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what is the stock turbo's limit on the ms3?
- Thread starter Powerslave
- Start date
no rod could stop that, something has to giveHmm... I wonder why forged rods didn't hold up under all that power...
Its not what the dealer stocks per se, its what they list and can get. You can order those rods directly from Mazda and still get the wrong item. Like I said it may be the same P/N for all apps, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.well the dealership doesn't stock the engines we have to order them from Mazda every time we need an engine. We have checked many of times right at the dealership and I have seen their screens and they are the same and Just to make you guys all secure we order them with a Speed3 as the vehicle listed. and those are the ones that have been pictured. We have a full CX-7 Longblock here to get the royal treatment and the inside looks the same, so I don't know what I'm talking about.
redrocketz
Member
well then I guess you can rest assured that when you blow your motor you will be getting CX-7 rods then because that is obviously the ones we have here. You can ask anyone from Mazda and they will tell you the same thing the Engine is identical in all three vehicles but then again how many people here have seen the inside of these engines?
Don't be getting your hopes up thinking you've got something bigger and better than the big brother 6's have they are the same period. The 6 guys no offence have more money from my experience and have been throwing MUCH more money into their cars and are making big numbers but then they have also popped a few engines in the process. Chris has no idea at what psi he popped his engine since he had no gauge in the car. and a few others blew theirs on big turbos aswell. Now how many 3's are running big turbos and crazy tunes? These 6's are putting down insane numbers and remember they are making more at the crank than the 3's so once you guys are at 375+whp and over 400ftlbs at the wheels there is no telling how much they can handle. The AWD also puts a HUGE strain on the engines that the FWD guys don't have to concern themselves with. If you guys all want to think the engines are indestructible then be my guest but I am getting really good at putting these engines together.
Don't be getting your hopes up thinking you've got something bigger and better than the big brother 6's have they are the same period. The 6 guys no offence have more money from my experience and have been throwing MUCH more money into their cars and are making big numbers but then they have also popped a few engines in the process. Chris has no idea at what psi he popped his engine since he had no gauge in the car. and a few others blew theirs on big turbos aswell. Now how many 3's are running big turbos and crazy tunes? These 6's are putting down insane numbers and remember they are making more at the crank than the 3's so once you guys are at 375+whp and over 400ftlbs at the wheels there is no telling how much they can handle. The AWD also puts a HUGE strain on the engines that the FWD guys don't have to concern themselves with. If you guys all want to think the engines are indestructible then be my guest but I am getting really good at putting these engines together.
no rod could stop that, something has to give
I was being sarcastic.
well then I guess you can rest assured that when you blow your motor you will be getting CX-7 rods then because that is obviously the ones we have here. You can ask anyone from Mazda and they will tell you the same thing the Engine is identical in all three vehicles but then again how many people here have seen the inside of these engines?
Don't be getting your hopes up thinking you've got something bigger and better than the big brother 6's have they are the same period. The 6 guys no offence have more money from my experience and have been throwing MUCH more money into their cars and are making big numbers but then they have also popped a few engines in the process. Chris has no idea at what psi he popped his engine since he had no gauge in the car. and a few others blew theirs on big turbos aswell. Now how many 3's are running big turbos and crazy tunes? These 6's are putting down insane numbers and remember they are making more at the crank than the 3's so once you guys are at 375+whp and over 400ftlbs at the wheels there is no telling how much they can handle. The AWD also puts a HUGE strain on the engines that the FWD guys don't have to concern themselves with. If you guys all want to think the engines are indestructible then be my guest but I am getting really good at putting these engines together.
None of us are saying the engines are indestructable, its just kinda sad when the highest ms6 is waht? 320-330whp, even the big turbo guys are only making 320-330 and blowing up. A stock ms3 dynos at what? Around 240 seems the be the average with a couple above that and coulple below that, so lets say 230-240whp bone stock. The bone stock ms6 does what? lets say 215-225 bone stock. Thats only 15-20whp they loose from the awd. A 320-330whp ms6 is like a 340-350whp ms3. A 340whp ms3 is i/tbe/ic/18psi tuned. Ive been saying this for weeks now. Whoever came up with the stupid idea that 12.0-12.5 is ok to run on these engines needs their heads examined. All the 6 guys are aiming for 12.0, all the 6 guys are blowing up. Once my dash hawk gets here after 4k rpm my car won't see higher than 11.8 spike with a 11.5 goal, and i think thats still a lil aggressive for daily driving.
Another thing that i seem to be noticing is people bitching about stuttering/backfireing/cutting out ect at low rpms under wot. When some1 tells me "i floored my engine in 6th at 60mph" I loose all hope in them. Once you start playing with boost and adding power, you cant drive this car liek a stock car. Every single dyno i see is started at like 2500rpm...WHY. When the hell are you ever pushing your car at 2500rpm? If i ever do get dynoed 3500 and up, and once again, thats still kind of pushing it. People are adding all these mods and simply adding too much stress and load down low. I get a pm once a week prooving that peopel actually do drive like this.....boggles my mind. I test this on my car and it drives like s***, it feels liek the engine wants to rip out of the mounts when you floor it down low, i only did it for like 2 seconds. Another thing poeple must realize is that when they up the boost, change turbo, partial throttle driving is going to SUCK. You will spool up faster and to a higher psi than before, keep doing that and your a ticking time bomb. Once again these are just all my opinion and the reason why i think these engines (well the 6's) are blowing up.
As for the 6 guys spending more money then the 3 guys? Yea when you blow an engine, you kind of have no choice. Its either pay 10 grand for a stock engine or 5 for a built one.
I agree with laloosh, 11.5 afr's are much better to run. Especially since no one (outside of Cobb) at this time has full control of the ECU. With DI, variable intake valve timing, and a CR of 9.5:1, you are risking a lot running anything higher.
You can easily create a situation where the dynamic compression ratio would be way outside anything pump gas could withstand...
A large enough kaboom on the compression stroke = rod bending
I really think that some complex operations are occuring in the ECU between boost and intake valve timing. And piggy-backing that really messes with the dynamic compression ratio. Meaning that if the ECU thinks it only is getting 15psi and decides to not retard intake valve timing enough for what would be needed on more boost, you could easily see why you would get a major detonation.
You can easily create a situation where the dynamic compression ratio would be way outside anything pump gas could withstand...
A large enough kaboom on the compression stroke = rod bending
I really think that some complex operations are occuring in the ECU between boost and intake valve timing. And piggy-backing that really messes with the dynamic compression ratio. Meaning that if the ECU thinks it only is getting 15psi and decides to not retard intake valve timing enough for what would be needed on more boost, you could easily see why you would get a major detonation.
I agree with laloosh, 11.5 afr's are much better to run. Especially since no one (outside of Cobb) at this time has full control of the ECU. With DI, variable intake valve timing, and a CR of 9.5:1, you are risking a lot running anything higher.
You can easily create a situation where the dynamic compression ratio would be way outside anything pump gas could withstand...
A large enough kaboom on the compression stroke = rod bending
I really think that some complex operations are occuring in the ECU between boost and intake valve timing. And piggy-backing that really messes with the dynamic compression ratio. Meaning that if the ECU thinks it only is getting 15psi and decides to not retard intake valve timing enough for what would be needed on more boost, you could easily see why you would get a major detonation.
according to cpe their map clip has no effect on a/f and timing...which i found wierd, but hey they made it so i assume they would know. However, it still sounds wierd to me
Another thing that i seem to be noticing is people bitching about stuttering/backfireing/cutting out ect at low rpms under wot. When some1 tells me "i floored my engine in 6th at 60mph" I loose all hope in them. Once you start playing with boost and adding power, you cant drive this car liek a stock car. Every single dyno i see is started at like 2500rpm...WHY. When the hell are you ever pushing your car at 2500rpm? If i ever do get dynoed 3500 and up, and once again, thats still kind of pushing it. People are adding all these mods and simply adding too much stress and load down low. I get a pm once a week prooving that peopel actually do drive like this.....boggles my mind. I test this on my car and it drives like s***, it feels liek the engine wants to rip out of the mounts when you floor it down low, i only did it for like 2 seconds. Another thing poeple must realize is that when they up the boost, change turbo, partial throttle driving is going to SUCK. You will spool up faster and to a higher psi than before, keep doing that and your a ticking time bomb. Once again these are just all my opinion and the reason why i think these engines (well the 6's) are blowing up.
lol...Come on now Laloosh. Are you proposing that the only place to drive the car is in the 3500-6200 rpm band under WOT. What a daily driver that would be. I know this at least partially directed at our dialogue....
If Im not supposed to drive partial throttle or WOT below 3000(which I dont).... that leaves open throttle in boost...lol. I love that spot but I think a car should be able to be driven gently, with an expectation of "normal" behavior... to be considered a success.
We're not talking about 10 sec drag cars here. We're talking about getting a daily driver into the 12's.
I agree with laloosh, 11.5 afr's are much better to run. Especially since no one (outside of Cobb) at this time has full control of the ECU. With DI, variable intake valve timing, and a CR of 9.5:1, you are risking a lot running anything higher.
You can easily create a situation where the dynamic compression ratio would be way outside anything pump gas could withstand...
A large enough kaboom on the compression stroke = rod bending
I really think that some complex operations are occuring in the ECU between boost and intake valve timing. And piggy-backing that really messes with the dynamic compression ratio. Meaning that if the ECU thinks it only is getting 15psi and decides to not retard intake valve timing enough for what would be needed on more boost, you could easily see why you would get a major detonation.
Meanwhile COBB is taking their sweet time to release the AP because they aren't going to rush to market like Microsoft did the 360 just to then have the rep tattered by, if nothing else, the sheer Billy-Bob-Job required to put the EMS into the car with tape and screws, a real 'bolt on' if you will.
When they say it'll be a while longer, I can wait because I know that means it'll be PLUG and PLAY with more power from a dynamic and well-tested tune, and they haven't missed /any/thing on the way to the market.
knowledge007
Banned
Another thing that i seem to be noticing is people bitching about stuttering/backfireing/cutting out ect at low rpms under wot. When some1 tells me "i floored my engine in 6th at 60mph" I loose all hope in them. Once you start playing with boost and adding power, you cant drive this car liek a stock car. Every single dyno i see is started at like 2500rpm...WHY. When the hell are you ever pushing your car at 2500rpm? If i ever do get dynoed 3500 and up, and once again, thats still kind of pushing it. People are adding all these mods and simply adding too much stress and load down low. I get a pm once a week prooving that peopel actually do drive like this.....boggles my mind. I test this on my car and it drives like s***, it feels liek the engine wants to rip out of the mounts when you floor it down low, i only did it for like 2 seconds. Another thing poeple must realize is that when they up the boost, change turbo, partial throttle driving is going to SUCK. You will spool up faster and to a higher psi than before, keep doing that and your a ticking time bomb. Once again these are just all my opinion and the reason why i think these engines (well the 6's) are blowing up.
As for the 6 guys spending more money then the 3 guys? Yea when you blow an engine, you kind of have no choice. Its either pay 10 grand for a stock engine or 5 for a built one.
In bold, those are my thoughts exactly. Someone even started a thread mentioning just that. (yawn)
Meanwhile COBB is taking their sweet time to release the AP because they aren't going to rush to market like Microsoft did the 360 just to then have the rep tattered by, if nothing else, the sheer Billy-Bob-Job required to put the EMS into the car with tape and screws, a real 'bolt on' if you will.
When they say it'll be a while longer, I can wait because I know that means it'll be PLUG and PLAY with more power from a dynamic and well-tested tune, and they haven't missed /any/thing on the way to the market.
Agreed. If our car cant be driven "normally" with just 330-340whp... then it is the fault of a s*** tune.... not an idiot driver.
And by normal I do include the ability to gently accelerate in 6th at 60 mph... without the car throwing codes and feeling like its about to explode.
Powerslave
Banned
- :
- mps 3
even with just a cia i would get fuel cut if i floor it in a high gear at 60mph, it puts too much load and stress on the engine and the turbo. I will not floor my car till i hit 3500-4000 rpm.
Darksun280
Member
- :
- MS3
lol...Come on now Laloosh. Are you proposing that the only place to drive the car is in the 3500-6200 rpm band under WOT. What a daily driver that would be. I know this at least partially directed at our dialogue....
If Im not supposed to drive partial throttle or WOT below 3000(which I dont).... that leaves open throttle in boost...lol. I love that spot but I think a car should be able to be driven gently, with an expectation of "normal" behavior... to be considered a success.
We're not talking about 10 sec drag cars here. We're talking about getting a daily driver into the 12's.
I think he means steeping on like 5th or 6th gear while under a certain RPM. I thought that was a given that your not supposed to do that. Like 6th gear at 35-40 and you just stand on the pedal...
Powerslave
Banned
- :
- mps 3
yeah it puts a tremendous load on the engine and the turbo
I think he means steeping on like 5th or 6th gear while under a certain RPM. I thought that was a given that your not supposed to do that. Like 6th gear at 35-40 and you just stand on the pedal...
First off Im not trying to be argumentative..
I know thats what he meant about WOT in those gears and at that rpm range. And I agree with that, and I understand how WOT in those gears is dumb even stock. Ive only done it a couple times to "test it out" when I had first installed the fuel pump. But it was also stated the partial throttle characteristics...."will suck"... as well, if you get a bigger turbo or in my case..... the fuel pump. Thats whats being alluded to, for all those who havent figured it out. I havent upped the boost or upgraded the turbo.... just the fuel pump.
What I am saying is that either with a bigger turbo or upped boost or new fuel pump.... that partial throttle driving at 2500 rpms in 5th and 6th should still respond somewhat normally. If its possible to "blow the engine" with partial acceleration in this rpm range than its a bad tune..... not a noob driving like an idiot.
Am I an idiot driver if I dont turn cruise contol off on a gradual incline if I have a bigger turbo/ or pump? Do 350-400hp neons buck, surge, or hesitate, if their drivers are on cruise control, with their girls, while also going up a hill?
Maybe Im sounding stupid. But if Im wrong about this expectation Im gonna trade the ******* thing in tomorrow for a V8.
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lol...Come on now Laloosh. Are you proposing that the only place to drive the car is in the 3500-6200 rpm band under WOT. What a daily driver that would be. I know this at least partially directed at our dialogue....
If Im not supposed to drive partial throttle or WOT below 3000(which I dont).... that leaves open throttle in boost...lol. I love that spot but I think a car should be able to be driven gently, with an expectation of "normal" behavior... to be considered a success.
We're not talking about 10 sec drag cars here. We're talking about getting a daily driver into the 12's.
this is not about you, i have over 300 pms. You want to drive you car the way you drove it when it was stock, run stock boost or get a full standalone to tune out every possible throttle/load position. IM never in boost unless im wot, it just how i drive my car, others obviously drive different.
First off Im not trying to be argumentative..
I know thats what he meant about WOT in those gears and at that rpm range. And I agree with that, and I understand how WOT in those gears is dumb even stock. Ive only done it a couple times to "test it out" when I had first installed the fuel pump. But it was also stated the partial throttle characteristics...."will suck"... as well, if you get a bigger turbo or in my case..... the fuel pump. Thats whats being alluded to, for all those who havent figured it out. I havent upped the boost or upgraded the turbo.... just the fuel pump.
What I am saying is that either with a bigger turbo or upped boost or new fuel pump.... that partial throttle driving at 2500 rpms in 5th and 6th should still respond somewhat normally. If its possible to "blow the engine" with partial acceleration in this rpm range than its a bad tune..... not a noob driving like an idiot.
Am I an idiot driver if I dont turn cruise contol off on a gradual incline if I have a bigger turbo/ or pump? Do 350-400hp neons buck, surge, or hesitate, if their drivers are on cruise control, with their girls, while also going up a hill?
Maybe Im sounding stupid. But if Im wrong about this expectation Im gonna trade the ******* thing in tomorrow for a V8.
srt4s dont have cruise control, 2nd of all this has nothing to do with the fuel pump, once you raise boost or alter the stock boost selanoid in an way you simply CANNOT BUILD BOOST UNDER PARTIAL THROTTLE. The boost will build to quick and too high. All turbo cars work like this, not just this one.
P.S. On the other forum i read, "my car hit boost cut from a 2k roll in 6th gear" lol, i dont get it. I think even a bone stock car might atuall hit fuel cut when you floor it that low in 6th
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2nd of all this has nothing to do with the fuel pump
Then were both talking about something different.
Ive never stomped 6th at 60. I have often pressed the accelerator partially there though. Maybe Im naive but most of the time Im not gonna downshift on grandma if Im going 60 and shes at 55.... Most highway driving includes lots of light braking or light acceleration, and I virtually never shift if its 55-65 mph.
Ive climbed mountain interstates at 55-75 on cruise control, problem free, without downshifting... I would hope 350 whp wouldnt change that. That to me would be a deal breaker for a daily driver if making a mistake in that power range could potentially pop the motor.
Thats all Im saying.
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