And this is true no matter how much driver skill you have. Every winter I see hundreds of cars stuck in the parking lot, slid off into the ditch or through the snowbank down the side of the mountain or simply stopped dead in their tracks, unable to make forward progress, holding everybody else up and wondering why their 4WD is not working. These cars off the road, in the ditch, smashed up by the side of the road are ALMOST ALWAYS AWD or 4WD without winter tires (or a car with winter tires that was rammed by a car without winter tires). Hundred of winter deaths every year are caused by drivers who thought winter tires were too expensive and it's not always the cheap driver who dies.
Do you insure your vehicle for collision? What's your deductible? Do you know how much it costs to repair a minor fender bender? Have you ever visited a hospital for a minor injury? What was your out of pocket expense? If you had any experience comparing winter tires to all season tires in actual winter conditions, you would realize how much money winter tires save those who use them (on average) and how much those who don't use winter tires cost those who do (through increased car insurance premiums, medical insurance cost, court costs, law enforcement and fire department expenses, etc.) And this is true even if your winter season is only 2-3 months.
Yes, you have already spent the money on AWD but I'm trying to wrap my head around the thought that you are concerned about your AWD CX-5's snow/ice capability but you think winter tires are too expensive. It makes zero sense.
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AWD with no good contact to the ground (snow tires) is as useless as poop flavor popsicles in winter...sorry for the analogy, but AWD doesn't work and cannot do it's job if you have no traction in winter.
I live in Quebec , I know what I am talking about. I fully agree here with Mike M..
I will add that if you have to choose between FWD with snow tires or AWD with 4 seasons... FWD will win anytime.
I live in Quebec , I know what I am talking about. I fully agree here with Mike M..
I will add that if you have to choose between FWD with snow tires or AWD with 4 seasons... FWD will win anytime.
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I can't count the number of AWD/4WD cars I've seen sliding backwards down the hill, etc. FWD cars are not prone to sliding back down the hill, that's a function of your tires.
In fact, your comment about FWD cars sliding backwards down the hill exposes your lack of experience in winter driving. Because it's almost exclusively AWD/4WD vehicles that slide backwards down the hill. I've been watching this phenomenon for 35 years. At least far more often than FWD vehicles because if the friction of all four tires is so marginal that the brakes cannot hold the vehicle on the hill, then the FWD car would be unable to climb the hill in the first place excepting for whatever momentum it had before the hill started. But I see AWD/4WD vehicles without snow tires slide backwards down the hill ALL THE TIME. It's almost never a FWD vehicle.
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AWD came on the vehicle. It was already there. It was financed with the deal, and arguably costs me $5/mo. Snow tires would be what, $3K for the rims? Or are these cheap rims? I know the rims on my 370Z were $1K a pop, but they were wider. Then the $500 for the tires. That's $3-4K I could do a lot of other stuff with. If I had that kind of money to spend on tires, I'd probably not be driving a CX-5, lol. Most likely some ///M or AMG or something.
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I sat there and watched it happen. I won't say the tires weren't to blame, because I didn't jump out and look at them. All I know is some poor Honda driver was sitting there blocking traffic unable to continue up the hill spinning the front tires while the car slid slowly side to side making zero progress, as it had to be stopped on due to the stop sign/flow of traffic, and it was one frustrated looking driver unable to continue the climb up the hill. My Jeep had no issues.
Not sure where you are getting your numbers from, but I got Infiniti replica alloy rims and tires for my G37X Coupe for a total of $1200 CAD and that is with our 13% sales tax. I could have gotten actual Infiniti rims for a little more then that but seemed like waste of money. On a car like a CX-5 I would just put steel rims on. Should not cost more then $1000 tops. It's only for 4 months, and that is in Canada where things are usually more expensive.
Wow! Your dealer really snookered you if that's how he explained the added cost of AWD.
It doesn't come with the vehicle, it's an added cost option. Specifically, it adds $1250 to the base price of an automatic FWD. A good negotiator can get this discounted slightly but, if you finance the vehicle, the extra interest charges over the term of the loan will add even more cost. But let's be optimistic and call it $1200 extra.
Then over the initial 100,000 miles of ownership you will burn an extra 200+ gallons of fuel. Let's assume gas prices don't increase hardly at all over the first 100,000 miles. Optimistic, I know, but still, that's going to cost you an additional $600 (but probably more).
Then there's tires. They do wear a bit more with AWD. And it's more critical to keep them the same diameter which can get expensive if you get an un-repairable flat tire while you still have 50% tread left. But I'm going to be super optimistic and assume you don't get an un-repairable flat and tires only cost you an extra of $100 over $100,000 miles.
Without even considering extra insurance costs of AWD, we're already up to $1900 more for AWD vs. the same car with FWD.
Tire Rack has these for $570/set of 4:
As you can see, your $3000-$4000 dollars is a gross exaggeration, nothing even close to that. In fact, cheaper than the added expense of AWD. And the tire cost isn't really much of a cost since winter tires extend the life of your summer tires. And don't think these rims won't still be in great demand when it comes time to sell your CX-5.
Your money argument is a red herring.
When I had to deal with winter I was just replacing tires on the same rims. Tire rotation and balancing twice a year was a good thing, smooth ride guaranteed
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The vehicle was what it was. I got it for $21,999. That's 2k below kbb. I got 1k over kbb for my trade. Tire rack rims look like a winner.
Dunno what rims you out on your g37. I had Rays forged on my 370z.
Dunno what rims you out on your g37. I had Rays forged on my 370z.
The only real reason I can't recommend that strategy is that repeated mounting/dis-mounting stresses the bead and could contribute to future failure. Probably not too much concern if done by a skilled tire technician with well maintained equipment (but where can one find that?). Plus, I like to do the changeovers myself, it's much more convenient and I can inspect brakes, CV joint booties, etc. with more care than most tire monkeys care to.
Of course this is a much better solution than driving on icy highways with summer tires.
