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FWD or AWD?
- Thread starter Surfsup
- Start date
I have a real 4WD truck now. I love having 4WD with TOD. Gas mileage blows though. But, I'm an active guy and live in the Chicago area (snow) so I like 4WD to get to work in crappy weather, also to go up/down steep grades around remote lakes that I need access to, etc. I am not sure how FWD would work in these situations.
Gas mileage between FWD vs AWD at $3.75/gal and 15000 m/yr figuring a 35%/65% split is a whopping $150 difference per year in gas cost figuring 2mpg penalty for AWD. Obviously initial cost of entry to AWD is a couple thousand more as well.
Any comments from FWD or AWD owners as to the justification for their choice? I'd love to hear if anyone thinks they should have gotten AWD and why, or if they think AWD is overkill, etc.
So what's the conclusion here, given OP's original post ^....
I already gave the California snow skier/boarders perspective and the value of AWD to avoid chaining up in 98% of "chain controls" situations on highways going to all the major ski resorts.
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OP bought a GT AWD.So what's the conclusion here, given OP's original post ^....
I already gave the California snow skier/boarders perspective and the value of AWD to avoid chaining up in 98% of "chain controls" situations on highways going to all the major ski resorts.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123838522-MPG-Average&p=6272804&highlight=#post6272804
Good choice, being in Chicago-land and wanting a well-equipped CX-5.
If I understand you then, you say a good AWD will be, at least, somewhat safer in certain conditions. But, the CX-5's AWD is not good enough for this purpose.
I mostly agree with that. Only that there is an assumption that we know exactly how the system works in the CX-5 and that it will have no good impact on steering. I have some doubts about this, but I believe it is correct for the most part. Snow tires, if applicable, are far more important definitely.
Yes, increased tire friction/resistance is the cause for slowing down in a curve. The sharper the curve the more pronounced the slow-down.
I mostly agree with that. Only that there is an assumption that we know exactly how the system works in the CX-5 and that it will have no good impact on steering. I have some doubts about this, but I believe it is correct for the most part. Snow tires, if applicable, are far more important definitely.
Yes, increased tire friction/resistance is the cause for slowing down in a curve. The sharper the curve the more pronounced the slow-down.
We do not know how the system works exactly, no. But we know that the AWD only engages when significant slip is detected. In an understeer condition, the slip is mostly lateral (from the wheels perspective: wheels are turned, but the car goes staight), which is more difficult to detect. And even if it does detect it, the slip is already engaged, the front wheels are in a dynamic friction state, and the understeer will be very hard to recover from. That combined with the fact that the AWD is strongly front-wheel biased.
From experience (as mentionned in previous post), the only way to make the back wheels engage in an understeer condition is to jamb the throttle to realy make the front wheels spin. But this becomes a voluntary and conterinuitive maneuver from the driver that most would not do.
I think (personnal opinion here), that the CX-5 AWD was designed to help you get going from a stop on ice or on a slippery hill, period. Any AWD that can help in cornering should probably be engaged 100% of the time and finely monitoring each wheel's movement. Again, not the case for the CX-5. Note that I've never seen Mazda market their AWD system as a safety feature like other manufacturers (usually high end) tend to do... probably for a reason.
From experience (as mentionned in previous post), the only way to make the back wheels engage in an understeer condition is to jamb the throttle to realy make the front wheels spin. But this becomes a voluntary and conterinuitive maneuver from the driver that most would not do.
I think (personnal opinion here), that the CX-5 AWD was designed to help you get going from a stop on ice or on a slippery hill, period. Any AWD that can help in cornering should probably be engaged 100% of the time and finely monitoring each wheel's movement. Again, not the case for the CX-5. Note that I've never seen Mazda market their AWD system as a safety feature like other manufacturers (usually high end) tend to do... probably for a reason.
We do not know how the system works exactly, no. But we know that the AWD only engages when significant slip is detected. In an understeer condition, the slip is mostly lateral (from the wheels perspective: wheels are turned, but the car goes staight), which is more difficult to detect. And even if it does detect it, the slip is already engaged, the front wheels are in a dynamic friction state, and the understeer will be very hard to recover from. That combined with the fact that the AWD is strongly front-wheel biased.
From experience (as mentionned in previous post), the only way to make the back wheels engage in an understeer condition is to jamb the throttle to realy make the front wheels spin. But this becomes a voluntary and conterinuitive maneuver from the driver that most would not do.
I think (personnal opinion here), that the CX-5 AWD was designed to help you get going from a stop on ice or on a slippery hill, period. Any AWD that can help in cornering should probably be engaged 100% of the time and finely monitoring each wheel's movement. Again, not the case for the CX-5. Note that I've never seen Mazda market their AWD system as a safety feature like other manufacturers (usually high end) tend to do... probably for a reason.
Not only do they not market it that way, but here in the southern states the AWD's are fairly uncommon on dealer lots. I see CX5's everyday and I can think of only one recently that had the AWD badge.
I think this assumption is not correct, especially the word 'only'.But we know that the AWD only engages when significant slip is detected.
Following this forum for a while, a thread was discussing monitoring of the signal to the clutch pack which showed that the CX-5 changes engagement constantly throughout the drive (which was all on dry paved road, as far as I remember).
I also know from experience that powering through a sharp turn does feel like some power is sent to the back.
I won't argue with you, since all I have to really on are all those YouTube videos of the CX-5 back wheels engaging after the front wheels slip a few turns. That would be good news, and a link would be even better!
Speaking of links, here's what an expert from popular mechanics has to say:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/...
Pretty much sums up the discussion...
Speaking of links, here's what an expert from popular mechanics has to say:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/...
Pretty much sums up the discussion...
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http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=modelsFeatures&vehicleCode=CX5
"
CX-5's lighter-yet-more-rigid SKYACTIV-Body and SKYACTIV-Chassis give you superior driving performance and responsive handling. Combined with the MacPherson strut front suspension, multilink rear suspension and stabilizer bars, they all work together to conquer even the most challenging roads while delivering excellent ride comfort. To help increase safety and handling in snow, rain or rugged terrain, the available Active Torque Split All-Wheel Drive system uses multiple sensors to continuously monitor the road and actively distribute power to the front and rear wheels as needed.
"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUFUvn_g2Wo
I think that many people think of the Haldex version 1 when they think of simple AWD vehicles. In fact, many of today's AWD are still fairly simple but far better than this v1. Even Haldex v5 is pretty decent and superior to v1.
It is unfortunate, but most makers don't explain how their system works.
Yes, this does not mean the car is invincible by any measure. I view it as small plus in handling, big plus in getting out of the parking lot and, most important for me, ability to drive by Caltrans chain-control station on the last ~30 miles before the ski resort.
"
CX-5's lighter-yet-more-rigid SKYACTIV-Body and SKYACTIV-Chassis give you superior driving performance and responsive handling. Combined with the MacPherson strut front suspension, multilink rear suspension and stabilizer bars, they all work together to conquer even the most challenging roads while delivering excellent ride comfort. To help increase safety and handling in snow, rain or rugged terrain, the available Active Torque Split All-Wheel Drive system uses multiple sensors to continuously monitor the road and actively distribute power to the front and rear wheels as needed.
"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUFUvn_g2Wo
I think that many people think of the Haldex version 1 when they think of simple AWD vehicles. In fact, many of today's AWD are still fairly simple but far better than this v1. Even Haldex v5 is pretty decent and superior to v1.
It is unfortunate, but most makers don't explain how their system works.
Yes, this does not mean the car is invincible by any measure. I view it as small plus in handling, big plus in getting out of the parking lot and, most important for me, ability to drive by Caltrans chain-control station on the last ~30 miles before the ski resort.
It is frustrating that manufacturers don't give more info about their systems. Without revealing the proprietary engineering details, they could at least tell us what it does. I mean, the more you know your car, the better driver you become, right?
As for your last paragraph ALafya, I could not agree more! (I think we were never very far apart in our views anyway)
As for your last paragraph ALafya, I could not agree more! (I think we were never very far apart in our views anyway)
Exactly, my point being that the argument of the FWD biased AWD system loosing control because the front wheels slip before the rear wheels kick in is moot because the stability control is there to help prevent the loss of control. Let me reiterate "help prevent" there, which means it cannot save stupidity.Simple: do what it was designed to do, attempt to stabilize the car when it losses control (by using quick applications of the brakes on individual wheels). Not sure how this should imply that the AWD was designed to do the same...
Disclaimer: I really do not know much about the different AWD systems so take my opinion lightly.
Well then your point is excellent V8toilet. And pretty much what I've been saying all along. If I'm still saying that AWD is not much of a safety feature on post 118, it's to make sure that if someone lands here after googling AWD, they won't think they can use it as an excuse to skimp on actual safety features, drive their car like it's a tank in a snow storm and put our lives in danger.
The reasons listed by CX-SV and Alafya for choosing AWD are completely valid. That does not mean that we can't point out bad reasons too...
The reasons listed by CX-SV and Alafya for choosing AWD are completely valid. That does not mean that we can't point out bad reasons too...
I've driven my CX-5 in lots of atrocious snow storms on mountain roads to ski areas in all kinds of conditions (recently we had over 10 feet of new snow in 10 days) and all I can say is the CX-5 just rocks. I don't need to know the electro-mechanical details of it's AWD and Stability Control to know that it works very well indeed.
And isn't that what matters?
And isn't that what matters?
I've driven my CX-5 in lots of atrocious snow storms on mountain roads to ski areas in all kinds of conditions (recently we had over 10 feet of new snow in 10 days) and all I can say is the CX-5 just rocks. I don't need to know the electro-mechanical details of it's AWD and Stability Control to know that it works very well indeed.
And isn't that what matters?
I feel the same. If another brand has better AWD too me it doesn't matter. If the AWD kicks in when required (and it does) then I'm happy.
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