Cobalt SS/TC vs Mazdaspeed3

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I doubt there's much of a "stigma" associated with MS3 drivers seeing as most people don't have a clue what it is and it looks an awful lot like the regular 3. At least the MS3 started off a good platform to begin with and not some cheap POS rent a car.

When I see a srt-4 or cobalt SS I think great some young redneck ricer that wants to go around beating up on Civic Sis.
 
GoFast said:
You should hear the stigma that us MS3 drivers have. Not just in other communities but even the Mazda community. I assure you it is on the same level as the cobalt and the srt....
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I've never heard of it... the only ones around here who have that stigma is SRT-4 drivers... and some Cobalt drivers. Like last night I was at this popular meeting ground for cars. Everyone rolls through the cramped lot slowly and carefully except this one female SRT-4 driver. As she gets toward the second half of the lot she guns it in first. It was funny because one of the guys I was with says "Congratulations! You have what EVERYONE else here has!" after hearing her turbo spool and bov.
 
If people think something of me because of the car I drive, they're the stupid ones, not me.

I am not defined but what I drive. I'm also anti fanboi. The Cobalt SS/TC is no joke. I really like it. If it's faster or quicker stock, I don't care. .3 seconds in the quarter mile or .2 0-60 means nothing. My car is fun. When it ceases to be fun, I'll buy something else. Then, a whole new group of people I don't care about can lump into a different stupid demographic.
 
p.s. Magazines are only good for vindicating people in internet arguments. and you know what they say about those......
 
GoFast said:
You should hear the stigma that us MS3 drivers have. Not just in other communities but even the Mazda community. I assure you it is on the same level as the cobalt and the srt....
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I've never heard a stigma about the Mazda 3. It's no where near on the same level as the Neon or Cobalt. A local guy near me with an SRT-4 has a damn nice ride power wise, but even he admits, it's a rattle box POS with less than rental car appeal inside. The Cobalt is just plain crap really. It may perform, but it's still a POS Cobalt. Maybe if I was <21yrs and in college, I'd own one, but not now. No way. The only GM I'd own with that motor is the Sky or Solstice. Leave it to GM to crush both of them and keep the Cobalt. Go figure.
 
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pdqgp said:
I've never heard a stigma about the Mazda 3. It's no where near on the same level as the Neon or Cobalt. A local guy near me with an SRT-4 has a damn nice ride power wise, but even he admits, it's a rattle box POS with less than rental car appeal inside. The Cobalt is just plain crap really. It may perform, but it's still a POS Cobalt. Maybe if I was <21yrs and in college, I'd own one, but not now. No way. The only GM I'd own with that motor is the Sky or Solstice. Leave it to GM to crush both of them and keep the Cobalt. Go figure.
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Actually, thankfully the Cobalt is being replaced with the "Cruze" I here.
 
My girlfriend has never had one problem with her cobalt in 3 years of ownership, and my transmission in my MS3 has been operated on 3 times. Quality is usually just percieved. I didn't want to start a MS3 is better than Cobalt thread, but oh well I guess that is what this has become. For the record I believe the MS3 is better all around than SS/TC, but I think that goes without saying anyhow. I can appreciate other vehicles than the one I own though can't I?

The 13.5 stock I looked for again, and I had seen it on a Cobalt forum, so mabye that is a little embelished, who knows. I still believe the Cobalt SS/TC is faster than Mazdaspeed3. I will need to race one to get some closure lol.

Thank you to all who helped me figure it out- it's obvious the higher boost levels, lighter weight, wider tires, different gearing, lc, auto throttle close between full throttle shifts, etc., etc., make that car so fast.
 
GoFast said:
You should hear the stigma that us MS3 drivers have. Not just in other communities but even the Mazda community. I assure you it is on the same level as the cobalt and the srt....
Click to expand...

Yeah it can get pretty bad. Makes me sad to be an MS3 owner occasionally. :(


bigdaddy said:
why would you ever buy an american car that is turbocharged? (except for a diesel)
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If I were getting a new car based on cheap performance only, the SS would have been at the top of my list.

The Ecotec 4 is one of the better small engines in the industry (seriously). Stock, the 2.0 runs 13.7 consistently with launch control and no-lift engaged. It is 200 lbs lighter, faster in every performance metric, and still manages to get an EPA 30 mpg's. The motor also has a reputation for being virtually bulletproof.

As I said earlier, the ONLY reason these cars have similar straight line performance is because magazines won't utilize the launch control/no-lift features during acceleration testing. That's makes a significant difference in the results. Like the MS3, the ECU is fairly cryptic, but a dealer installed reflash/intake gets you a 15-18% power increase while keeping its full warranty.

Honestly, the only reason this car doesn't shine is because of the rental car interior. Front seats, steering wheel and shifter are great. But horrible, HORRIBLE plastics and fit & finish. You can see the sunroof actually "pop" upwards when you close the door. Also, GM doesn't have exactly the best reputation for their electrical systems. That's why the MS3 ranks at the top of small car comparison tests. It doesn't do everything the best, but it does everything extremely well.
 
You can also power shift a MS3 and put down better #'s than the Magazines as well (You don't need a computer to power shift, people have run 13.8-13.9 stock and 13.6 with just an intake) Considering all the Cobalts advantages (-200lbs, LC, No lift shift, 5-speed for better 0-60/1/4 times) it's not very impressive compared to the MS3. Unless you buy these kind of cars and keep them both stock it doesn't matter anyways as things simple like intake, tires, suspension can make a massive improvement over stock making stock #'s a none issue.

Yes the cobalt can handle more power as of now but personally I don't need a 400whp FWD car, give it do me in RWD/AWD. Another thing to consider is that the MS3 has a FMIC which gets heatsoaked all to hell, not a good car to take to the drag strip.

P.S. Still not buying there being a wide known "stigma" associate with MS3 drivers.
 
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Stotrupp said:
You can also power shift a MS3 and put down better #'s than the Magazines (People have run 13.8-13.9 stock and 13.6 with just an intake) Considering all the Cobalts advantages (-200lbs, LC, No lift shift, 5-speed for better 0-60/1/4 times) it's not very impressive compared to the MS3. Unless you buy these kind of cars and keep them both stock it doesn't matter anyways as things like intake, tires, suspension can make a massive improvement over stock making stock #'s a none issue.
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This is a stock for stock discussion; the OP clearly referred to stock performance. Of course the 3-5% of us who are enthusiasts will mod our cars. But it really becomes a mod vs. mod argument, who has more money/resources, etc. That always ends in a heated discussion with no definitive point, because "rules" change as soon as the opposition adds more power. Regardless, hard core enthusiasts would rather have a 2000 lb platform with AWD/RWD and a near-50/50 weight distribution.

Back to the stock comparison, powershifting the MS3 will yield better numbers, but the SSt with an equal driver will still walk on you easily. The MS3 doesn't maintain boost between shifts, so you are at a 100-150 HP deficit for a few precious moments while the turbo spools again. That equates to about a 1/2 car length each time you shift. Add an extra gear to the mix, and deficit becomes REALLY noticeable at higher speeds.

Most times it's going to be a driver's race, because the average driver doesn't powershift. I just don't want anyone here to feel disappointed when given the opportunity to go head-to-head with one. Great car for what it is, but I'd never be able to live with one daily.
 
A cobalt ss/tc doesn't walk a power shifted speed3 even with its no lift shift gizmo. The k04 spools fast as hell and when you don’t lift between shifts there’s virtually no lag whatsoever and certainly not enough to loss major time. Been there done that. There’s always 2 sides to an argument, nothing to do with being a “fan boy” or whatever.
 
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Stotrupp said:
A cobalt ss/tc doesn't walk a power shifted speed3 even with its no lift shift gizmo. The k04 spools fast as hell and when you dont lift between shifts theres virtually no lag whatsoever and certainly not enough to loss major time. Been there done that. Theres always 2 sides to an argument, nothing to do with being a fan boy or whatever.
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No I don't believe you're talking from a fanboi perspective, but I have consistently seen these cars run 13.6 bone stock at Autoclub Raceway @ 1000+ ft above sea level. I have never seen the MS3 run faster than a high 13.9x, and those times are few and far between. The MS3 has 6 gears, turbo lag, and 200 extra lbs. From both theory and first hand experience, the SSt is the faster car.

I think we can just agree to disagree. But I hope I've added some extra perspective on this comparison. ;)
 
cobalt ss must have 0 turbo lag..cause honestly these ms3's for a turbocharged car has very little..ive driven sti's wrx's and evo's and they got more lag. but yes..200 lb lighter and 5 speed vs 6 speed will make a difference. Also most stock cobalt ss with run 250 whp stock..which tells me that chevy might have under-rated the sae power. These are quick little cars!..I like the speed 3 over the cobalt ss in looks and refinement..its simply got more options. But in straight line I do believe the cobalt ss/tc is slightly faster "stock"..The ms3 is still a very fast hatchback and one of the best buys in america for under 25000 dollars. and with a aftermarket intercooler,tbe,intake and tune your looking at over 300 whp and 320-350 tq..those are awesome numbers for a 3100lb car lol...so I would say quit bitching about whats better or faster or whatever..you spent the money on your car..regardless if its a ms3 or gti or cobalt ss or gosh dammit even those srt-4's lol..you got it cause thats the car you wanted..so ofcourse you naturaly want to feel its the best or the fastest or this car couldnt beat mine type of s***..its just typical alpha male and is what it is..but you gotta open up your eyes and check the facts from both real world experience and from learning from others too before you open your mouth up and say something thats prabaly not true or is negative in whatever way its taken,though opinions are alwas welcomed..Im not pointing fingers at no one here at all..Honestly I see Design and StoBtrupp in the mazda forums all the time and look forward to what they say and regard thier opinions in a respectful manner..and I only point them out cause I see them in here alot..But these colbalt vs ms3 or wrx vs ms3 or whatever stuff gets people irritated cause eventruly it turns into my dad can beat your dad up story instead of just sharing ideas and acknowleging that some people might know what the heck thier talking about..alright im done rambling and im far from perfect thats for dam sure, I learn things everyday.laters :)
 
ive seen a ss/tc dyno'd on a dyno jet to the wheels 235hp and 240trq...the guy did a simple tune and it went up to 275hp and 290trq...when they come from the factory they are ok what people are doing is keeping it stock and getting these tunes and this is what they get...idk but all i gotta say ive been to srt-4 meets and ive been to cobalt ss meets and ive only once been 1 up'd by someone and it was at the cobalt meet they all think they have the fastest cars in the world and they all run bad times because they dont know how to drive...i know alot of srt-4 owners and not as bad they do have that my car is faster then yours on a roll lol because alot of the time it is car weighs 2850 and its simple to mod it but MS3 FTW
 
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Stotrupp said:
Cobb SRI+ Cobb AP ~300hp

Even with just an intake ($175.00) 15-20hp you're up to ~280hp

Both the AP and SRI are easily removed if you require warranty work.
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these are just sensors. you can still get a intake and make more power!
and you dont have to do anything to the car if you take it to the dealer.


Mazda needs to do this.


and about the MS3 guys having a bad rep. just look back a few months to when Cobb flipped out on the MS3 community.
 
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