Beware MAZDA North America monitors Car Domain!!!!

[Design]

Dude, Mazda makes a CAI, CBE, fully adjustable coilovers, rear camber links, lightweight track wheels, and more for the MS3. Aren't these a form of OEM equipment? Why can't other companies make products with similar specifications as these parts? Isn't this what MM was made to protect consumers from? Are these not used to extract more power/faster track times from this car? Mazdaspeed will also sponsor cars that compete in more than a certain number of events per year.

Not all of those parts are warrantied. The coilovers, for example, are covered by an Orange warranty (off-road use only) in which you assume all liabilities.

Mazda is not as quick as you might think to void warranties (true story). They rely heavily on dealer input. Most techs are not stupid... they can tell when a car has been abused or heavily modded (even if you remove all parts). If you mod with a part without a Green or Blue warranty, you are indirectly at risk. It is not hard to connect an aftermarket part to a failure.

This whole rumor about using outside sources to void Mazda warranties is false to a point. For larger repair claims, Dealers go through a quick approval process to have the work reimbursed. Warranty work is easy money for the dealer; they WANT to do it. However, if the dealer or Mazda Regional Rep suspects foul play, they "might" do a bit of investigation. Or, if a dealer/region has a higher than normal claim frequency, it may be given some extra attention from Mazda NA. That's about it.

We've all heard of innocent owners being given the run-around on a stock Speed3 or Speed6. They are VERY limited and happen usually because of the following:
1. Someone can't provide evidence they completed required maintenance at the correct interval.
2. The dealer falsly diagnoses the issue as owner negligence.

 

[smakdown61]

Not all of those parts are warrantied. The coilovers, for example, are covered by an Orange warranty (off-road use only) in which you assume all liabilities.

Mazda is not as quick as you might think to void warranties (true story). They rely heavily on dealer input. Most techs are not stupid... they can tell when a car has been abused or heavily modded (even if you remove all parts). If you mod with a part without a Green or Blue warranty, you are indirectly at risk. It is not hard to connect an aftermarket part to a failure.

This whole rumor about using outside sources to void Mazda warranties is false to a point. For larger repair claims, Dealers go through a quick approval process to have the work reimbursed. Warranty work is easy money for the dealer; they WANT to do it. However, if the dealer or Mazda Regional Rep suspects foul play, they "might" do a bit of investigation. Or, if a dealer/region has a higher than normal claim frequency, it may be given some extra attention from Mazda NA. That's about it.

We've all heard of innocent owners being given the run-around on a stock Speed3 or Speed6. They are VERY limited and happen usually because of the following:
1. Someone can't provide evidence they completed required maintenance at the correct interval.
2. The dealer falsly diagnoses the issue as owner negligence.

Ok. If my car comes in completely stock, how are you going to have proof that it was modified?

 

[ForceFed]

Ok. If my car comes in completely stock, how are you going to have proof that it was modified?

You can pretty easily tell if a "Stock" car has has parts removed and replaced.
I mean....When you look under the hood of a brand new car...do you see wrench marks on nuts and bolts all over the place...Even if ever so light?
No...you dont.
Becauese the cr was put together by machinery designed to leave it looking as it was...New.

And the warranty and Service repair History will show what has been done to the car if there is a Question about some "Markings" that may be present.

Also....Mazda...Along with many other manufactures mark many bolts...Especially on trouble areas of the car to show signs of tampering.
They also employ the use of one time use things that typicaslly you cannot replace without getting from a special supplier such as The hose clamps and other clamps like they did on the MSP.

If the Wastegate clamp was replaced...they had good reason to suspect you modified and likely added a boost controller....and if you were in for an engine....Odds are questions will be asked.

 

[NCZ13]

yeah alot of people assume the techs are idiots who know nothing. They work on these cars all day, they have all the work manuals, and know these vehicles inside and out. They arent payed hourly, and make money on the work they do, so if they are constantly doing a bad job, then they arent making any money. They know what constantly goes wrong on certain cars because they work on them day in and day out. The people who get s*** wrong or screw up are usually the hourly Lube techs.

Its easy to spot when a car has been tampered with. bolts have rounded edges, arent torqued to spec. They will know when the air filter on the car doesnt look like it matches the mileage of the vehicle. etc

 

[Sport6]

yeah alot of people assume the techs are idiots who know nothing. They work on these cars all day, they have all the work manuals, and know these vehicles inside and out. They arent payed hourly, and make money on the work they do, so if they are constantly doing a bad job, then they arent making any money. They know what constantly goes wrong on certain cars because they work on them day in and day out. The people who get s*** wrong or screw up are usually the hourly Lube techs.

Its easy to spot when a car has been tampered with. bolts have rounded edges, arent torqued to spec. They will know when the air filter on the car doesnt look like it matches the mileage of the vehicle. etc

Well most of that is true, paying by the job rather than just pure hourly or salary can make for shotty work also.

Say you are paid for 2 hours to do a certain job and you have to rush to get that done then it can lead to mistakes to get the job out in time. Not saying all techs do this but some do to make sure they dont get shafted on pay.

When I worked at Ford they paid .2 of an hour (12minutes) to do a oil change (plus the normal stuff like check pressures/fluids and lube the locks and such). While having a lift and having oil plumbed to your station sped the process up, you would still have to be on top of things to get it out on time. Just saying being rushed all the time can lead to mistakes.

Its just a flawed system of how they get paid. Some make lots of money off of it but others can get screwed too.

 

[NCZ13]

But if people are constantly coming back complaining about the work, they know who works on the car, and that tech will eventually lose his job.

The techs i work with (i work in a parts dept) all do their job well, and i have yet to ever hear a complaint yet. And if there is a mistake, the dealership covers it.

but the whole price per job thing is absolutely true. The techs goal is to make as much money (get as money jobs done) in teh day as possible. But working on the same cars every day doing 30k and 60k tuneups becomes second nature. The dealership i work at doesnt do a ton of heavy line work, its mostly just maintenance, warranty work, and the occasional engine or tranny blowup.

 

[NCZ13]

Its only a flawed system i think if the tech or service dept in general is just out to make money, with no sense of quality. Service writers work off commission, so in order to make money they have to sell services. If the techs are doing shoddy work, the customer will complain, and that will reflect on the service writer. Which means they dont get their bonus, which is actually a large part of their income.

 

[oaklandopen]

Well most of that is true, paying by the job rather than just pure hourly or salary can make for shotty work also.

Say you are paid for 2 hours to do a certain job and you have to rush to get that done then it can lead to mistakes to get the job out in time. Not saying all techs do this but some do to make sure they dont get shafted on pay.

When I worked at Ford they paid .2 of an hour (12minutes) to do a oil change (plus the normal stuff like check pressures/fluids and lube the locks and such). While having a lift and having oil plumbed to your station sped the process up, you would still have to be on top of things to get it out on time. Just saying being rushed all the time can lead to mistakes.

Its just a flawed system of how they get paid. Some make lots of money off of it but others can get screwed too.

there is definitly a difference between getting your oil changed and having diagnostics done...cuz they're 2 different technicians. your basic tech is going to be doing the oil changes and visual inspections, while the A techs will be left for diag and A type repair work. and since repairs are piece-work, they all have designated hours, and for the most part techs at dealers have done them so much that there's really no need to rush. if an A tech has been doing AC compressor replacements at 2.0 hrs for a couple years, it's probably only gonna take him 1 hour to do it. if anything it's the diag that could take longer than normal (usually the standard diag time is 1 hour, cuz that's what the customer pays for)

and the op should get a chevy aveo

 

[NCZ13]

there is definitly a difference between getting your oil changed and having diagnostics done...cuz they're 2 different technicians. your basic tech is going to be doing the oil changes and visual inspections, while the A techs will be left for diag and A type repair work. and since repairs are piece-work, they all have designated hours, and for the most part techs at dealers have done them so much that there's really no need to rush. if an A tech has been doing AC compressor replacements at 2.0 hrs for a couple years, it's probably only gonna take him 1 hour to do it. if anything it's the diag that could take longer than normal (usually the standard diag time is 1 hour, cuz that's what the customer pays for)

and the op should get a chevy aveo

most dealerships have a diag tool that does teh entire car, it doesnt take them hours like it used to. Its like a OBD2 reader on steroids. At hyundai its called GDS. And all techs do whatever work is given to them. They dont want to be standing around idle. Nor do they rush work, but they dont take their sweet time either. They want to get a job done and move on. Our lube tech who is payed hourly does 0 heavy line work. He does oil changes and a 15k service every now and than. He also does certain warranty work.

Now this is at my dealership, im pretty sure most dealerships operate in a similar fashion.

Oh and all cars that get worked on get visually inspected. All of them. The tech marks down all the measurements (brake pad wear, rotor wear, tire tread, air filter, etc) and tells the service writer if anything needs to be changed.

There are techs that are senior, but all the techs are on the same playing field jobs wise (not counting the lube tech) so they all have equal chance to get heavy line work.

 

[niky]

Dude, Mazda makes a CAI, CBE, fully adjustable coilovers, rear camber links, lightweight track wheels, and more for the MS3. Aren't these a form of OEM equipment? Why can't other companies make products with similar specifications as these parts? Isn't this what MM was made to protect consumers from? Are these not used to extract more power/faster track times from this car? Mazdaspeed will also sponsor cars that compete in more than a certain number of events per year.

The difference is that OEM Mazdaspeed parts are built to specs and tolerances that Mazda knows the engine can withstand.

There's a big difference between an OEM re-chip, for example, that keeps your fuel table at a healthy, rich air-fuel ratio and an aftermarket re-tune that pushes an engine too lean in search of ultimate power. That's why manufacturer-sold "tuning packages" can never quite match the best aftermarket packages.

How the customer uses the car is not the manufacturer's business. You buy it, you can do whatever the heck you want to it. But, if you want them to honor the warranty, you have to use it in a manner that they deem safe. To claim that they have to warranty a car raced because it can be raced is a fallacy... should a manufacturer warranty a car driven off a cliff just because it has a raised suspension and AWD? Should they warranty a hydrolocked engine just because they put a "Trail-Rated" badge on the car? A warranty is a bonus given for you being a good customer and not abusing the machinery.

And racing cars in a racing series doesn't mean that they'll warranty road cars run in the same way... Again... reference Subaru's SCCA memberships... nobody warranties track-run cars... unless you're one of those lucky souls who bought a Ferrari FXX... which can only be run on the racetrack, and only at Ferrari sponsored events... and you still pay through the nose for servicing.

---

If the oil thing could have been caused by accident... especially if it was a frontal collision, then there might be hope of repairing it through insurance. Difficult, but possible.

 

[ZyrehT]

Zyreht, I really don't know why you feel the need to piss on people all the time. It's pretty much a constant occurance. (uhm)

So you're one of those asshats that feels the need to suck up to everybody all the time. I'm one of those asshats that doesn't have a problem telling others they're asshats, ok asshat?

 

[smakdown61]

The difference is that OEM Mazdaspeed parts are built to specs and tolerances that Mazda knows the engine can withstand.

There's a big difference between an OEM re-chip, for example, that keeps your fuel table at a healthy, rich air-fuel ratio and an aftermarket re-tune that pushes an engine too lean in search of ultimate power. That's why manufacturer-sold "tuning packages" can never quite match the best aftermarket packages.

How the customer uses the car is not the manufacturer's business. You buy it, you can do whatever the heck you want to it. But, if you want them to honor the warranty, you have to use it in a manner that they deem safe. To claim that they have to warranty a car raced because it can be raced is a fallacy... should a manufacturer warranty a car driven off a cliff just because it has a raised suspension and AWD? Should they warranty a hydrolocked engine just because they put a "Trail-Rated" badge on the car? A warranty is a bonus given for you being a good customer and not abusing the machinery.

And racing cars in a racing series doesn't mean that they'll warranty road cars run in the same way... Again... reference Subaru's SCCA memberships... nobody warranties track-run cars... unless you're one of those lucky souls who bought a Ferrari FXX... which can only be run on the racetrack, and only at Ferrari sponsored events... and you still pay through the nose for servicing.

---

If the oil thing could have been caused by accident... especially if it was a frontal collision, then there might be hope of repairing it through insurance. Difficult, but possible.

Mazda doesn't even make their own performance parts, its all done 3rd party. They had AEM make the CAI, which turned out to be s***. KW makes the coilovers which don't get warrantied. All factory tunes are garbage compared to cobb and others and theres a reason for that. The number 1 issues mazda has to tune for is emission and gas mileage, otherwise the car will never see the light of day. That means staying lean through spool up, and dumping a s*** ton of fuel after for safety. Neither of this is safe or necessary if you're not tuning for mpg/emissions.

 

[Antonio DiMarco]

This is a smart man talking

You can pretty easily tell if a "Stock" car has has parts removed and replaced.
I mean....When you look under the hood of a brand new car...do you see wrench marks on nuts and bolts all over the place...Even if ever so light?
No...you dont.
Becauese the cr was put together by machinery designed to leave it looking as it was...New.

And the warranty and Service repair History will show what has been done to the car if there is a Question about some "Markings" that may be present.

Also....Mazda...Along with many other manufactures mark many bolts...Especially on trouble areas of the car to show signs of tampering.
They also employ the use of one time use things that typicaslly you cannot replace without getting from a special supplier such as The hose clamps and other clamps like they did on the MSP.

If the Wastegate clamp was replaced...they had good reason to suspect you modified and likely added a boost controller....and if you were in for an engine....Odds are questions will be asked.

Yeah most of you who "think" they're pulling the wool over a techs eyes by removing mods is in serious need of a reality check. I've had discussions with my tech and he has easily pointed out cars that have been modded then the mods removed before bringing the car in for service.

It's kinda like the excuses teachers get or policeman get when a student or citizen is trying to make excuses for a screw-up. No doubt they've seen it all before. Chances are the tech has also seen it all before. Especially a Master Tech.

Of all the complaints on this board I think the people who expect Mazda (or any manufacturer) to pay for the owners mistake needs to grow up and be a man/woman.

 

[opt_ms3]

Not all of those parts are warrantied. The coilovers, for example, are covered by an Orange warranty (off-road use only) in which you assume all liabilities.

OK, well the CAI, CBE, springs, and wheels are covered for road use. You tell me the difference between CP-e's CAI and Mazdaspeed's, the difference in power they make, and how much danger each one puts the car in.

 

[jred321]

did you know your warranty would be void if you modified your car? i'm guessing you did but chose to modify it anyways. regardless of how mazda found out you are the one who voided your warranty. what you are complaining about is getting caught doing something you know was wrong in the first place.

 

[AutoXRacer]

did you know your warranty would be void if you modified your car? i'm guessing you did but chose to modify it anyways. regardless of how mazda found out you are the one who voided your warranty. what you are complaining about is getting caught doing something you know was wrong in the first place.

I'm not complaining...since I don't give a s*** if mazda re-instates it or not since I getting rid of the POS... I didn't go in there wanting them to fix it, just tell me whats wrong with it.

Anyway, I didn't post this for you guys to feel sorry or piss on me, I posted to warn my fellow MS3 owners... You're welcome...

If you were a little more knowledgeable about cars and engines, you would know there is no excuse (even mods) for a poorly built/designed engine.
Even fully stock MS3 have issues... Has nothing to do with mods.

The car ran better with mods than it does stock...

 

[jred321]

I'm not complaining...since I don't give a s*** if mazda re-instates it or not since I getting rid of the POS...

in that case i would think you would care more if the warranty is in tact or not. you're likely going to take a hit on trade in or resale because of it.

and i agree with the comments on the MS3 which is why i don't own one. i learned my lesson after the first mazdaspeed. just don't say that too loudly around here

 

[mckraut]

the car ran better with mods than it does stock...

You don't say? Would you say it ran faster? Maybe it handled better? I can't believe modifications to a vehicle would do that.

 

[DaleNixon]

I'm sad to hear my car is a piece of s*** I guess I'll go sell it now.

 

[Antonio DiMarco]

The point is

OK, well the CAI, CBE, springs, and wheels are covered for road use. You tell me the difference between CP-e's CAI and Mazdaspeed's, the difference in power they make, and how much danger each one puts the car in.

When Mazda (or most good manufacturers) tests their products they need to test them under controlled circumstances i.e. same parts used across all manufactured products. If they don't then the baseline they have to judge reliability and quality go out the window. Warranties are based on a known risk because Mazda is required by law to pay for any failures that occur in their design. Mazda also holds their parts suppliers accountable for part failure. This is part of every manufacture/supplier relationship. Companies go through a lot of trouble with parts testing and building solid supplier relationships to make sure they have quality parts. On the other hand if a part fails Mazda has to own the issue and relay the failure to their supplier.

Sure Mazda could go out and test every single CAI variant availabe on the market but that would cost development dollars and ultimately add more variables and consumer cost to an already complicated automotive system. Look at what happened to the MS CAI. Mazda had to pull it because of carb approval. And this was with a supplier they supposedly had long-term partnership with. No doubt the supplier forgot to get carb approval and didn't relay the info to Mazda or someone internal to Mazda didn't follow-through. Such communication gaffes are commonplace in a large corporation and is why 8D and FMEA quality processes exist. Imagine Mazda having to track every mod and how it effected emissions? Anyone who has had to deal with government regulations knows that it's a complicated process. Imagine multiplying that 10 fold for ever 3rd party part available. Dollars fly out the window.

So even if someone can anecdotally say there is no difference between a CP-e and Mazdaspeed part there is still no scientific data that will back it up. All of you Saturday morning mechanics who think they know how a different turbo or suspension component or CAI acts in such a complicated system are fooling yourselves. I also think alot of people who worked on their dads carburated 8 cylinder chevy believes they have the know how to tune a highly sophisticated computerized engine management system. You don't.