PG Pump Installed

[clos561]

it should because the computer doesnt read fuel drop and doesnt have to adjust to it by closing the throttle

 

[Jays07MS3]

it should because the computer doesnt read fuel drop and doesnt have to adjust to it by closing the throttle

Thats what I'm thinking too but I want some datalogs to back that up. And the Captain said that CP-E said that it didn't keep the throttle plate from closing. Just trying to clarify all of this (scratch)

 

[laloosh]

my throttle stays open longer. cpe is testing a 6 not a 3

 

[rodney]

i dont see why there would be a difference between the 3 or 6

 

[ATE BALLER]

There wouldn't. They have differently configured ECUs, but the program is essentially the same other than the limited 1st and 2nd gears in the 3.

 

[rodney]

so then why does laloosh say his throttle stays open longer but cpe says that it makes no difference on the 6

 

[TRSpeed3]

so then why does laloosh say his throttle stays open longer but cpe says that it makes no difference on the 6

x2???

 

[laloosh]

Laloosh says the throttle stays open longer becuase on laloosh's car the throttle stays open longer.

Here is my car. Lower line is stock pump hitting fuel cut, upper line is PG pump....make your own conclusions....numbers speak the truth

 

[fourthmeal]

I think its WILD how the voltage increases with the pump. Its as if you are actually getting more throttle opening throughout with this simple mod. Amazing!

This is the most perplexing thing about this car...why the hell didn't they just put in this other pump in the first place? They'd win more people over if they could hold redline, that's for sure. I think this will be one of my first mods because it seems the MS3 computer "likes" it, and allows for a much different performance profile just due to this one change.

 

[laloosh]

once again to make things clear. My stock pump was cutting out and dropping fuel thus causing lower throttle imputs. I have no way of testing a not maxed out stock pump, as mine cuts out.

 

[mrlilguy157]

once again - yay.

 

[Finkle]

Laloosh what device are u using to monitor ur throttle plate, is that with the standback?

 

[laloosh]

everything is datalogged with the standback

 

[Haltech]

Your lightning had twice the engine to work with also you have to remember that. I've seen the inside of Lightning engines and the inside of DISI engines and I can tell you that the mazdas are alot weaker and like said many times before it's not just AFR's that make your car run for ever. We have tuned the crap out of a Speed6 and can't get it past 330 AWHP because of limitations like Fuel and the throttle backing off. MY budy was pushing 511whp on his SRT-4 with a tune at roughly 10.5:1 and realy low EGT's but after about 4 months there went a few rods through his block and valves in the oil pan because the pressure you push at that point is going to put a shitload of pressure on those stock pistons.

Well if you want to compare an alumn block to an iron block, thats fine, but the internals in the lightning aside from the crank, are very weak. Now im not saying the stock shortblock can hold 425+.. what am i saying, i bet it hold 350-400 just fine if you arent beating the hell out of it, day in and day out.

Ken you of all people know that properly tuned cars that arent abuse do extend the expectations of their livelihood. If i blow my motor up, so be it, but its not going to be less than 350hp worth of power if it happens. Ill buy a shortblock from you but with higher compression

 

[Haltech]

Bull s***. Do you have one installed? Have you been driving around with one? Then shut the hell up because you don't know what the **** you're talking about. According to my fluid dynamics book, when you have a dual pump system (in series), and you increase the rate of one, it will in turn increase the rate of the other, regardless of what side of the system you upgrade. It's simple. If the CDFP has more fuel available to it at a faster rate and higher pressure, then the force it is exerting on the fuel (which is controlled ONLY by the speed of the camshaft) will move more of it faster and at a higher pressure. I'm not saying it solves everything but I have installed one, and it does make things a hell of alot smoother. I didn't reset my battery when I did it, so I know it's not the ECU ******* with me. The gurgling and poping has calmed down quite a bit, and it feels a bit torque-ier. On top of that, I haven't triggered a fuel cut once since I removed my ATP Boost Cut Eliminator (a day and a half after swapping pumps) even though it's dropped 45*F since the swap. I'd say it's a little more than a waste of time and money. How about the next time you want to make claims about something with which you have no experience, you just don't. That would really make things better.

Bust out your paypal accnt address and ill place money on this right now youngster... I have more experience than your age... (pow). Im glad you have a fluid dynamics book... but i want to introduce you to a guy named " Murphy " and how he can spoil ANY text book equation. You can throw 4 pumps together in a series all you like to increase VOLUME, but it will NOT increase pressure. VOLUME is NOT the problem with the MS3 or MS6, its PRESSURE, which is solely handled by the work of the cam driven high pressure pump on the engine! So you go ahead and wire those pumps in the tank for us, than come back with your results. Ill expect a full apology from your immature, adolescent behavior. Im not willing to take your word on your in-tank solution because i know it doesnt work. Got any before and after datalogs? Didnt think so (blah)

 

[palerider]

I think this will be one of my first mods because it seems the MS3 computer "likes" it, and allows for a much different performance profile just due to this one change.

lol. 12.9@111 would certainly lead us to believe that the ECU "adores" this mod. Either that or Laloosh is screwing around with "naws" on the "down low". Come on Laloosh which is it

And BTW.... I ordered th pump today. I wonder what I'll notice with my current mods? Should be interesting.

I also ordered the turbo manifold and plan on PNP and downpipe after the new year.

This thread has got me off my ass for sure. Laloosh needs a sponsor... hes making people some damn money.

 

[Jays07MS3]

UPDATE:

Just out of curiosity, i logged a few runs today to see what the fuel pressure was doing on a basically stock car (just CAI). It seems that, at least for my car, that pressure is staying constant all the way to close to redline. And even so, my throttle plate is closing like a mofo.

So what I want to know is how putting this new pump on a basically stock car will increase performance? Since I'm not dropping fuel pressure like laloosh is, why would this mod keep my throttle plate open? Ken, when you get the datalogs please post them up. Hopefully you'll be doing a few logs/run on basically stock cars cuz I'm sure there are a lot of people including myself that are wondering what the gains will be with no other mods.

Anyways, heres my log:

 

[matsuda]

So what I want to know is how putting this new pump on a basically stock car will increase performance?

The simple answer is that it wouldn't.
Your datalog proves it.

 

[matsuda]

Laloosh says the throttle stays open longer becuase on laloosh's car the throttle stays open longer.

Here is my car. Lower line is stock pump hitting fuel cut, upper line is PG pump....make your own conclusions....numbers speak the truth

That data has very little meaning without knowing the conditions of exactly how is was obtained.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

The simple answer is that it wouldn't.
Your datalog proves it.

his datalog proves that stock fuel pressure remains constant on stock boost and nothing more. it says nothing for what would happen if more fuel pressure was available.

Just out of curiosity, i logged a few runs today to see what the fuel pressure was doing on a basically stock car (just CAI). It seems that, at least for my car, that pressure is staying constant all the way to close to redline. And even so, my throttle plate is closing like a mofo.

So what I want to know is how putting this new pump on a basically stock car will increase performance? Since I'm not dropping fuel pressure like laloosh is, why would this mod keep my throttle plate open? Ken, when you get the datalogs please post them up. Hopefully you'll be doing a few logs/run on basically stock cars cuz I'm sure there are a lot of people including myself that are wondering what the gains will be with no other mods.

Anyways, heres my log:

i don't know that i'd recommend the pump for a stock vehicle or for someone who wants to remain stock. you would not need the benefit of added fuel pressure for a stock car that already runs rich from the factory. the shortcomings of the stock pump reveal themselves once you start demanding incrementally more from it.

laloosh is pushing a pound or two more boost with a full exhaust (no intake) . is this enough to start taxing the stock pump? perhaps it is. mazda is pretty good about engineering their cars to do so much and nothing more in my experience. what the pump has done for laloosh for example is what we had heard from mrlilguy - the throttle plate, while not remaining completely open, remains more open and for a longer period of time at the level of boost he is pushing with the modifications he is running VS the same modifications and conditions with a stock pump.

i do not nor have i ever felt that the throttle plate is controlled by one lone input. if that were the case it would be a rudimentary addition to an XEDE or Standback to clamp/control it. i do think that available fuel pressure and wideband AFR affects the throttle plate among other factors, and those are some things that this pump will affect, in turn it seems affecting the plate. is this to say that this pump would not benefit a stock car? i won't say that off hand. your fuel pressure does indeed remain constant. however incrementally higher boost requires incrementally higher fuel pressure to maintain proper AFRs. while your power output is increasing as you approach redline, your fuel pressure is not. so as i said, the car could be - stock mind you - at a limit by mazda's own design. will having more fuel pressure on tap cure the throttle plate - stock vehicle or modified? no. will it help a great deal in terms of opening up potential horsepower? yes.

the fact that five tenths of a second was shaved off and he hit 111 on snow tires at the dragstrip is a monumental achievement. honestly i'm pretty shocked that the addition of the pump would more or less do that. i too would like to see what happens on a stock or mostly stock car. right now i do not have a stock ms3 here nor the pump supplies to accommodate that. i would need a stock ms3 with nothing more than a standback basically, and where I am located at thats not available right now.