Everyone has battery issues (OEM) - is it really alternator? - open discussion wanted

[othercarasaab]

All,

Here's my experience.
2006 MZ5, AT, 36k Mi. I work the system pretty hard b/c use A/C a lot.
Battery is going, CCA just measured at dealer at ~225, and was low, when in for something else.
I know everyone complains about the battery and many have swapped fairly quickly. My question is: Is the problem really the alternator?

I bring this thought up because of the following subjective symptoms:
AC started making low-pitched drone on full power - due to electric fan getting slightly low voltage...no big deal but noticable.
As a test, I loaded down the system just a little bit by pulling the steering wheel with the car parked, loading the Power Steering pump rather heavily. THIS CAUSED MY HEADLIGHTS TO DIM DRAMATICALLY! I didn't have a meter on to measure, but it had to be pulling down the voltage significantly for it to be so obvious.

Now, the battery is one thing, but I would've thought the alternator would keep it from dragging down that far when then engine is in operation.
Conclusion/question: Is the alternator undersized?

I'm interested in anyone else's experience and thoughts on the matter.
Thanks!

 

[coolmazda5]

Check this thread. I was also annoyed about the dimming effect on the 06 compared to the 08 (dimming has been since the car was new, but it got worse over time).

Battery is now replaced and there is no more dimming (unless I screw up on the clutch when taking off, LOL).

To me is just the battery itself, unless the dealer changed something else during the replacement (i.e. regulator?), but I would really doubt they would spend an extra buck for free

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123731101&highlight=battery

 

[KBrian]

All,
As a test, I loaded down the system just a little bit by pulling the steering wheel with the car parked, loading the Power Steering pump rather heavily. THIS CAUSED MY HEADLIGHTS TO DIM DRAMATICALLY! I didn't have a meter on to measure, but it had to be pulling down the voltage significantly for it to be so obvious.

I suspect that if you do this test when parked, the engine will be idling at 6-700 rpm, a speed too low for the alt to be putting out max power.

At normal cruising rpm (2500-3500) the alt will be putting out the kind of power needed to run all those systems.

If your 5 spends alot of time stuck in heavy traffic, the battery may be working hard to keep things going.

 

[skyhawk]

I just found out the MAZDA5 charging system is diffferent than the typical alternator.

From the Tecnical Guide:
==============
GENERATOR CONSTRUCTION [L8, LF]
DPE011718300T01
• With the elimination of the voltage regulator, generator control is carried out by the PCM. Exciting current in the
field coil is increased or decreased by the duty signal from the PCM sent to the power transistor built into the
generator.


• The generator warning light in the instrument cluster illuminates under the following conditions.
— Charging system voltage problem
— Charging system voltage low
— Charging system voltage high
— IAT sensor circuit low input
— IAT sensor circuit high input
==============

In my old buick, charging failure troubleshooting is simple. start the car, disconnect the battery. If still running, alternator is good. I'm not sure if the same trick will work
in the case of the mazda5.

 

[skyhawk]

And here is some quote from the Workshop manual:

Supposedly to check if there is something draining the battery while ignition key is off.

==========
Back-up current
1. Verify that the ignition switch is off (key has been removed) and that all doors are closed.
2. Disconnect the negative battery cable.
3. Connect the tester between the negative battery terminal and negative battery cable, leave the battery
undisturbed for 15 min., and then measure the back-up current.
• If not within the specification, measure the back-up current while removing the fuses one by one from the
inside of the main fuse block and the inside of the fuse block.
Note
• If the battery is not left undisturbed for 15 min, the tester will indicate a high value (approx. 200 mA).
• If the key or any electrical accessory is operated within approx. 15 min after the tester is connected, the
battery must be left undisturbed for approx. 15 min from that point.
Caution
• Operating electrical loads while the back-up current is being measured can damage the tester.
Battery back-up current
30 mA max.

4. Inspect and repair wiring harnesses and connectors of the fuse where the current has decreased.

==============

BATTERY RECHARGING [L8, LF]
DPE011718520W03
Warning
• Keep all flames away from the battery, otherwise evaporated gas from the battery fluid may catch
fire, and cause serious injury.
• Remove the battery filler caps when recharging to prevent battery deformation or damage.
Caution
• Do not quick charge for more than 30 min. It will damage the battery.
1. Remove the battery and then place it in a pan of
water.
2. Connect a battery charger to the battery and
adjust the charging current as follows.
Battery slow charge current
50D20L (40): 4.0—5.0 A
75D23L (52): 5.0—6.0 A
Battery quick charge current [30 min.]
50D20L (40): 25 A
75D23L (52): 35 A
3. After the battery is recharged, verify that the
voltage is within the specification and remains at the same value for 1 h or more after the recharging was
completed.
• If not within the specification, replace the battery.
Standard voltage
12.4 V or more

 

[the_saint]

In my old buick, charging failure troubleshooting is simple. start the car, disconnect the battery. If still running, alternator is good. I'm not sure if the same trick will work
in the case of the mazda5.

Nope, from what I've heard this doesn't work.
I've been told that this test could possibly damage the vehicle too...something about voltage spikes or something. (shrug)

 

[KBrian]

This test/check was responsible for burning out the diodes in tha alt of my 88 mustang.

Real pain to replace those diodes. I would not try this on any car!

 

[coolmazda5]

Here is some comparison data I did (one of the good things about having 2 of the same cars). Student Multi-meter, nothing got unplugged...

I actually checked both my cars to have a point of comparison:

2006

• Switched off: 11.80-12.20v
• Switching on: goes down to 8.5-9v then climbs to 14.2v quickly (it is cold, but cranking sounds slower than the 08)
• Once switched on: around 14.2v
• When turning on lights: goes down to around 12-13v, then goes back to 14.2v

2008

• Switched off: 12.5v
• Switching on: goes down to around 10.2v then climbs to 14.25v quickly
• Once switched on: around 14.25v
• When turning on lights: goes down to around 13.8v, then goes back to 14.25v

No oscillations observed, it seems to be pointing towards a tired battery (uhm)

 

[SGT_OKINAWA]

I'm holding this spot awaiting othercarasaab's respons first...

AND AGREE, DO NOT TAKE THE POSITIVE CABLE OFF A RUNNING CAR! !!! EVER !!....

.
.
.
.

I SAID EVER!

(fart)

Peace!(rei)

 

[skyhawk]

The mazda5 utilizes the PCM to control the field current of the generator.

PCM gets the readings from these sensors to decide how much current
to 'excite the generator,."

1 IAT sensor
2 ECT sensor
3 CKP sensor
4 Vehicle speed signal (CAN)
5 Generator (terminal P: stator coil)
6 Battery voltage

The other sensors will give their own CEL when they fail. Therefore in the absence
of CELs, and battery is discharged, dealer rightfully narrowed down to either
the battery or the Generator. The Battery is the easiest to replace.

 

[thaxman]

AND AGREE, DO NOT TAKE THE POSITIVE CABLE OFF A RUNNING CAR! !!! EVER !!....

QUOTE]


Its NOT 1966 anymore skyhawk. Messing with the charging system will butrn out the alternator in anything modern. Killed my '93 Subie's alt by using jumper cables and letting the alt recharge the car.

IF YOUR MODERN CAR DIES, PULL THE BATTERY & GET IT RECHARGED - DON'T JUMPSTART IT!

 

[thaxman]

As a side - what is the OEM battery for an 06? I have a Duralast but it seems to me that is aftermarket. Would hate to think its been thru 2 batteries in 2 years YIKES!!

 

[coolmazda5]

As a side - what is the OEM battery for an 06? I have a Duralast but it seems to me that is aftermarket. Would hate to think its been thru 2 batteries in 2 years YIKES!!

The original seems to be a Panasonic IIRC (Made in Japan, go wonder), the replacement that the dealer put on the 06 reads "Mazda High Performance", I'm sure is something else of course, but none of them read a known name anywhere visible

 

[thaxman]

Thanks, coolmazda5, something I didn't want to hear, but at least I can be prepared. Going to get a 2nd opinion on the elec system tonite or tomorrow. Want to figure how the car can kill 2 batteries in 4 years.