09 2.5L 4 cly w/ manual - driver feedback

626gt

Member
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09 M6i GT
If you are driving a 6 with the 4cly & manual can you let me know if you are experiencing the following or can replicate it on your car? Mazda dealer is telling me it's within normal specs but I don't recall it on other 6 manuals I test drove & even if it is in "specs" it's a design flaw as it makes the ride jerky & maintaining a steady speed is damm near impossible. Car is driving like an automatic. Acceleration is fine so my focus is on the drive by wire setting being too sensitive.

When driving with light or no pressure on accelerator will the car seem to hesitate, skip or hiccup? This is not a lugging or stalling issue related to changing gears. For example - driving in 35 mph zone with traffic @ 40 MPH, I can drive in 4th, 5th or 6th gear with light or no acceleration. Prior 2 mazda manuals I drove with over 100k on each would not continue at speed without throttle input and never hiccupped or felt like it missed a cylinder. Car only has 600 miles so again not much wear/tear to account for. Thanks
 
I have a slight amount of hesitation on acceleration when the car is cold. When warm, throttle response and action is normal.
 
Ditto -- the first 300 feet may have a slight hiccup (like in a parking garage) but nothing other thanthat.

Sounds like the P-brake is dragging to me . . .

The only thing I notice is that, the car seems to be geared/throttled in a way that prevents it from picking up speed with no throttle; I'm guessing that's "zoom zoom" (meaning if I touch the throttle it really goes).

I only notice this going downhill on the highway. At 80+, it won't pick up speed; throwing the clutch in will allow it to accelerate on it's own.

That is *IT* for hesitation issues - NOTHING like you describe.

(6th may lug at 30-35, but you knew that already)

-Ernie
 
09 2.5L 4cyl w/manual

Thanks for your thoughts Ernie - definitely not the parking brake . My hesitation is not at start up or acceleration - those times the engines' fine. It's just at light throttle no matter speed or rpm and it's unpredictable other than the light throttle - though I seem to notice when cresting or starting up hill or if road is banked. I'm really thinking it's the drive by wire pedal sensor is malfunctioning or crazy sensitive. I like a responsive accelerator just as much at the next guy but this is too much.
 
Okay, then it's probably not just perception. Let's break this down:

Initial Visit/Complaint
1) Did they test drive the vehicle?
Correct vehicle troubleshooting is a tech rides with you one-way . . . so you can show him when it happens (he may or may not feel it), then he drives back to see if he can replicate the issue.
2) Did they only check what you asked them to?
Sounds like you made a logical deduction, but depending on the dealer, they should check what you ask them to, and if they find nothing, come up with some ideas on their own.

Dealer Competence/Accommodation
Has this dealer given you the benefit of the doubt and been obliging about these concerns? If not, find another dealer, at least for this problem. They may have either not been bright enough to come up with their own idea as to what the problem is . . . or if (see next part) they won't let you try other avenues of testing out, another dealer may.

Debugging and Troubleshooting
1) Test Drive Another M6 with the same setup.
2) Find a local M6 owner to test drive your car and see if there's a difference.
3) Test drive a new 2.5 M3 with M/T and see if it does the same thing

I find it hard to believe that this is just you not being used to drive-by-wire (this was my first dbw throttle and I had no problem being adjusted).

As to what the problem actually is - this car is crazy computerized, it could be lots of things . . . the drive-by-wire doesn't sound like the only possibility to me . . .

Have you done anything even seemingly minor to the air flow? (Different air box, etc.) I've read a lot of people trying to tinker with these new engines getting CELs and weird stuff for any sort of minor 'performance boost' . . . seems like they're programmed to reject modding.

Let us know how it turns out either way.
 
Ernie - see below for my answers (underlined)

Okay, then it's probably not just perception. Let's break this down:

Initial Visit/Complaint
1) Did they test drive the vehicle?
Correct vehicle troubleshooting is a tech rides with you one-way . . . so you can show him when it happens (he may or may not feel it), then he drives back to see if he can replicate the issue.

Tech drove it once, said he could not find it, then I drove it with him and he admits feeling it but feels that it's normal function/with in specs.

2) Did they only check what you asked them to?
Sounds like you made a logical deduction, but depending on the dealer, they should check what you ask them to, and if they find nothing, come up with some ideas on their own.

They didn't check anything related to this yet to my knowledge because they seem to think it's normal. Thats' what I'm pushing them & mazda to do. I heard about the gas pedal replacement idea from someone on a Mazda Forum who experienced the same or similar thing.

Dealer Competence/Accommodation
Has this dealer given you the benefit of the doubt and been obliging about these concerns? If not, find another dealer, at least for this problem. They may have either not been bright enough to come up with their own idea as to what the problem is . . . or if (see next part) they won't let you try other avenues of testing out, another dealer may.

I bought car at dealer out of state( local ones did not have this model left on lots) but I'm having this researched at local dealer. They have been someone accomodating but honestly, dealer can't authorized warranty work unless Corp Mazda does and sometimes I'm the ping pong ball in the middle.

Debugging and Troubleshooting
1) Test Drive Another M6 with the same setup. - Am going to try this.
2) Find a local M6 owner to test drive your car and see if there's a difference.
(actually guy on my hockey team has a new one (touring with 4cly manual) & I'm going to ask him if I can do this.

3) Test drive a new 2.5 M3 with M/T and see if it does the same thing

I find it hard to believe that this is just you not being used to drive-by-wire (this was my first dbw throttle and I had no problem being adjusted).

As to what the problem actually is - this car is crazy computerized, it could be lots of things . . . the drive-by-wire doesn't sound like the only possibility to me . . .

Have you done anything even seemingly minor to the air flow? (Different air box, etc.) I've read a lot of people trying to tinker with these new engines getting CELs and weird stuff for any sort of minor 'performance boost' . . . seems like they're programmed to reject modding.

No mods to the car. I plan to keep it til it drops & won't modify anything (except maybe after warranty is up)

Let me know if you can think of anything else that might help me. I've sent an email to dealer and Corp Mazda Cust. Srvce rep offering to have local Corp Mazda rep drive car with me.

Also it was suggested that I check how car does under cruise control as a test since if it's fine then, that further suggests pedal/DBW sensor issue as cruise control does not deal with pedal inputs.


Let us know how it turns out either way.
__________________
 
I have slight hesitation from 1st to 2nd when the engine's cold but it goes away after just a few stops. Nothing else... (dunno)
 
I know exactly what you are talking about, I just drove my car 1500 miles the last few days. It only has 3k on it now. I would not describe it as a hesitation or engine miss but you can feel the throttle plate probably making bigger movements than you want it to causing the momentum of the car to change. I really did not notice the speed changing but you could feel the slightest of pedal pressure change. I also think it is a sensitivity issue. I did a lot of mountain driving and I felt it on the downhills more frequently. It felt as if I was changing the amount of throttle I was giving it but I was not moving at all.

matt
 
Update from Maine - Mazda regional rep was in town so dealer took my car on Tuesday for him to drive. he felt/agreed that the "hiccup" was there. He wondered if the faulty battery I had during my 1st week with the car had caused the ECU to malfunction so he reflashed it late yesterday. Dealer kept car overnight and drove it 3x on WEd AM claiming that the hiccup is gone. I picked up car around 4 on Wed afternoon. after start up engine idles @ or below 1k RPM - previously it was around 1500.

During a few errands around town the hiccup was not prevelant (though I thought I felt one - if it was one it was different - not as abrupt) . I need more time before I'm convinced that this solves the problem as several people with this issue did not have a battery problem like I did that I'm aware of and I'm also concerned that the cause of the car not starting and subsequent battery dying has never been solved. Time will tell. I'll post more updates early next week as I get more time and cold weather starts under my belt. Did anyone else who has this issue have a battery problem?
 
I had a hesitation issue when cold which has been eliminated by ensuring a solid connection of the (MAF?) sensor on top of the air intake.
When I disconnected and then reconnected it and ensured it was a solid connection, the issue disappeared.
This suggests to me the connection is sensitive to moisture, corrosion, dirt or anything that interferes with a solid connection.
Worth a try as it only takes a few seconds.
 
Fudd thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely give it a try and pass along to some others who were having the same issue.
 
update january 09

It appears that after some fairly extensive testing of a customer car, Mazda has found a fix for this hiccup/hesitation issue on the 4cyl w/manuals. Some folks describe it as happening at light throttle or as applying throttle, others when engine cold and it maybe a little of both. To my knowledge one person has had the fix and I maybe next in line. Once I know more from Mazda/dealer I'll pass it along. If offered reflash of ECU I can tell you that did not work for me so I'd pass.
 
Thanks 626GT for your efforts.
It is interesting that the cold idle changed on reflash. My 2005 Subaru Legacy always idled below 1000 when cold so I was surprised when the newer Mazda idled 1500-2000 in above freezing temperatures. I thought it was a bit unsophisticated given it was a 4 year newer car.
I doubt there was a battery issue in my car as it delivered to me fresh from the factory.
I look forward to the "fix" so we can all relax and enjoy from start-up.
 
The illusionary fix

Turns out the fix is not a fix. Mazda Corp told me that a fix had been found and that I should work with dealer & they would work with district rep to figure out next steps for my car. After two calls and 2 weeks, finally got local Service Manager to call me back with news that fix was not final and no plans to try it on my car yet. Back to square 1, car continues to "hiccup" for no apparent reason. I know cars are complex but if Mazda can't figure this out quickly it make me start to wonder if a fix is possible or what the trade offs might be. anyone else finding a solution or experiencing the problem? I believe between this forum, and a couple of local connections I know of at least 6 people reporting this issue. I also saw a 2010 3 poster use the term "hiccup" to describe his experience. I wonder what the cars have in common?
 
Turns out the fix is not a fix. Mazda Corp told me that a fix had been found and that I should work with dealer & they would work with district rep to figure out next steps for my car. After two calls and 2 weeks, finally got local Service Manager to call me back with news that fix was not final and no plans to try it on my car yet. Back to square 1, car continues to "hiccup" for no apparent reason. I know cars are complex but if Mazda can't figure this out quickly it make me start to wonder if a fix is possible or what the trade offs might be. anyone else finding a solution or experiencing the problem? I believe between this forum, and a couple of local connections I know of at least 6 people reporting this issue. I also saw a 2010 3 poster use the term "hiccup" to describe his experience. I wonder what the cars have in common?

Check for a PM ;)
 
After analyzing data they pulled during testing, Mazda has given it's final word: hesitation while initially cold or under some light throttle conditions is within normal operating parameters. I guess when life hands you a lemon - make lemon aid or file a lemon law claim!!
 
I feel this occasionally - but during acceleration - feels like it misses "something" very briefly - but not nearly long enough to even cause a momentum and or loss of accel
 
I know exactly what you are talking about, I just drove my car 1500 miles the last few days. It only has 3k on it now. I would not describe it as a hesitation or engine miss but you can feel the throttle plate probably making bigger movements than you want it to causing the momentum of the car to change. I really did not notice the speed changing but you could feel the slightest of pedal pressure change. I also think it is a sensitivity issue. I did a lot of mountain driving and I felt it on the downhills more frequently. It felt as if I was changing the amount of throttle I was giving it but I was not moving at all.


matt

I noticed this as well with my 2011. My thoughts are along the same lines as yours. The throttle is just very sensitive. I also noticed it a lot when using the cruise control on the highway.

OP I really wouldn't worry about it, this is not a big deal. I wouldn't want techs messing with stuff that has nothing to do with it.
 

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