Burning oil, but where is it going???

[Installshield 2]

I had a KL v6 probe GT before my P5...A bad pcv valve did nearly exactly what you're talking about...the valve would stick completely open, and it would just squirt oil straight into the intake system...$5 fixed it, but it made a complete mess of the intake system...no leaks, no noticeable driving problems...weirdly...but white smoke everywhere under throttle...

you're VC mod sort of addresses this, by blocking the pcv valve some what...but if you're positive your compression is good...the only way to burn that kind of oil with good compression is either improper re-circulation (pcv valve), or the turbo bearing (which you said is new, so not this)...so i'd suggest looking into replacing that valve, its practically free...

lastly...if it comes back...try and get a video of whats coming out of the exhaust...'white' vs. 'blue' vs. 'black' smoke is somewhat subjective in some cases...burning oil, and the smoke because of it...isn't always a vanilla 'white'...and burning coolant very much can cause white'ish exhaust, too...it depends on relative humidity and a whole bunch of annoying other s***...a video with a description of things like relative humidity, was it a completey cold start, ambient temps, etc...should help give you better feedback quickly...

but from what i can tell...something is, or was, pumping pure oil directly into the chambers...which could a be a lot of things...valve seals installed incorrectly, for example...considering your valve cover mod seems to have helped, i'm guessing it had something to do with the pcv system...

 

[im2bad4ya]

YES! you get it! I've upgraded a while back to a brand new Millenia PCV, straight from the dealer, that thing is brand new. I also changed my turbo because the CAI intake pipe was all gunked up with oil so I assumed it was coming from the turbo, not the breather of the valve cover. But I've check the CAI again and it looks clean, no oil residue like I had with the old turbo. After doing more driving today I can say for sure I'm not smoking anymore. I'm gonna inspect the PCV valve to make sure it rattles inside, but either way the valve cover mod did the trick, for certain. But let me just explain all these things so you can get a better idea of how it all came along.

I had the old turbo with a stock exhaust and I burned oil, but didn't notice smoking blowing while driving. Everytime I turned the car on from a cold start I blew white smoke for a few minutes until the engine warmed up, so I diagnosed it as bad valve seals and the cause of my burning oil. I changed out the valve seals and my white smoke at start up went away. But when I checked my oil levels later on I was still loosing it, with no sign of oil leakage.
Here's my contribution to that: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...-1-8-(non-turbo)-valve-stem-seals-replacement

I then inspected my CAI pipe and discovered this: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...WHERE-IS-MY-OIL-GOING&highlight=im2bad4ya+oil
So I went with a new turbo and at the same time got myself a CS catback. I figure I'd kill to birds with one stone and everything will be fixed and done. Okay, so now I have a new T25 with this catback. But now I blow smoke alot, as where I wasn't blowing smoke with my stock exhaust. So I'm back to the drawing board and after doing valve seals and a new turbo, inspecting for leaks everywhere (and even if I had a small leak, my engine wouldn't burn THAT much oil) it was either the valve cover or piston rings. But like I've said, I have normal compression which could only lead to one thing.

So the valve cover mod helped out tremendously, without question. Now time will tell if the oil still disappears or keeps turning black.

 

[Installshield 2]

Cool man, and glad that VC mod thing helped...

High stroke engines like these develop a lot of blow-by, especially when modded with forced induction...but i'm surprised you didn't notice a lot of oily shat around the TB area if it was PCV related...with my KL, the TB was dripping with oil...i can't believe the thing even ran it was so bad...it took a whole weekend to remove everything and soak it down for cleaning...even though the only part replaced was the valve itself.

so i'm glad it helped, but i'm still as lost as you haha.

I know you mentioned it, but you're positive the turbine side of the new turbo is fine, too? the bearing isn't dumping oil into the downpipe or something? The CS exhaust system is cat-less, correct? Without a cat, you may not burn oil inside the exhaust system as easily, so not as much smoke...you could have a few quarts of oil just hanging out in there haha...i'm just shouting ideas at this point, i'd hate to think its fine for now but you find out its something simple...but critical...in either case i'm simply lost as to that not making a major difference to the car's behaviour...if it was something that crazy, it wouldn't drive right...

 

[im2bad4ya]

Alright, after driving for some time, my problem is back. But it's intermittent, it doesn't always smoke, but when it smokes, IT SMOKES. So it leads me to believe it's the valve seals again. Even when I replaced them the first time they were all brown (I think intake only) n probably over time the ones on the exhaust side couldn't take the heat (no pun intended) and opened them up and passing oil through them again. Either way I'm gonna do the head gasket because **** it, if I'm gonna remove the cams and everything else I might as well go all the way.

So if someone can remind me what I need to replace after removing the head from the block, I already have the head gasket and new head bolts. Anything else I need to do this job right?

 

[im2bad4ya]

OK, here's where I'm at:

The months old exhaust seals VS the new ones. Nothing wrong with the old ones. But since I'm pretty sure they're really intake valve seals, I replaced them anyway and I didn't bother switching out the intake valve seals.

Here's the cylinders and head gasket:

The coolant in #4 was just residual that spilled as we removed the head. I'm gonna clean up the carbon, put it back together and see what I get. *fingers crossed* (eekdance)

 

[mikewashere]

your not alone in this ... lol. in the exact same boat, lol. read everything in this thread and having the same issue. Best of luck with it and looking forward to hearing some feedback

 

[CHIQLES]

does anyone have a temperature sensor for there oil? I would like to know where we may stand there. I didnt notice much oil burning if any when I had the 160 temp stat versus now Im running the 180 and I do notice. Just throwing in my2 cents worth of info.

 

[mikewashere]

does anyone have a temperature sensor for there oil? I would like to know where we may stand there. I didnt notice much oil burning if any when I had the 160 temp stat versus now Im running the 180 and I do notice. Just throwing in my2 cents worth of info.

well that's why I thought maybe changing viscosity oil may help in that sense? I know it is a turbo car but to burn this much and for it to be that black after an oil change doesn't seem normal.

 

[im2bad4ya]

Well after changing out both the exhaust seals and head gasket, I've become quite optimistic (cabpatch). So far I'm not blowing any smoke. Got the job finished on Thursday evening and now it's Monday morning and after a half tank of gas (I'd say about 150mi of driving) I haven't blown out smoke like I used to. I'll check my oil level towards the end of the week but it's safe to assume that if I have no smoke, I'm probably not loosing oil.

does anyone have a temperature sensor for there oil? I would like to know where we may stand there. I didnt notice much oil burning if any when I had the 160 temp stat versus now Im running the 180 and I do notice. Just throwing in my2 cents worth of info.

No oil temp gauge, only oil pressure.

 

[Installshield 2]

does anyone have a temperature sensor for there oil? I would like to know where we may stand there. I didnt notice much oil burning if any when I had the 160 temp stat versus now Im running the 180 and I do notice. Just throwing in my2 cents worth of info.

I'm in an NA p5 with no oil cooler and the factory cooling system...so not sure how relevant it is...but i burn less than 1/2 a quart between 5000 mile changes of mobil 1 10w30...engine has roughly 160,000 miles...

Oil temp maintains around 235 to 240 for normal 70 to 75mph cruising...around 225-230 for cruising flat around 60...after oil temp reaches 220, pressure stays dead on 60psi...but only rises to about 65-70 max at red line...

If i'm hard on it (sorry, it hasn't been extremely hot yet, and i just installed the gauges late winter)...i can reach about 255 degrees for the oil, and pressure then sits around 58psi...quickly bouncing back to 60 after the temp drops a little...so far this spring, ambient air temp has had nearly no effect, but i can't be sure until i'm driving with it around 100 outside...70mph in 30 degree weather was still around 240, and same thing when its 80 degrees out...the FS's oil is being cooled more by the coolant circulating through the block it seems, pretty common on iron blocks...at least for common highway speeds...'racing' would be a completely different story...

according to my torque android app (so, according to the factory computer) water temp stays around 188 degrees for cruising...going up to about 205 after prolonged full throttle and higher revs...

its very likely that a MSP during normal cruising keeps oil temps a good 10 to 15 degrees cooler just because of the oil cooler...thats a guess, but given i'm seeing the water temps too, seems realistic...

 

[CHIQLES]

how warm is it. On the highway im at 185 at 65 deg my temps only climb during stop and go traffic.

 

[Installshield 2]

Sorry dude, 198 was a typo on the previous page...avg is more like 188...fixed it...

Last log i did through Torque was today, and it was roughly 70 degrees for most of the 500 mile drive home from Indianapolis...Avg water temp was 188, peak was 194, mpg was 34. Again, thats just what the computer is saying...i don't have an actual water temp gauge other than the factory dummy...and that was lower than previous logs, probably because it was 99% highway driving...it gets a little higher avg temp on the drive to work, as there is a bit more stop and go, with a couple of mountains...So this turned out to be one of the lower water temp averages i've had in a while...but was the biggest drive i'd made with that app, so probably the most accurate for long term...

I'm running a straight 50/50 coolant mix right now...usually run more like 40 coolant/60 water, but it was a painfully cold and long winter...

 

[CHIQLES]

thats sound better i run 50/50 with the lucas coolent additive. I run engine ice through the intercooler and lucas as well. Ive had pretty good temp readings with that combo.

 

[CHIQLES]

as far as oil temps that seems high but im not sure where we are supposed to be i thought it was supposed to be around 215

 

[CHIQLES]

oK so as far as I have read on ther forums 215-250 is ok for oil temps. Installshield said he gets about that but he is N/A if that is correct. So I could imagine we get hotter with the turbo.Eventually oil does break down so I could also imagine that we are loosing oil in that manner. You could imagine that if you donot run regular intervals with your oil change you may be caking the walls of the turbo with oil sludge causing unnessary(I cant spell!!) friction on the bearings causing failure earlier. Now I would like to think that adding a extra oil cooler would work but you would have to know that you are not causing extra pressure loss Through the system. WOW JUST RELIZED WE DONT HAVE A OIL COOLER!! I FEEL DUM.(I dont count that oil spacer plate on the filter as a cooler) Any ways has any ever added a oil cooler any recomendations any positive results?

 

[CHIQLES]

well i saw on othere forums that people do add them but you can either add them inline with the turbo or with the block. The systems maybe a little complicated for my taste. To much to fail to much to watch and when playing with oil your betting the motor. I cant go all in. I rather do more oil changes.

 

[Installshield 2]

I'm assuming, at least for normal highway speeds, an MSP will run a little cooler oil temp wise than an NA car...as the MSP has an oil cooler...under harder driving, the MSP will definitely heat the oil more...but both cars running 70mph at ~3250 rpm...i'd be surprised if the MSP was hotter than an NA engine...

yeah i'm NA by the way, with no oil cooler...and the factory pan and oil pump...V6 filter. temp is measured at the filter with a sandwich block, as is my oil pressure...

 

[PSUENGR]

I'm assuming, at least for normal highway speeds, an MSP will run a little cooler oil temp wise than an NA car...as the MSP has an oil cooler...under harder driving, the MSP will definitely heat the oil more...but both cars running 70mph at ~3250 rpm...i'd be surprised if the MSP was hotter than an NA engine...

yeah i'm NA by the way, with no oil cooler...and the factory pan and oil pump...V6 filter. temp is measured at the filter with a sandwich block, as is my oil pressure...

msp does not have an oil cooler, and it runs hoooottttt! probably the hottest running car I've ever driven.

 

[CHIQLES]

it does run super hot and could be a contributing factor for our problematic coils..

 

[Installshield 2]

msp does not have an oil cooler, and it runs hoooottttt! probably the hottest running car I've ever driven.

wait, what?

All MSP's to my knowledge came with a factory oil cooler, fed by the cooling system, sandwiched between the engine block and oil filter...am i wrong? If you bought a msp that doesn't have this, its most likely something the previous owner removed for some reason...but I'm positive at least 2003 MSP's came with this system...pretty sure 03.5's did too...