Redline oil change frequency

[builthatch]

Is this your first turbocharged car??? The water-cooled center is for longevity of the turbo, not the oil.
The oil cooler is to drop the oil temp down, so it won't break the oil down sooner due to turbocharged cars having increase oil temperatures. The better you take care of your turbocharged vehicle the longer it will last.

i'll ask you, do you think this is my first turbo car? do my posts and information scream turbo noob? seriously?

anyway, you missed the point. yes, being water cooled helps the bearings. more important to this thread and my reason for typing it, is being water cooled contributes to the oil not seeing conditions in which it sits and breaks down in the turbo, thus eventually polluting, more and more, the general volume of oil in the crankcase if it happens over and over. they also added an oil cooler to further protect the oil and the things it's supplied to. thanks for clearing that up as well : l

couple these things together in the DESIGN FROM MAZDA BASED ON DINO OILS, you can re-read post #19. why would i change my pure synths sooner than mazda recommends for their dino oil? i wouldn't. i know what i'm doing here despite your doubts and insults on my level of information.

keep in focus, before you continue to go crazy about this, that i said, yesterday,

i run redline because it's the best quality stuff i can run and, because of that, it also allows me to run long interval changes, which for me means not 3k, but the tail end of the factory recommendations.

so, if you disagree with that, fine, but it has no place in this thread, sorry. logic only, please

 

[JDM Sam]

Yes, you do if you are telling people to drive over 10k miles on a single oil change. Even if you use the best synthetic oil, you are reducing the performance of your car by being driven that long on the same oil. Your way of thinking applies to the people who just commute and don't drive their car hard. Think about that for logic.

The turbocharger spins speeds of 20,000+ rpm. It sees harsh conditions regardless of it being water-cooled or not. The oil still sees hotter operating temperature compared to a naturally aspirated engine.

OEM's used to recommend the wrong change interval on turbocharged cars, and that is why they have a bad rep for reliability.

Factory recommended intervals are for NORMAL driving. Boosting and hard driving does not constitute normal driving. The factory recommended interval is too long for regular conventional oil. Turbocharged cars like clean fresh oil, period.

If you don't believe you are hurting the performance on your car, go dyno right after the oil change and then 10-15k miles later.

For any noobs pondering about this guy's advice. Change your oil & filter regularly if you care about your car!

 

[TheMAN]

I just bought a 2008 3 GT - the owners manual says to change oil every 10,000 km, or 6,000 miles, if you drive in ideal conditions, and every 5,000 km, or 3,000 if you drive in difficult conditions. Basically they define difficult as short trips, dusty/muddy conditions, etc. This is one of the shortest recommended oil change intervals of any car I've purchased recently (Honda S2000 & Accord, BMW 3 Series, Ford Explorer, etc)

boohoo... waaaaaa

you said it yourself "ideal" conditions
ideal = driving like grandma on always traffic-less roads, easy acceleration, easy braking, keeping it below 60mph, driving always in good weather, no dusty conditions, etc

most of us here live in the city and none of that happens... there's dust, stop and go traffic, hard stops and quick accelerations... all of these are "severe" conditions which takes its toll on every component of your vehicle

honda, toyota, etc put ******* 7500+ mile oil changes in their manuals because 1) they want you to buy a car that doesn't "need" more maintenance, 2) they don't care if the oil sludges up in your engine after 50000 miles (happened to many toyotas), 3) they want your s*** to not last as long so they can sell you another new car


I'll keep my ******* oil changes at less than 5000, thank you... I'll "waste" my money on them so that my engine lasts longer... and NO I'm not "hurting" the environment as that s*** gets collected and RECYCLED

it hurts your engine more by changing oil less than more often... if I was crazy, I'd change the oil every day... and that will NOT hurt the engine.. obviously that's ridiculously stupid and asinine

 

[wmherman]

I just bought a 2008 3 GT - the owners manual says to change oil every 10,000 km, or 6,000 miles, if you drive in ideal conditions, and every 5,000 km, or 3,000 if you drive in difficult conditions. Basically they define difficult as short trips, dusty/muddy conditions, etc. This is one of the shortest recommended oil change intervals of any car I've purchased recently (Honda S2000 & Accord, BMW 3 Series, Ford Explorer, etc)

This is interesting. I'm going to assume you have a "regular" Mazda 3 GT, if there is such a thing, since you did not refer to it as a speed3 and because your factory-recommended oil change interval is much different from my 2008 speed3 GT?

Mazda recommends oil & filter changes every 7,500 miles for my turbo-charged speed3 under normal driving conditions and that is with 5W30 "dino" oil.

According to you, Mazda recommends oil & filter changes every 6,000 miles for your non-turbo-charged regular 3 GT?

From following this thread, going longer between oil & filter changes on the turbo flies in the face of eveybody's assumptions up to this point.

Could you please recheck your owner's manual to verify you are correct and let us know for sure whether you have the speed3 or not?

Thanks.

 

[builthatch]

Yes, you do if you are telling people to drive over 10k miles on a single oil change. Even if you use the best synthetic oil, you are reducing the performance of your car by being driven that long on the same oil. Your way of thinking applies to the people who just commute and don't drive their car hard. Think about that for logic.

The turbocharger spins speeds of 20,000+ rpm. It sees harsh conditions regardless of it being water-cooled or not. The oil still sees hotter operating temperature compared to a naturally aspirated engine.

OEM's used to recommend the wrong change interval on turbocharged cars, and that is why they have a bad rep for reliability.

Factory recommended intervals are for NORMAL driving. Boosting and hard driving does not constitute normal driving. The factory recommended interval is too long for regular conventional oil. Turbocharged cars like clean fresh oil, period.

If you don't believe you are hurting the performance on your car, go dyno right after the oil change and then 10-15k miles later.

For any noobs pondering about this guy's advice. Change your oil & filter regularly if you care about your car!

you have severe comprehension issues. you are misquoting me and then expanding on that misquote with utter nonsense that has nothing to do with what i originally said.

let me try my hand at quoting you, but i'll do it accurately: "boosted and hard driving doesn't constitute normal driving". wtf does that mean? despite the fact that it has nothing to do with what i've recommended, do you think that mazda didn't encompass this type of driving when figuring out the inner and outer reaches of their service intervals? it's a 260hp turbo 4cylinder br0. boost is elemental in it's design. do you think they figured that vacuum would be the primary driving environment for these things? do you think that mazda wants the engines to all wear out and break down at 70k?

what you need to do is reread what i've said and figure out exactly what i've said before you continue to spout off. these are things that have little to nothing to do with what you think i said, as opposed to what i really said. it's in print man, in this thread. go read.

example. WHERE DID I SAY THAT YOU SHOULD GO OVER 10K on these cars? did i NOT quote myself in my last post for your ease of comprehension, where i previously stated when i started this thread that i would go to the tail end of the factory (uhh, that would be MAZDA) recommendations because i was using a superior oil to what they base their recommendations? it very well might be able to go longer with no appreciable negative effect, but that is neither here nor there because I never promoted that.

and, "THE MAN", you stated that honda defrauds the public into negative end results through 7500 miles intervals. honda has prescribed those types of change intervals for years and years. following them yielded engines that lasted well into the 200k realm, using conventional and the extended change intervals with a filter change inbetween. do you really want to go there? the factories are not out to accelerate wear or inhibit longevity you paranoid bastard, haha. Their reputations revolve around this stuff.

i changed the factory fill at about 1500 miles when i did my filter conversion. i then put in mobil1, with the mobil1 filter and ran that for 5k. then i put redline in with a mobil1 filter. i will run this for 7.5k ,for the length of my time with the car, and i will not see any negative effects correlated to that. neither will the guy who has this car after me, so stop your horseshit bandwidth bandit manner!

 

[wmherman]

Understood but "what if" you have a problem with you car and the dealership tries to blame your problem on untimely oil changes? I think they recommend every 3-5k and those recommendations obviously go beyond that.

It doesn't matter that the dealer recommends every 3-5k miles. What matters is what the factory recommends, every 7,500 miles under normal driving conditions and that's with "dino" oil. You won't void your warranty by following the factory recommendations.

Keep in mind the dealership service departments want to increase their business/profits & wants you to come in & spend your hard-earned money as often as they can get you there. Also, a lot of service ticket writers don't know a lot about autos and simply go by the "myth" of the 3-5k oil change interval, pitching, out of ignorance, that it is a must if you want to protect the engine in your auto.

 

[Betelgeuse]

A quick way to end all this: EVERYBODY JUST DO WHAT YOU FEEL IS RIGHT. If you want to run longer, do it. But to chastise people for changing it sooner is bordering on ridiculous. Sooner changes only means the lubrication and cooling properties of the oil are always up to par.

It cost me roughly $180 a year to change out every 3k. That's peanuts for me to worry about 'wasting' money and is well worth it imo.

 

[crossbow]

Something to note...

Redline Oil is very hard to analyze from a standard UOA, unless you know exactly what you're looking at. I recommend getting a Dyson analysis through blackstone if you're running redline oils.

 

[wmherman]

If fuel dilution is an issue, maybe the brand/type fuel used makes more difference than whether dino or synthetic oil is used. I know oil change intervals increased when they took the lead out of gasoline.

For anyone who's really paronoid about the oil change interval, geuse gave some good advice, do a UOA to see what's really happening in your engine. Then from that info, decide whether or not longer intervals are safe.

 

[wmherman]

Basically, from someone who has been involved with used oil analysis in a military application, the "normal" purpose of doing it is to "safely" increase the oil change interval beyond the norm. A secondary benefit of doing it is that it can give advance warning of impending engine failure.

For those of us with a speed3, changing oil & filter at the factory recommended, normal-driving interval of 7,500 miles or less, using either dino or synthetic oil, UOA's are gross overkill, IMHO.

Furthermore, IMHO, there is virtually no benefit to be gained in using synthetic oil if one is using a 3-5k oil change interval under normal conditions.

 

[builthatch]

But to chastise people for changing it sooner is bordering on ridiculous.

that's one big problem with the internet, and message boards in particular. i've come to learn this from almost a decade of moderating forums very similar to this. many times, what you think you read, and what is really there can be world's apart. noone was chastising anyone for changing sooner. noone was recommending that it's ideal to change oil at 10k+ intervals. it's not a personal attack. it's solely a presentation of facts to counter common belief. we know it's ultimately up to you to do whatever you/us/them/we want, that goes without saying. the problem is, when you have the automotive manufacturer, the oil manufacturer and common sense/experience telling you that you don't have to do something obsessively, such as change at 3k....with a forum like this with boatloads of impressionable people, the facts need a voice, a voice that seperates the truth and facts from conjcture, hypothesis, and older schools of thought. that is why i posted this in the first place, and i feel like i'm repeating myself, but i formed this thread to show that just because some people think that it's ideal to change at 3k in your average ms3 for the average enthusiast, it's unnecessary and truly does not do anything of substance to warrant it especially when running premium semi-synth or synthetics. If it was necessary, the vehicle manufacturer would suggest it. The oil manufacturer would suggest it. Those in the technical "know" would suggest it based on fact. the former two especially because they would actually profit, but they can't, they can't because it's just not truth....so they don't.

 

[wmherman]

ditto that...

 

[MikeHTally]

This has been a rather interesting thread, even though some folks are a bit "rabid" in their beliefs. I just bought a Speed3 last weekend. I'd like to ask a few "noob" questions:
Does the oil need to be changed early during break-in? I didn't see mention in the manual, but I coulda missed it. If I decide to switch to synthetic, how many miles should I wait? I've heard 5K, 10K, no wait at all...

I was rather surprised to see the interval at 7,500 miles. I assumed when I was shopping that I would need to change it every 3K, but apparently that is a thing of the past. 7,500 sure seems excessive considering it's a turbo and coking is a risk (was a risk?).

 

[Betelgeuse]

Furthermore, IMHO, there is virtually no benefit to be gained in using synthetic oil if one is using a 3-5k oil change interval under normal conditions.

+1

This I agree with and since I don't race or track the car, I stick with dino at 3k intervals. A UOA cost a whopping $22. I've done 3 over the course of 31k miles
and even at that change interval, viscosity has been borderline. What that says is there's probably some fuel dilution. This is the same for many other MS3s, synth or not so it's not just me.

 

[jgirata]

This is interesting. I'm going to assume you have a "regular" Mazda 3 GT, if there is such a thing, since you did not refer to it as a speed3 and because your factory-recommended oil change interval is much different from my 2008 speed3 GT?

Mazda recommends oil & filter changes every 7,500 miles for my turbo-charged speed3 under normal driving conditions and that is with 5W30 "dino" oil.

According to you, Mazda recommends oil & filter changes every 6,000 miles for your non-turbo-charged regular 3 GT?

From following this thread, going longer between oil & filter changes on the turbo flies in the face of eveybody's assumptions up to this point.

Could you please recheck your owner's manual to verify you are correct and let us know for sure whether you have the speed3 or not?

Thanks.

 

[jgirata]

Sorry - my mistake. I checked the "MyMazda" website and offer the following clarification:
o First of all, I have a Speed 3 Grand Touring, so, yes, it is the turbocharged engine
o The website recommends changing oil every 5,000 miles if conditions are not "severe" and every 7,500 if conditions are severe.
o My personal philosophy is to change oil every 3,000 and use "Dino" oil rather than synthetic. The primary benefit from synthetics, if I can believe the technical bulletins I've read, is superior performance under high temperature conditions. It has other benefits, but high temps would argue for exclusive use of synthetics.
o I live on the Central Coast of California; very moderate weather, dust and other "severe" conditions. Oil changes at local Mazda dealer is < $40. Changing every 3,000 vs 5,000 means an extra 13 oil changes over 100,000 miles, of ~ $500. I consider that cheap insurance
o I have a friend who owns a Porsche and insisted on following Porsche's 12,000 - 15,000 mile oil change intervals, in spite of my pleading with him not to. At 70,000 miles - well past the 50,000 mile warranty period, he had an $8,000 engine repair job from burned valve guides that his mechanic swore were due to infrequent oil changes. Don't need to hear many stories like this one and the BMW owner who responded to this thread showing pictures of his engine internals gunked up after 7,500 mile intervals to convince me to take the "cheap" insurance route

 

[JDM Sam]

Like I said, you need to go dyno your car at a fresh oil change and then later down the road at 3k and then at your 7500k or XYZ mile change and see the difference in power. Unless you drive like a grandma everywhere, your power output will be reduced with the older oil. I've already done it and already know the results.

Do you think Mazda and every other manufacturer wants their car to keep running forever and have no business sent towards their dealer service departments? You are the type who believes all the corporate bulls*** Mazda spews out in their literature.

Do you think Mazda intended people to buy the car to go racing, tracking, or even fun runs on the street above the posted speed limit? Get a clue. If this were the case there wouldn't be anyone having warranty problems due to abuse! When you drive harder than the car was designed for (COMMUTING ON STREETS) you need to change your maintenance schedule to something stricter than what the manufacturer recommends.

The whole reason I'm even replying to your ignorant post is so people who actually care about performance for their car won't believe that crap written by some average Joe who thinks he knows it all from what he reads in some product brochure. For all the other people who don't care, stick to your recommended schedule.

 

[builthatch]

white noise.

all i hear now is white noise.

where is the off button on this thing?!

:e-screams and runs out of the room:

 

[wmherman]

This has been a rather interesting thread, even though some folks are a bit "rabid" in their beliefs. I just bought a Speed3 last weekend. I'd like to ask a few "noob" questions:
Does the oil need to be changed early during break-in? I didn't see mention in the manual, but I coulda missed it. If I decide to switch to synthetic, how many miles should I wait? I've heard 5K, 10K, no wait at all...

I was rather surprised to see the interval at 7,500 miles. I assumed when I was shopping that I would need to change it every 3K, but apparently that is a thing of the past. 7,500 sure seems excessive considering it's a turbo and coking is a risk (was a risk?).

No, per the owners manual, the oil does not need to be changed any earlier than 7,500 miles. Many folks are leery about waiting that long for the first oil/filter change & opt to do it sooner, giving them peace of mind. I say, if you're paranoid at all about it, go ahead & change it sooner. It's not that expensive & certainly won't hurt anything. Whether there's any real benefit to it is debatable and there are two sides to the issue, each with points they feel are valid.

"How long to wait before changing to synthetic" If I were to change to synthetic I'd do it at the 1st oil/filter change (7,500 miles) or at the 2nd oil/filter change if you opt for a much shorter interval.

"Apparently 3k is a thing of the past" Actually, 3k has been a recommendation by many quick-lube and dealer service departments for many years, probably as a means to prey on peoples fears & try to increase their business.

If I remember correctly, my '85 Mazda 626 had a factory recommended first oil & filter change at 4k miles, followed by changes every 8k miles after that. I can't remember for certain but it seems like the filter change requirement was every other oil change, in other words every 16k miles. After the initial service at 4k miles I always changed both oil & filter together every 8 - 9k miles. I put 240,000 miles on that engine with nary a problem. The only wrenches on the engine were to perform the recommended services which were to replace the timing belt every 60k miles, adjust the valves, & change the spark plugs. The engine was running just fine when I traded her in. No smoking and no excessive oil consumption. I used Castrol GTX oil & Fram oil filters.

Most on here are probably too young to know this but oil change intervals increased after lead was taken out of gasoline.

My Ford Expedition has a oil/filter change interval of 5k miles. That seems short to me but I follow the recommended schedule.

My Corvettes vary as there is a computer that takes into account lots of things some of which I believe are engine/oil temp, RPM, miles, time, etc.

I had a '69 Ford Torino GT & I seem to recall the interval for that car was 6k miles.

There's certainly no shortage ofopinions on this issue...

 

[AutoXRacer]

I'd like to ask a few "noob" questions:
Does the oil need to be changed early during break-in? I didn't see mention in the manual, but I coulda missed it. If I decide to switch to synthetic, how many miles should I wait? I've heard 5K, 10K, no wait at all...

It is a fact that the first oil change on a "NEW" car should be done (early; before 1K miles) due to metal residue from the engine breaking-in. It is not a requirement and it won't hurt the overall longevity of your engine...but knowing that, why operate your engine with metal enriched oil...?

Performance engine builders due drain out their oil after proper break-in...

All this of course like I said is not a requirement. Its just something auto enthusiasts (anal performance oriented ones) do. It doesn't cost much and its a peace of mind knowing that you are doing whats best for your engine/vehicle; same thing applies to the tranny.

Many MS3 owners dumped their factory oil at 750 miles; I did mine at 1K due to waiting on delivery of oil in the mail (Red Line). You can put synthetics at anytime, preferably as soon as possible and try to use the same brand and type of oil for the rest of the engine's life.

Like others have said, just do what you think its right. As long as you do the minimum that the owners/service manual says, you'll be fine.