Konis Only - Worth It?

[LER42]

My MS3 is both a daily driver and autocrosser. I want to stay in D/Stock, so I'm limited on mods. The logical next step would be to install a set of the Koni dampers, but I'm wondering how much of an improvement they are over stock and how they change the ride quality.

I'm used to slapping Konis on cars that aren't all that great bone stock to begin with, but I wonder how much better the MS3 can get without going whole hog on springs and sway bars, too.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

 

[madvillian]

when paired up with a good pair of lowering springs, i've never once heard anyone say anything negative about them, especially for a track setup. a suspension upgrade, in my opinion is the best thing you can do for this car. I installed my coilovers before my car had 200 miles on it, and I love them, but there are some cons to them. I bought them to stiffen up the handling, and to slam it to the ground, which isn't the best track setup. Konis+eibach sportlines+cobb rear sway bar and you will be a happy man.

check out protegegarage.com, they will get you a good deal on the whole combo if you decide to take this route.

 

[Nliiitend1]

Well the stock dampers are pretty much junk, so just about anything would be an improvement.

I know there are at least a few guys running around with the new Koni FSDs installed with stock springs, and they seem pretty happy.

 

[Kain]

I want to stay in D/Stock

Konis+eibach sportlines+cobb rear sway bar and you will be a happy man.

B. Rear anti-roll (sway) bars may not be removed, replaced, or modified in any way.

 

[kwsmithphoto]

Well the stock dampers are pretty much junk, so just about anything would be an improvement.

I know there are at least a few guys running around with the new Koni FSDs installed with stock springs, and they seem pretty happy.

And one of them is me! I started modifying the suspensions of sporty import cars in 1984, when my Celica served as the prototype for the Toyota Grand Prix Pro-Celebrity race cars because it was on the second ship to hit the states!

Been at this whole sport compact thing for a while, obviously. Long enough to learn that really stiff and low setups look cool but are a b**** to live with. and not as fast as they feel like they should be.

At my age, I think that Mazdaspeed got the spring rates and lowering amount just about right for the C1 platform. But they really dropped the ball on the dampers. Don't ask me why, they just did. My guess is they just pulled a Volvo or Focus part off the shelf and it worked well enough to sell.

Koni doesn't make FSD's specifically for the MS3, but the ones for the MZ3 will transform the car. I can't say if it's the best setup for autocrossing, probably not, but they're really good on the road, and improved the ride and handling quite a bit. The car should have come this way, the OEM dampers really are that bad.

As Nliiitend1 noted, the stock dampers are known to be awful. After 3000 miles I just couldn't take it anymore and followed another member's lead by installing the FSD dampers on OEM springs. Order was restored in the universe; the car stopped trying to kill me. Good enough for me at this point. Certainly a huge improvement over stock.

I have more fun with my car now, with virtually no downside in terms of ride comfort or quality. On roads that would literally launch the stock setup, the FSD's keep the tires on the ground. It may not be the most competitive setup, there are other solutions for that, but it was an easy way to make it work much better without spending a whole lot of money, or riding around in a race car on my way to work.

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

Koni doesn't make FSD's specifically for the MS3, but the ones for the MZ3 will transform the car. I can't say if it's the best setup for autocrossing, probably not, but they're really good on the road, and improved the ride and handling quite a bit. The car should have come this way, the OEM dampers really are that bad.

Do you happen to know if these dampers will work with a mild drop, like Cobb springs? If they do, in your experience, who is a good supplier?

 

[kwsmithphoto]

Unknown, haven't heard of anyone with that setup.

Koni's official line is that they're designed to work with OEM and "factory lowered" cars like the MS3. Ironically, they do sell them as a package with MZ3 Eibach Pro Kit's, but those springs are softer than the stock MS3's. They do not package them with the MS3 Eibach's though, you get Yellow's with that package.

Apparently they work well with a wide variety of spring rates, but there is a limit. And my guess is that the Cobbs would exceed it. Even with the OEM spring, there's just enough rebound. Much more than stock but it could still use a tad more in the rear.

The main problem with aftermarket springs and the FSD's, according to Koni, is hitting the bump stops. The damper senses this as a high frequency road surface input and relaxes the damping, which is what they're designed to do. Unfortunately, a bump stop increases the spring rate by an order of magnitude so the last thing you want is for the damper to loosen up when you hit them. The result will be a "moment" when the damping to spring ratio way out sync. I don't wanna find out what happens then.

Basically, the FSD needs a lot of travel to work properly. And since they aren't adjustable, you can't go super stiff with the spring rates. The only alternative spring that Koni has tested and approved is the MZ3 Pro Kit.

All of which is to say that they may or may not work well with the Cobbs. Koni hasn't tested it, so they don't advise it. Personally, I like and need suspension travel, and think the MS3 ride height is just fine. If I remember correctly, the MS3 springs are .6" lower and about 30% stiffer than the MZ3 springs. Lower isn't always better, so Mazdaspeed did OK with the springs, IMO, they just messed up with the dampers.

BTW, the 2010 MS3 has revised springs and dampers. Exactly what they did isn't known yet, but apparently they discovered there was room for improvement. No s***. The first time I took my 2009 into the bumpy canyon back roads around here I was mortified...and nearly stuffed it into the side of a hill when the rear wheels decided to fly over the back side of a dip. And for the record, the DSC has absolutely NO idea what to do when only 2 tires are on the ground! My first reaction was to counter the snap oversteer. My second reaction was to curse the suspension development group at Mazdaspeed. My third reaction was to find a new set of shocks before I killed myself. Once the FSD's were properly installed I hit the same roads and found myself going much, much faster, more safely, even with the DSC switched off once I learned to trust the car.

 

[LER42]

Thanks for the input, guys. Looks like it's time to call The Tire Rack!

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

.

Koni part numbers:
8741-1487LSport
8741-1487RSport
8040-1350Sport

Street unit sells the set for the MS3.

 

[blacksheepms3]

And one of them is me! I started modifying the suspensions of sporty import cars in 1984, when my Celica served as the prototype for the Toyota Grand Prix Pro-Celebrity race cars because it was on the second ship to hit the states!

Been at this whole sport compact thing for a while, obviously. Long enough to learn that really stiff and low setups look cool but are a b**** to live with. and not as fast as they feel like they should be.

At my age, I think that Mazdaspeed got the spring rates and lowering amount just about right for the C1 platform. But they really dropped the ball on the dampers. Don't ask me why, they just did. My guess is they just pulled a Volvo or Focus part off the shelf and it worked well enough to sell.

Koni doesn't make FSD's specifically for the MS3, but the ones for the MZ3 will transform the car. I can't say if it's the best setup for autocrossing, probably not, but they're really good on the road, and improved the ride and handling quite a bit. The car should have come this way, the OEM dampers really are that bad.

As Nliiitend1 noted, the stock dampers are known to be awful. After 3000 miles I just couldn't take it anymore and followed another member's lead by installing the FSD dampers on OEM springs. Order was restored in the universe; the car stopped trying to kill me. Good enough for me at this point. Certainly a huge improvement over stock.

I have more fun with my car now, with virtually no downside in terms of ride comfort or quality. On roads that would literally launch the stock setup, the FSD's keep the tires on the ground. It may not be the most competitive setup, there are other solutions for that, but it was an easy way to make it work much better without spending a whole lot of money, or riding around in a race car on my way to work.

I'm in the same boat as you. I like how the H&R + bilsteins dropped my car, but oh boy the ride is so stiff that I think I'm starting to hurt my back. I'm really contemplating putting in my stock springs and pairing it with Koni FSD. How do you like the ride? How does your wheelwells look like. I dont remember how the car looks like stock. But i know it wasnt showing too much wheelwell due to it's dropped 0.8 inches compare to regular 3. But I think I can live with the car lookin like it's on stilts than livin with it ridin stiff like a mother.

One important question: since it relies of the frequencies on bumps to decide whether is goes soft or stiff, then how would it deal with series of bumps while you're on a clover off ramp (while cornering)? I was thinking it would be initially be stiff because it's sensing the car is cornering, then as soon as it hits bumps it might go soft to make the ride comfortable. what happens then? you get a major body roll on mid turn? But I'm all for comfort now. My car is moderately modded so it'd still pull But I think I'm pretty much done with stiff ride.

Thanks by the way for the review