correct me if im wrong...

[t bone]

i was against installing a DP/RP combo. I have the RP on. cause of smokin issues. after search, reading, etc, this is what i like to do:
install DP using 5 40 oil and from what i can see, this may eliminate the smokin problem, which may already be there in the first place!!

 

[AAMguy]

yes it may...or may not eliminate the smoking issue...if that is what you were attempting to ask...

 

[t bone]

ok..........lets try a more direct approach........will a dp/rp combo and 5 40 oil cause a smokin issue from the tail pipe?

 

[AAMguy]

it may or it may not...its fixed it for some people but not for everyone. if that was the magical fix i think no one would have the issue anymore.

 

[tazman34685]

So I guess we haven't dispell the myth that a catch can plays a part in that smoke issue out the tailpipe.

 

[arkenzo]

there is a probable chance that, 10w40 and an inlet upgrade like the rpmc one, will make you smoke-free

 

[eg6motion]

there is a probable chance that, 10w40 and an inlet upgrade like the rpmc one, will make you smoke-free

straight 50wt will do the trick, but I prefer toothpaste as it lasts longer, and keeps my block free from gingivitis

 

[arkenzo]

straight 50wt will do the trick, but I prefer toothpaste as it lasts longer, and keeps my block free from gingivitis

I wouldn't run 50wt on this motor.

 

[Aaron@JSC]

its not that cut and dry, there is no 'x + y = smoke' answer to give.

the best you can do is search around for things that you can try if your car does smoke:

catch can
pcv replacement
heavier oil
replaced turbo (under warranty)

 

[Aaron@JSC]

there is a probable chance that, 10w40 and an inlet upgrade like the rpmc one, will make you smoke-free

I don't know what a turbo inlet would have to do with a smoking issue.

 

[eg6motion]

I wouldn't run 50wt on this motor.

yeah, it is a bit thin....

 

[AAMguy]

....a turbo inlet has absolutely nothing to do with the smoking issue...at all...period

 

[MSMS3]

Smoke, schmoke! Those of us old enough to have driven on the street and raced American V-8 musclecars from the late '60's -- pre-cat days, know that this small amount of "smoke" is normal in a high compression non-catted engines with exhaust gas recirculation and PVC valves.

Oily crankcase fumes are routed back to the intake to be burned. It doesn't all burn, so some of that goes out the exhaust. Without cats, the exhaust does not get hot enough to burn the remainder off . As long as your dip-stick continues to stay full or as long as you're not using more than about a half-quart of oil between oil changes -- ignore it.

After getting out of musclecars, I've had three turbo vehicles in more recent years before my MS3 -- Two turbo Saabs and a turbo Volvo. I installed dp/rp on every one of them, deleting the cats. Guess what? Yes, a little bit of smoke, especially on start up, which rapidly clears. None, I repeat, none had turbo failure. They all acted just like - - - guess what? Like the exhaust on high compression pre-cat automobiles.

Oh, and one last thing. Oil viscosity needs to be kept within the OEM specs. In OHC engines, thick oil has more trouble draining from the cylinder head back down into the crankcase and can result in reduced oiling of the main and rod bearings, especially during start up. These are not like loose tolerance race prepped engines that need high viscosity oils. Tolerances are very tight and viscosity needs to be kept at the OEM range. Owners of newer 5.4 and 4.6 Ford V-8 engines found out the hard way that higher viscosity oils - like going to 10W40 rather than the 5W30 specified resulted in oil starvation to the bottom end and early engine failure. TSB's went out and shop manuals were revised to reflect this.

Just my two bits in the discussion. You can spend a lot of time chasing your tail on this catless "smoke" issue and never get it solved. If it ain't using any oil to speak of between changes, ignore the little bit of "smoke" and enjoy the extra power of the dp/rp.

 

[arkenzo]

....a turbo inlet has absolutely nothing to do with the smoking issue...at all...period

Tell that to the many people who have cured their turbo smoke issues after installing the rpmc inlet...and have been running fine for months .....

Here is the official post of the rpmc creator...

"I wrote this up a while ago, but haven't posted it due to the differing opinions on this problem. I'm going to post it anyways for the informational bennefits about the turbo in this car. I am not convinced though that it is a pressure differential issue, yet....

I have done some reading on this turbo and found some good info.

The bearings on this turbo are brass sleeves over the turbo shaft. These brass sleeves turn independently of the turbo shaft at about half the speed of the shafy because they are floating on engine oil that flows on the inside of the sleeves and the outside of the sleeves. Clearances are a few hundreths of a milimeter. They claim this is the most efficient way to get RPMs up to 300,000 and life-span to 621K miles in commercial vehicles. I'm assuming a low boost in that application!

Anyways, looking over the deisgn of this turbo, it is clear to me why they can leak oil into the exhaust. Here is a description of the The axial-thrust bearing"

"As the gas forces acting on the compressor and turbine wheels in axial direction are of differing strengths, the shaft and turbine wheel assembly is displaced in an axial direction. The axial bearing, a sliding surface bearing with tapered lands, absorbs these forces. Two small discs fixed on the shaft serve as contact surfaces. The axial bearing is fixed in the centre housing. An oil-deflecting plate prevents the oil from entering the shaft sealing area."

Lowering the back pressure and increasing boost or using a quicker BPV will introduce more dramatic axial movement in the turbo shaft everyting you let off the gas. I think this can increase wear on the axial bearings.

Also, here is another quote about the sealing of the turbo:

"The centre housing must be sealed against the hot turbine exhaust gas and against oil loss from the centre housing. A piston ring is installed in a groove on the rotor shaft on both the turbine and compressor side. These rings do not rotate, but are firmly clamped in the centre housing. This contactless type of sealing, a form of labyrinth seal, makes oil leakage more difficult due to multiple flow reversals, and ensures that only small quantities of exhaust gas escape into the crankcase."

So, if there is a chance that exhaust gas can escape into the crank-case, then there is a chance that oil can escape into the exhaust under certain pressure differential conditions (idling or just after WOT seems most probable).

Read this about turbos and oil:

"The bearings are usually destroyed by either oil contamination, oil starvation or oil coking.

If the inside of the bearing housing resembles the bottom of a frying pan and is coated with black crusty deposits, oil coking was the cause of failure. The bearings are oil cooled, and during normal operation temperatures don't get hot enough to cause oil coking. But when the engine is shut off, temperatures can rise to 600 to 700 degrees F. inside the housing as the turbo undergoes a period of heat soak. The oil oxidizes and forms coke deposits in the housing that then act like an abrasive to wear the bearings. Using a high temperature "turbo" oil or synthetic oil, installing an auxiliary oil cooler, and changing the oil every 3,000 miles can avoid oil breakdown and coking problems. In water-cooled turbos, coking is less of a problem provided the oil is changed regularly and you use a quality motor oil."

Below, I have highlighted what I believe are contributors to oil leaking into the exhaust from the turbo:

1. Engine oil not clean and fresh and not of a type stable at High operating temperatures.
2. Turning off the engine while the turbo is still hot and/or spinning.
3. Not letting the engine oil warm up and flow into the turbo before driving.
4. Pressure changes between the inlet side and exhaust side of the turbo*************************************************************************"


so..aamguy......PERIOD

 

[AAMguy]

well I am def. not going to get into an arguement over this, but anyone with any knowledge of a turbo/engine...knows that simply adding a turbo inlet will not affect the smoking issue. Its just not possible. Now some of the information provided in that statement is correct but its not directly related to a turbo inlet. Simply getting more air or better airflow directly into the turbo will help with cooling,spool and of course the life of the turbo, I absolutely will not dispute that. YET the smoking issue is not directly related to lack of air into the turbo. Seals, cats, back pressure seem to be the main factor in "the smoking issue." I am sure we can argue back and forth but ehh I really just do not feel like doing so. Maybe I will go and attempt to make the turbo smoke and then order an inlet and see what happens...but more than likely I will gain sound...and slighty better spool time.

 

[ChrisK]

Well I've had my Corksport RP and DP on for almost 10k miles, never seen any smoke. I beat the s*** out of my car too. Runs great. But I also always let it cool down for at least a minute before shutting it off.

 

[t bone]

what oil are you using? i bought the syt 5 40 and may try it once i install the turbos XS DP

 

[arkenzo]

well I am def. not going to get into an arguement over this

What argument? You can't handle a simple debate? I know you're wrong, I'll take the word of speedy over you any day, they've made parts for this car and are far more knowledgeable than you are.. and to say that a "turbo inlet won't do anything about the smoking issue", is just plain ol' ignorant.

If you need more "proof" or more "evidence" about the inlet claims, visit mazda 3 forums . com , there is a large thread where simple folk' have switched out the factory inlet with the rpmc inlet and have cured their smoke issue......

 

[AAMguy]

not ignorance, its called using general know how. its like saying "my bpv is leaking how can i fix it??...and you reply change your oil" the two factors arent directly linked so I just can not imagine how the issue would be resolved. BUT if for some strange reason an inlet is solving the issue then people need to rethink the idea that the type of oil, downpipe, cat v. no cats is going to make a difference....

 

[arkenzo]

not ignorance, its called using general know how. its like saying "my bpv is leaking how can i fix it??...and you reply change your oil" the two factors arent directly linked so I just can not imagine how the issue would be resolved..

engine oil in relations to a bov/bpv are in completely different categories...and a lame attempt to be funny.

Here is another very knowledgeable post from tech_speak,

"Labyrinth seal. When driven hard , with a TBE or major exhaust backpressure removed, you can have serious pressure diffs, esp at high RPMs when the throttle starts closing. The boost detected is only that which is in the manifold, the pressures before the throttle can be higher as it closes keeping high pressures on the compressotr side, while dropping exhaust pressure equally as much. This can cause the oil to be pushed 'halfway' through the seal. When you stop to idle, the cartridge heat soaks a little and that oil thats made it halfway out starts to superthin from the higher heatsoak (from reduced coolant and oilflow at idle) where it just starts to dribble out into the turbine side and burn off. Oil would have had to be pushed halfway out during a hard run in order to start seeping out and burning during idle. Thats just the scenario that I've come up with given everyone's info. The inlet pipe probably eliminates the oil from ever being pushed past the seals from more evened pressures b/w the comp and turbine... thats just my GUESS"