What Years Had Cartridge vs Spin-On Oil Filter?

[Silentnoise713]

I recall folks mentioning some years had cartridge oil filters but at some point change to spin-on filter. Can someone confirm what years had which? Also, what year are the oil filters interchangeable with the Focus? I’m looking for an oil filter relocation kit from Trans Dapt and it seems they are easier to find for a Focus and wondering if they are interchangeable. This should go nicely with my Fumoto quick drain valve.

Thanks.

 

[Heat]

I was just looking at cartridge oil filter prices last night. I believe that the date of the switch was June 1, 2009. Anything before had cartridges, anything after had canisters.

So all 2008s and earlier were cartridges, all 2010s and later are canisters. If you have an '09 it depends on the date it was manufactured.

How is that Fumoto quick drain valve working out for you? My only concern is that it looks like the oil would drain slower than just removing the drain plug so I'm worried that a drain with the Fumoto valve not flush everything out.

And speaking of cartridge prices... $8.29 at the dealer (though my local one will sell it to me at 20% off)

I stopped by Autozone:
Bosch Premium 3641: $12.99
Fram ExtraGuard CH9641: $10.09
Mobil 1 Extended Performance M1C153: $12.99
STP S9641: $8.99

So the best deal is the OEM filter from my local dealer, plus I get a free soda or coffee.

 

[Silentnoise713]

I have the valve but not yet installed. In fact, I have opened the hood twice, first time for a quick glimpse when I bought the car and 2nd time to fill the windshield fluid. My first maintenance is coming up for 30K and I have a laundry list of things that do -sort of a fresh start for myself. FWIW, the valve is very high quality, have very high reviews, and is made in Japan -guessing ‘Fumoto’ is Japanese I’m not concerned about the flow. I make a habit of squeezing an empty quart bottle to get residual oil out. Also, the diameter of the nipple opening (I bought the one with nipple extension for hose attachment) is more than wide enough for minor debris to get out. If there’s anything larger in there, you have other things to worry about.

Given the price of the cartridge filters I am definitely looking into either the adapter to canister kit (~$40 http://finishlineperformance.com/store/product.php?productid=16840&cat=288&page=1) or a relocation kit (~$56) that uses canister! The convenience of an easy access filter is priceless. I just can’t find any preassembled ‘kit’ listed for the Mazda3 or Mazda5. Self assembled kits get pricy –can get up to ~$200 (granted better quality parts) but not worth it at that price point. I’ve been thinking about this even before I bought the car.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...il-Filter-Relocation-Kit&highlight=relocation


I plan to stick with WIX filters (~$5) or try Auto Extra filters (~$3) – bang for your buck! Cheap is good b/c the easy accessibility allows for quick and frequent oil changes.
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=426763.

 

[Silentnoise713]

Ahh. I think the answer lies in the conversion kit. The more I look at the conversion kit, I realize there lies the answer to my question. All relocation kits use a base that simulates a spin-on canister base and attaches to the engine block, which is ROUND. You can see in the conversion kit pics that the oil passage base is RECTANGULAR –Doh!

In summary, there is NO relocation kit and only a conversion kit. To do a relocation, I would first have to do a conversion (giving me a round spin-on base) and add a relocation kit ontop of that.

Does that look/sound right?


Here's a how-to for the conversion. It sounds like there are TWO different adapter plates, one for models WITH (Mazdaspeed3) and WITHOUT oil cooler attachment!? Do Mazda5s have oil cooler?
http://www.mazda 3forums.com/index.php?topic=146390.0

 

[Heat]

While I'm not a fan of the cartridges, they aren't too bad - not worth it to me to do the conversion. I am interested in the Fumoto valve though - right now I hold up my oil catch basin in one hand while finishing the removal of the drain plug bolt since the oil shoots out at about a 90 angle, for a few seconds. It's nothing horrible, but flipping a lever on the valve and having the oil drain straight down would be much easier. Plus I wouldn't need any more drain plug washers at a little over $1 each.

On the Fumoto valve, I wonder if there are any issues with drips?

 

[flcruising]

My '08 has an oil cooler, so I'd imagine it shares the same conversion kit as the Ms3.

I'm not quite understanding the logic for the conversion. You want to convert only so you can relocate the oil filter, but you will also install a Fumoto valve? How do you intend on draining the oil without getting underneath there anyways? Isn't that the purpose of the filter relocation - not getting under the car?

If you are going to go through the troubles of this, I suggest you do the conversion, but then do a bypass filter kit. Then there would actually be a benefit to all the added cost and labor, and you can then do extended drain intervals that would eventually return on your investment (if you can call it that).

$.02

 

[Silentnoise713]

My two main reasons are 1) easy and 2) no mess oil changes. I never thought of or think people who use relocation kits use them to avoid getting under the car altogether -excpet for the filter. They are meant for easier access to the filter body. Some cars require you to really reach in to get at the filter (assuming spin on) or leave you with little to no work space (hand/arm rubbing as you reach the filter and fumbling to put new filter, primed with oil, back on). Also, most filters are mounted horizontally so once you break the seal loose, it drains. Relocating in vertically ontop in the engine bay eliminates that. The relocation kit also mounts the filter vertically so that's good!


I’ve done my share of oil changes and can keep the floor 100% clean but my hands and arms always get messy. For the minor cost of both the Fumoto valve and relocation kit (assuming one was available for the car), I can’t see why I wouldn’t get it for all my keeper cars. Here are some other reason/thoughts why I wanted to do both. Conversion kit was never a though, until now.

-Allow me to chain oil on the fly. I plan to use dino oil and just make more frequent changes vs using semi or full synthetic for longer duration. This is a commuting family car and is never at full boil to warrant quality stuff.
-Avoid having to use any tools. I am also thinking about driving up on a steep curb on one side (avoid jacking) so I can get access to the drain valve but do not yet know how deep I have to reach –Look ma, no hands (in this case, no tools). Will also be making access holes in the under tray.
-Not have to worry about making a mess with dripping oil or have to change into 'dirty shirt' to change the oil. Reason why I went the nipple route and was really looking to do oil relocation so I don't have to reach in for filer access. Given the cost of the canister filters posted by Heat and messiness of the cartridge itself, I plan to do the conversion. It’s only $40 (comes with a filter too) for the conversion kit and canister filters are dirt cheap vs cartridge. Long shot that I’ll do the relocation onto of the conversion –too many added potential failure points.
-The conversion allows for larger bodied canister filters and you have a much better selection. If using larger filter, I can do a new filter for every 2-3 oil change. The relocation kits that use 2 filters allow for even longer change intervals. Dual filters are the ultimate in debris/filter protection but it’s too much for my needs. However, imagine the scenario where you only need to flip the fumoto valve for oil drain and refill and change filters once, maybe twice, a year.
-Easier oil changes during winter months –priceless. We’ve been having record heat waves around here the last few days but I remember and dread any work in the winter months.
-Chaining oil when it is at/near full operating temp. Hot fluids flow better and sediments have not rested to the bottom as you let it cool –prob minor benefit but why not?
-Allow for fast and easy changes. Not necessarily fast in terms of total time from start to finish but in terms of not having to fumble for tools or waiting for engine to cool to working temp. No more priming crush washers or deal with the drain bolt.

 

[flcruising]

...Also, most filters are mounted horizontally so once you break the seal loose, it drains. Relocating in vertically on top in the engine bay eliminates that. The relocation kit also mounts the filter vertically so that's good!

We are speaking of the Mz5, not 'some cars'. If the filter were a pain to access I would start to understand, but it's on the bottom in front of the oil pan sitting vertically - VERY ACCESSIBLE.

Given the cost of the canister filters posted by Heat and messiness of the cartridge itself, I plan to do the conversion. It's only $40 (comes with a filter too) for the conversion kit and canister filters are dirt cheap vs cartridge. Long shot that I'll do the relocation onto of the conversion -too many added potential failure points.

So you aren't doing the filter relocation?

-The conversion allows for larger bodied canister filters and you have a much better selection.

Agreed. Depending on what brand cartridge filter you use, the prices around here range from about $3 to over $10. That's still right on track with canisters.

If using larger filter, I can do a new filter for every 2-3 oil change.

That should never be performed with a full flow oil filter.

The relocation kits that use 2 filters allow for even longer change intervals. Dual filters are the ultimate in debris/filter protection but its too much for my needs.

Now you are referring to a bypass filter system like I mentioned before. Works much differently than a relocated full flow filter. Bypass would give you the extended drain intervals and provide better protection, NOT a simple filter relocation kit.

However, imagine the scenario where you only need to flip the fumoto valve for oil drain and refill and change filters once, maybe twice, a year.
-Easier oil changes during winter months priceless. Weve been having record heat waves around here the last few days but I remember and dread any work in the winter months.
-Chaining oil when it is at/near full operating temp. Hot fluids flow better and sediments have not rested to the bottom as you let it cool prob minor benefit but why not?
-Allow for fast and easy changes. Not necessarily fast in terms of total time from start to finish but in terms of not having to fumble for tools or waiting for engine to cool to working temp. No more priming crush washers or deal with the drain bolt.

I can see the enticement, but I never do oil changes on-the-fly or while the engine is warm. I usually pull the car up on ramps the night before and get to work on it the next morning. Take my time and do some undercarriage inspection as well, so an oil change for me, especially since it only happens about 2x per year, is not a 20 minute lube.

The small orifice design of the valve for some reason just doesn't bode well with me. If I were to make a change, it would be to use an extracting pump and draw the oil from the dipstick tube. Then, I could see the desire to relocate the filter to the top of the engine.

Let me get back to the main points of my original questions...

1. Why would you relocate a full flow oil filter that is easily accessible?
2. Where would you relocate it to?

 

[Heat]

I was changing the oil on my '99 Accord last night - it has one of those filters that is up in the engine and almost horizontal. As I was washing the oil off of my hand and arm afterwards I was thinking that the Mazda5 oil change really isn't that bad.

Sure, the splash guard is a pain the first time or two that you take it off but now that I am familiar with it, it's a snap. And the filter drops straight down, you really can't get any easier. My only beef is with the horizontal drain plug but even that isn't the end of the world - hold your oil catch reservoir with one hand close to the bolt as you finish taking the bolt off with your other hand.

I can do mess-free oil changes with my Mazda5, my Accord always has some splashing at a minimum from oil dripping from the filter and hitting the exhaust, then splashing.

If Silentnoise713 does the oil filter relocation I'd be happy to look at the pictures but it isn't something I personally think is necessary.

 

[jimp]

I just put a decent size piece of cardboard under the catch pan to catch any splatter when removing the drain plug. keeps the spills/splatter to a easy matter to deal with.

 

[Silentnoise713]

Why would you relocate a full flow oil filter that is easily accessible?

Let me try to answer this in sequence as it ties to some of the other questions.

1) Plan to keep car for a while, time is limited, live in city, looking for solution that can take away from maintenance time. I definitely do more than 2 changes a year. 50+ miles daily commute, frequent trips to NYC, NJ beaches, and we like to explore a lot. Was set on doing Fumoto + relocation, without knowing the car first.

2) Not familiar with car's layout (cartilage vs canister, horizontal vs vertical mount) hence the some car reference. Maintenance wise, I have literally only added gas since acquiring (+ windshield fluid, which is giving me another strange problem with pump noise and pressure blockage that I may post about if I can't find culprit during my upcoming service ). Oh, also replace lock lug nuts for standard ones.

3) Found more understanding on a conversion kit (cartridge to canister) vs relocation kit (no kit avail, will have to build one on top of the conversion kit) for the Mz3/Mz5. If someone knows otherwise, please share. Still not sure I want to do both the relocation is STILL an option. If the filter is as easily accessibly as you stated, the conversion should serve my purpose well enough. If there IS a relocation kit right out of the box, that would be my route.

4) Will definitely do the conversion given the benefits to me- quick and less mess. I like the idea of having an access hole for both the valve trigger (feeding tube for the oil) and the canister filter so I can just spin it on/off. This will eliminate the need to remove the under tray. In NE winters, these screws turn ugly quick. Cheaper filter is a plus but not real benefit to me but add filter selection is. Plan on using dino oil and may consider more quality AND bigger bodied filter to allow longer filter change intervals (b/c my change intervals will be more frequent); this was an imagine the scenario. I will more likely use cheaper filters and change with every other oil change. Im not looking to achieve extended filter change intervals or additional protection; again just an imagine the scenario.

Where would you relocate it to?

Not the firewall, have heard this transmit noise. Since I am not familiar with layout, I cannot say just yet. I would prob look towards the fender side, behind radiator and possibly behind headlight (*usually there is space here), or add bracket to a mounting point on the block itself. Hose length permitting, really looking for any space that will allow for a sturdy mount yet provide easy access from the top.

That should never be performed with a full flow oil filter.

Now you are referring to a bypass filter system like I mentioned before. Works much differently than a relocated full flow filter. Bypass would give you the extended drain intervals and provide better protection, NOT a simple filter relocation kit

I'm not sure what you are referring to with the first statement.

Perhaps you can explain a bit more on the difference on a bypass filter system vs non bypass (full flow?). I dont know much about it. This will be my first foray into filter relocation but I have a friend who has a single filter setup.


@ jimp I use to do that as the cardboard can double as padding for lying on your back. But I find it easier to just use old newspaper in 2-3 layers. Cheap (free public papers), easy to dispose when finishing job, excellent to catch oil, and not have to deal with splatter build up on that piece of card board over time Now I just lie on an old bath towel when ever I need to get under the car and use newspaper to catch potential drips.

 

[flcruising]

So you haven't even done an oil change on this vehicle yet? I think you should before ordering the parts just so you can see how inconvenient it isn't.

You should never replace your engine full flow filter less often than the oil itself.

Here's the simple difference between the full flow(what all vehicles come from the factory with) and bypass filter systems...

Full flow filter = engine mounted (or remote in some cases) high flow, high micron, low restriction. All of the oil passes through the filter before it is circulated through the engine. Most canister filters have a valve so if the pressure is higher than the filter medium can handle, potentially dirty (unfiltered) oil bypasses the element and keeps on going through the engine.

Bypass filter = remote mounted (aftermarket), low micron, low flow. Some of the oil is diverted (bypassed) to this filter at all times. All of the oil is filtered at a rate of about 1/10 of the full flow filter.

Here's some more information - http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/bf.aspx

 

[skyhawk]

In my previous car, a buick, I had to remove the right wheel/tire to gain access to the oil filter. The mazda5 design is more 'owner friendly'.

Of course they had to put that black splash shield, with 7 bolts and 2 plastic fasteners - enough to present some degree of difficulty.
Enough to convince owners to have dealer do the oil change. Probably a marketing decision to support the dealership and the change-oil industry.

The good thing with doing your own oil change is that you get to put grease to the 7 bolts and the metal clips/nut before you put them back. After 5 years of having the dealer do the oil change, I noticed rust had accumulated on these bolts and clips. From now on I'm doing my oil change.

 

[Robotazky]

I hated the cartridge at first, but now I like being able to examine it for any abnormal material collected on the surface. Call me a geek, but I like looking it over.

 

[Silentnoise713]

So you haven't even done an oil change on this vehicle yet? I think you should before ordering the parts just so you can see how inconvenient it isn't.

You should never replace your engine full flow filter less often than the oil itself.

Here's the simple difference between the full flow(what all vehicles come from the factory with) and bypass filter systems...

Full flow filter = engine mounted (or remote in some cases) high flow, high micron, low restriction. All of the oil passes through the filter before it is circulated through the engine. Most canister filters have a valve so if the pressure is higher than the filter medium can handle, potentially dirty (unfiltered) oil bypasses the element and keeps on going through the engine.

Bypass filter = remote mounted (aftermarket), low micron, low flow. Some of the oil is diverted (bypassed) to this filter at all times. All of the oil is filtered at a rate of about 1/10 of the full flow filter.

Here's some more information - http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/bf.aspx

I see. The bypass filter is a supplemental filter that does additional filtration on the oil that has already been filtered by the primary (full flow) filter. You can get a kit that mount both filters together or remotely mount the supplemental filter but you’d have to find a separate inlet/outlet. Does that sound right?

Is there a real benefit for the typical car owner or is this a bit overkill? Under normal driving and maintenance intervals that sounds like a bit over the top, unless you are specially looking for added protection and/or extended oil change intervals. I see this being more useful on diesels in commercials/industrial vehicles.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/by-pass-oil-filtration.php


This is the double filter relocation system I was initially referring to. I’m not sure if this is bypass system (where the 2nd filter only gets partial flow) or two full flow filters mounted in series. http://www.tdperformance.com/Double-Filter-Relocation-Systems.

EDIT: TransDapt also sells bypass kits (labled as such) so I'm more inclinde to think the double filter relocation kit is two full flow filters in series.
http://www.tdperformance.com/Oil-Filter-Bypass-Adapters <-can't use anyway b/c it requires a round spin-on base...

The idea was to get my parts in order so that I can do everything at one shot and not have to redo things. It sounds like the filter housing is easily accessible (right under the car –no reaching in), which is very good. However, I still want to convert to canister.


I just called Finishline and they told me this adapter will not work if I have an oil cooler feed. The link in the Mazda3 thread to a Protg vendor that has sells adapter for MS3 (oil cooler) is dead. Disappointed (mad)

 

[Silentnoise713]

Confused again. If '09+ Mazda5 went back to canister, why wouldn't there be a part# to convert that.?. Did '09+ cars loose the oil cooler?!

Can ‘09+ owner confirm if your car has the oil cooler feature?

Found this how-to change oil site with really good pics and I can get full visual of where things are and what's expected. Seeing this fortifies my want to go with a canister setup (skips quite a few steps –which is my concern, not cost savings), now if only this was as easy as adding an item and checking out.
http://www.supercar-engineering.com/rubberducky/Mazda3/Maint/2.3L/OilC/index.html

 

[njaremka]

Confused again. If '09+ Mazda5 went back to canister, why wouldn't there be a part# to convert that.?. Did '09+ cars loose the oil cooler?!

Can 09+ owner confirm if your car has the oil cooler feature?

Found this how-to change oil site with really good pics and I can get full visual of where things are and what's expected. Seeing this fortifies my want to go with a canister setup (skips quite a few steps which is my concern, not cost savings), now if only this was as easy as adding an item and checking out.
http://www.supercar-engineering.com/rubberducky/Mazda3/Maint/2.3L/OilC/index.html

i've done a few oil changes on our mazda5, and i suspect it took longer for that person to take pictures and do the write up than it does to actually perform the oil change on the car. from rolling the 5 up on the ramps to rolling it back down and dropping the hood, taking my time, i can get it done in about 15-20 minutes. its NOT that hard of a task - and that includes removing and replacing the splash pan

also, because of the angle of the filter housing, using a cartridge style filter is actually cleaner than using a canister style. the cartridge housing with the drain plug allows you to fully drain the filter before removing it from the engine. with a canister filter, you cant do this, and run the chance of spilling even mroe oil on the ground and making a bigger mess.

 

[Silentnoise713]

Hurray for the interweb

Booyah! (dance)


Here's an oldie but goodie thread with ALL the details you need - from this very forum nonetheless. Note how oil cooler was already discussed as an issue back in '06.?. Though this was new starting '08.?.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...dge-filter-to-screw-on-filter-Should-I-do-it&

Summary for Mazda5 WITH Oil Cooler:
Get filter body part# L311-14-311 (supersedes L311-14-310)
Get gasket part# LF01-14-342
Spin on filter # LF10-14-302 (recommended)

Torque specs:
25.1-29.5 ft lbs for oil cooler to oil filter mount bolt
9-13 ft lbs for oil pressure switch
14.8-22.1 ft lbs for oil filter mount

Conversion plate WITH oil cooler provisions - $58,
http://www.mazdastuff.com/product.cfm?ProductID=2870

Conversion plate NO oil cooler provisions - $36
http://www.mazdastuff.com/product.cfm?ProductID=2869

Diagram of how all of the parts (and options) fit together
http://www.jimellismazdaparts.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=299330


@ njaremka - It's not about it being hard or not. At this point in my life, car care is on the bottom of my priority list. I still like to do my own work but want it to be as quick, neat, and as efficient as possible. If a tool can help me do that, I’m all for it (if it’s not too expensive). I thought about the potential spilling, which is a reason why I prefer relocation. If the filter it is easily accessible, you can spin in off without spilling. Worst case is to put a sheet of old newspaper right underneath to catch drips. My Infiniti has vertical mount canister (MUCH harder to reach than the Mz5) and I can take it off without any spillage. On the Mz5, an option is to punch a small hole (since it is so easily accessible) to drain the oil before removal (something that has a feeding tube would be nice too). How do you suppose ‘09+ owners change their filter? If a cartridge filter is so great, more people would (should) be looking to convert the other way. To be fair, I did see one poster in the Mz3 forum asking about the possibility of going from canister to cartridge. Let’s just say both types of filters have their advantages/disadvantages and the advantages of the canister suite my needs (or is that preference?).

There are also some additional intangibles driving me to do this. It was never about the filter or filtration.
-Save prep time by not having to gather tools, setting up jacks/ramps (I have a surface space (incline) that allows me to reach under the car without jacking), putting catch pan underneath and layering paper under than for occasional splatter, removing the under tray, and subsequently cleaning up and putting everything back/away.
-Save cleanup time b/c there would be little to no mess in/around the work place and not get oil on my hands. This is a big one with me as I’m pretty bad about wearing latex gloves and over time I can feel the chemicals affecting my fingers (not just automotive). Once you get a bit of dirty/oil on the glove, you have not grip and on other cars, there is little work space for a filter wrench. Now much better at wearing gloves when possible. Don't have to deal with taking out the oily cartridge and having to prime the cartridge casing o-ring and casing drain plug o-ring.
-Save cleanup time by not having to use a funnel to pour used oil back into a disposable container as I can drain the oil directly into the disposable container. No more cleaning dirty catch pan or storing the dirty/smelly pan.

 

[Heat]

That thread is depressing, eleven out of thirteen of the posters are long gone. Some I remember from the early days of the Mazda5 forum.

Name / Date of last post

Wuster: November 5, 2008
Martman: October 11, 2006
dommo_g: Autust 13, 2009
bulwinkl: May 3, 2010
TheMAN: (still active on Mazda3 forums, hasn't posted in Mazda5 forums in a long time
irloyal: November 27, 2007
065: July 21, 2009
Ninty1GTiVR6: September 4, 2006
Benfolio: February 15, 2009 (he was a Mazda service guy if I remember right, great about pointing out part numbers)
narenji: October 21, 2006
slvrsleeper: June 5, 2008

Still active (posted in the past month)
Rocket, rodslinger

 

[Silentnoise713]

Update. 2008 does indeed have oil cooler attachment. Some redundant pics but it was hard to get a good pic with a camera.