How to drive a protege, Stick.

[simpson227]

I've only been driving stick for 6 months now and i figured out that by shifting at 3000 rpms I get good mpg. I usually coast when I stop and downshift when exiting the highway. What I was not sure about if the car does use more fuel when down shifting from high speeds. Also this is my first car and im looking for a gear shift knob soley for the looks. Can anybody direct to websites or places in Toronto?

 

[drgnzadiel101]

http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/driving-habits/fuel-economy-tip-avoid-engine-braking/

 

[Bret2002]

engine braking is not bad for your engine or transmission but if done improperly can wear the clutch down but clutches wear down, they will have to be replaced eventually anyways you know?

 

[br289165]

If done properly, downshifting or using the engine to brake will not wear the clutch significantly. I shift down between 2500 and 3000 rpms, tap the throttle to match engine speed with road speed when the clutch is depressed, this will put even less abuse on the clutch.

I've only been driving stick for 6 months now and i figured out that by shifting at 3000 rpms I get good mpg. I usually coast when I stop and downshift when exiting the highway. What I was not sure about if the car does use more fuel when down shifting from high speeds. Also this is my first car and im looking for a gear shift knob soley for the looks. Can anybody direct to websites or places in Toronto?

 

[br289165]

You will wear the brakes much faster if you coast and don't downshift, even in a 2700 lb car. It's actually illegal in tractor trailers to coast more than the distance of the length of the semi-truck.


ote=Kymerik;4662219]^^ what he said, engine breaking in a car doesnt make sense to me...makes sense for truckers since they're hauling 40000+lbs and need to stop this side of oblivion...

Throw it in neutral, coast to a redlight....[/quote]

 

[Rockin03mp5]

http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/driving-habits/fuel-economy-tip-avoid-engine-braking/

you cannot believe everything you see on the internet.

You will wear the brakes much faster if you coast and don't downshift, even in a 2700 lb car. It's actually illegal in tractor trailers to coast more than the distance of the length of the semi-truck.

so... my auto p5 is going to eat brakes huh?

and it is also illegal to engine brake your semi in most metropolitan areas, because of how loud it can be.

now engine braking is usefull if done properly. it keeps you in gear so if you suddenly have to accelerate... you will be able to. and it shouldnt damage your transmission or clutch (unless you go to 2nd when you meant 4th).

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

sorry, not everyone is a dick about helping people...

To SocialStealth:
I think the best thing to do is just go out and drive, the more you drive, the more you'll just figure the stuff. 1800 rpm is just a rough figure... Don't worry about mileage so much in your first few months of driving, worry more about your actual driving and then the small stuff will come later.

So I am a dick now? Wow...

Enging braking, using the engine to HELP you slow down, not as the soul source of braking saves a ton in gas. The ECU will cut ALL fuel delivery to the engine when engine braking and compression alone cycles the engine. Coasting with the clutch in or in nuetral idles and burns gas. Fairly common knowledge.

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

I would agree with this. Unless you have rev matching down to nature, shifting wears the clutch. The Clutch uses friction to spin the disks. everytime the disks contact and are not synchronized perfectly, friction eats away at the clutch. Brakes are cheaper to replace than the clutch. So unless you're going downhill or got have mastered rev matching, brakes are most cost effective.

What does rev matching have to do with the clutch? Nothing... Rev matching is for the synchros in your transmission, not your clutch. Rev matching is also VERY overrated. When not spirited driving the synchros in your transmission do everything for you. Most if not all of the cars on here are built within the last 10 years. If for example you are not going 100 and need to go down to 25 in a very short distance and are down shifting into lower gears with very high RPMS rev matching or blipping as some would call it is useless and you are burning gas unecesarily. May sound cool and you may think you are learning to "heel toe" but it is unneeded and doesnt matter to the down shift.

 

[Rockin03mp5]

idling burns gas... yes, but very minimal. now if you downshift proper, and rev-match, you have to give it a little gas right? so does that offset the difference in just putting in the clutch?

im surprised no one was a real dick and just said the usual use the search button bs.

and i thought double clutching saved the synchros, since they were there so you didnt have to double clutch.

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

Double clutching? Pushing the clutch in, taking it out of gear, pushing the clutch in, putting it in the next gear....? Why would our cars ever need to do this? F&F brought this out and in a race that is the last thing you would ever do. Take forever to get to the next gear. Down shift while applying brakes, they help each other. In DD driving you are not hurting anything, trust me. Rev matching is doing nothing for you except making you think about something instead of just driving safely. Also, if you are not rev matching correctly everyone else in the car will think you are a horrible manual driver.

 

[BoostedPR5]

now engine braking is usefull if done properly. it keeps you in gear so if you suddenly have to accelerate... you will be able to. and it shouldnt damage your transmission or clutch (unless you go to 2nd when you meant 4th).

It's pretty loud when you do that...not that I ever have.

 

[Kurtanius21]

What does rev matching have to do with the clutch? Nothing... Rev matching is for the synchros in your transmission, not your clutch. Rev matching is also VERY overrated. When not spirited driving the synchros in your transmission do everything for you. Most if not all of the cars on here are built within the last 10 years. If for example you are not going 100 and need to go down to 25 in a very short distance and are down shifting into lower gears with very high RPMS rev matching or blipping as some would call it is useless and you are burning gas unecesarily. May sound cool and you may think you are learning to "heel toe" but it is unneeded and doesnt matter to the down shift.

Ok, Synchronizers have nothing to do with rev matching. In our transaxle, there are two shafts, the imput and output shaft. The imput contacts the flywheel and takes power from the engine. Now in order to use gears in the first place, you need two different rotating objects with useful gear ratios. The output shaft provides this. The Output shaft is connected to the wheels. The wheels turn the output shaft however fast they want. The gears ride on bearings, so they travel at whatever speed they want. Whenever a gear is engaged, the synchronizers must match the gear speeds to the imput shaft speed to prevent grinding. Synchronizers have nothing to do with motor rpms. How could rev matching have anything to do with the transmission when the transimission isn't even recieving imput from the engine while the clutch pedal is disengaged? Whenever you rev match, you're matching the speed at which the wheels are driving the output shaft, gear, and imput shaft to the engine speed.

Keep in mind also, even in nuetral, you still grind the clutch. When in nuetral, the imput shaft is spinning indenpendent of the output shaft, so it rotates at whatever speed it likes. So while it is true that you still wear away the clutch when you engage the clutch in nuetral, greater wear still occurs from downshifiting if rev matching is not used correctly. Keep in mind the clutch components are moving at thousands of revolutions per minute. If the engine speed is only off by a slight amount, that can still amount to 100s of rpm difference, that's wear and tear on your clutch.

 

[SocialStealth]

This is a pretty interesting thread, i'm glad I started it (drinks)

Lately I've been coasting to a stop and not driving over 40 mph. (put it in cruise control soon as I reach 2k rpms in 5th gear).

...except for one day when I was running a bit late with things and I had to drive a little faster....

I'll fill up the tank later today and tell you what mpg I got.

But I don't plan on downshifting, or braking. Braking = wasting motion that i used gas to create. So i do as little of it as possible. But I do need to stop for the occasional unplanned stoplight change.


Does double shifting really accomplish anything? I live in a medium sized town. Not a city. So I can pretty much drive however I want, as there arnt that many cars on the road.

 

[Sport23]

Careful driving can raise ur mpg over using cruise control. Coast down the hills and very gently ease onto the gas for the next hill. Cruise control is programmed to keep your car at a constant speed not max mpg, that being said many people have a heavy foot so cruise does save them some gas. If you want to maximize your gas mileage you can get your car tuned and lean it out a bit if you have the money. Also, grab a vacuum gauge and drive for maximum vacuum.

 

[Rockin03mp5]

double shifting is only usefull if you want really strong legs!

and for best mpg... always drive downhill

 

[Kurtanius21]

Yesterday I realized how much I need practice with a stick shift. I had to do parallel parking on an uphill. It was so stressful and I came close many times to hitting the car behind me. I'll never be able to visit San Francisco like this =/

 

[SocialStealth]

It came out to 30 mpg. Not a big leap from the 28 mpg I average with normal driving. Not what I expected. Maybe I'll get better at this...

 

[br289165]

Double clutching is not necessary with synchronized transmissions such as ours, it is used mostly with semi truck shifting, which have unsynch'd tranny's.

This is a pretty interesting thread, i'm glad I started it (drinks)

Lately I've been coasting to a stop and not driving over 40 mph. (put it in cruise control soon as I reach 2k rpms in 5th gear).

...except for one day when I was running a bit late with things and I had to drive a little faster....

I'll fill up the tank later today and tell you what mpg I got.

But I don't plan on downshifting, or braking. Braking = wasting motion that i used gas to create. So i do as little of it as possible. But I do need to stop for the occasional unplanned stoplight change.


Does double shifting really accomplish anything? I live in a medium sized town. Not a city. So I can pretty much drive however I want, as there arnt that many cars on the road.

 

[br289165]

1st of all my Mi. neighbor, there are 2 types of engine braking when referring to semi trucks. One does not use a jake brake, the engine braking effect is caused by simple downshifting, the second effect is caused by the use of an optional Jacobs brake which shuts down, I believe 2 of the common 6 cylinders and causes a much more drastic slowdown in braking, but not all trucks have jake brakes. It is usually illegal in populated communities to use jake brakes, due to the excessive exhaust popping noise from the added compression effect of the engine brake.Regular engine braking does not create any more noise than upshifting and is therefore not illegal. I know, because I've been driving 18 wheel 10 speeds with and without Jake brakes for a long time. Even though we weren't really mentioning auto P5's, the auto's can engine brake just the same. May I ask how old you are?

you cannot believe everything you see on the internet.



so... my auto p5 is going to eat brakes huh?

and it is also illegal to engine brake your semi in most metropolitan areas, because of how loud it can be.

now engine braking is usefull if done properly. it keeps you in gear so if you suddenly have to accelerate... you will be able to. and it shouldnt damage your transmission or clutch (unless you go to 2nd when you meant 4th).

 

[isbre]

Isn't there three ways, downshifting, shutting down cylinders and exhaust restriction? Also Telma (Electrical) and Retarter (hydraulic) helping brakes should not be forgotten. Engine braking a car is very nice to save both gas and brakes, just not overdo it like I did. I have to replace my front rotors because they are so rusted on the back side that my car didn't pass inspection, apparently there is such a thing as using your brakes too little.

In my experience you only feather the clutch when starting or downshifting without revmatching, when driving it's actually best to think of the clutch as a digital switch. I still remember when I was in the military and was taking truck driving lessons and the driving intructor shouted to me: "WTF are you doing!?! it's nothing to be thinking about, just let it go" The reason for this is pretty simple: less friction time to wear down the clutch. Just remember this, mess this up when downshifting and you may damage your transmission, so this is not for inexperienced stickshift drivers.

To get the best milage you have to think about whats burning up fuel unnecessary: Basicly breaking down to later accelerate, ideling and shifting.
To get the best milage on a highway with a engine @ working temperature gently accelerate to 6k RPM in the first gear and then go directly to 5th and leave it there as long as the engine runs smoothly, in my MSP that's around 2k RPM on a straight road. Just remember that as soon as the engine bogs down it dumps fuel into the engine to keep it going and this affects the gas milage, so downshift in time. Going 35 mph I usually use 4th even though 5th is possible. When meeting a red light I find it best to keep it in gear down to around 1500 RPM and then shifting into neutral whithout using the clutch at all, manual transmissions are designed for this and this method will save both gas and clutch wear.

But especially in the US where gas is so cheap, my advice is to just go ahead and get to know the car and try to remember what RPM ranges the car will run at in different gears before trying hard to get hypermilage. The Proteges aren't exactly hypermilage cars anyways, with my MSP I mostly get 30-34mpg on slow highways myself (where my 96 Hyundai Elantra wagon beater car I can get 40, and with my parent's diesel car 55mpg is achievable.)