Difference in Suspensions

[Armyguy1104]

You speak as though the weight differences are dramatic when in fact it is only a 269 lb difference. So maybe if you had the MS6 at full capacity then yes it would be dangerous but I for one do not drive around with 5 people and a trunk full of crap. 269 lbs could be 1.5 people, or one passenger and some (albeit rather heavy) items in the back. IE speakers / subs inside of enclosures + more.

 

[chuyler1]

Weight difference is only 269 but weight distribution is another story. The only complaints I have heard about the Eibachs on speed6's was that the rear was sloppy.

...but regardless, unless you take your stock speed6 to the track you really can't begin to appreciate its suspension and handling capabilities. At least I hope you aren't taking it to the limits on public roads. So likewise with a spring upgrade, you won't really know whether it was an improvement in handling unless you take it to the track. Straight line driving and your right hand turn into the coffee shop aren't going to change all that much except the ride will be a little more rough due to the decreased suspension travel.

 

[Japan8]

You speak as though the weight differences are dramatic when in fact it is only a 269 lb difference. So maybe if you had the MS6 at full capacity then yes it would be dangerous but I for one do not drive around with 5 people and a trunk full of crap. 269 lbs could be 1.5 people, or one passenger and some (albeit rather heavy) items in the back. IE speakers / subs inside of enclosures + more.

269 lbs is significant. Spare tires don't weight anything near that, but people often are taking them and sometimes their backseat out before running at the track.

Ever seen a MS6 on a hard launch or a video of one? And you want to get springs that don't help tighten up the rear end and with weight transfer? (headshake

 

[Armyguy1104]

"Eibach doesn't give a rats ass about their "reputation". They are a business and thus here to make money. "

Are you serious? You are saying companies don't care about their reps, especially one that well known in the automotive world. When a company doesn't care about their reps they may sell alot initially but if continue to disappoint they will not have return customers if they do not take care of them.


Anyhow as for weight distribution if I were to look at it logically the rear would be heavier in the MS6 therefore making it "stick" better do to the amount of weight pushing down, this being for launch purposes, for autocross I would understand the rear end slinging out more.

I guess we can come to an agreement that while the Eibachs may not be best for autocross they serve the purpose that myself as well as others were looking for and that is for everyday driving and giving it a lowered stance / center of gravity. Like you said most wont be able to tell by everyday turning, there definitely is an improvement however slight it may be, and I can tell this by being able to turn at a higher rate of speed without it getting sloppy, including doing a U-turn.

Also I was on the highway playing around, the beltway up here in the DC metro area is pretty curvy btw, and the back end did start to get lose on me with the stock suspension and I have yet to feel that with the Eibachs. (It was late with no one else around me by the way.) Wouldn't the result of less body roll contribute to the vehicle not getting squirrely just because the body of the car is staying put instead of rocking back and forth therefore not throwing it off balance when you do cut back into the other direction?

 

[Japan8]

"Eibach doesn't give a rats ass about their "reputation". They are a business and thus here to make money. "

Are you serious? You are saying companies don't care about their reps, especially one that well known in the automotive world. When a company doesn't care about their reps they may sell alot initially but if continue to disappoint they will not have return customers if they do not take care of them.

Are you really that naieve about the nature of businesses? Eibach isn't going to sell faulty springs, but that doesn't mean they aren't going to sell springs that have an inadequate spring rate or that are "more show than go". Guys who are into hard core track racing and autocross wouldn't be using Eibach springs, they'd be picking up Tein, HKS, Billstein, etc. coilovers... because they are simply better. So those who are buying Eibachs are many times going to end up being someone who isn't very knowledgable about suspensions and handling.

Here's an excellent real-life example... K&N released an intake for the RX-8. It was essentially a giant filter on a stick. This intake caused idle problems and stalling, particularly when in heavy traffic during the summer. A later revision added a heat shield to help try to keep the hot air away from the the intake... but the problems still persisted. Finally K&N re-designed the intake and the problems seemed to have been solved. This whole thing took considerably some time. It could have been avoided in the beginning simply by K&N doing proper R&D when designing the intake. They have a "reputation" as a major aftermarket company, etc., but really, it's all about the money, so they cut corners.

Anyhow as for weight distribution if I were to look at it logically the rear would be heavier in the MS6 therefore making it "stick" better do to the amount of weight pushing down, this being for launch purposes, for autocross I would understand the rear end slinging out more.

That's not quite right. When looking at launching, weight transfer is what you should be looking at and from that perspective, a softer rear end is better for the rear end to hook up... on a RWD car. AWD... And added weight will only slow you down ultimately... far outweighing any possible traction benefits.

I guess we can come to an agreement that while the Eibachs may not be best for autocross they serve the purpose that myself as well as others were looking for and that is for everyday driving and giving it a lowered stance / center of gravity. Like you said most wont be able to tell by everyday turning, there definitely is an improvement however slight it may be, and I can tell this by being able to turn at a higher rate of speed without it getting sloppy, including doing a U-turn.

Also I was on the highway playing around, the beltway up here in the DC metro area is pretty curvy btw, and the back end did start to get lose on me with the stock suspension and I have yet to feel that with the Eibachs. (It was late with no one else around me by the way.) Wouldn't the result of less body roll contribute to the vehicle not getting squirrely just because the body of the car is staying put instead of rocking back and forth therefore not throwing it off balance when you do cut back into the other direction?

This I suppose we can agree on. As long as you are going for almost entirely looks, then any of the springs that are not actually designed for the MS6 would do the job (lowering your car). Things like handling and the life of your stock shocks... well that's another story.

 

[DSMConvert]

Eibach are a good spring...quality wise...haven't used them on a mazda so I can't speak to the particular situation. As far a repuatation and such...eibach, as well as many other mfg derive their application guides based on what fits, not what is the best performing product. The ms6 shares many of the same mounting hardware as the stock 6, meaning that a 6 spring will indeed fit and work...which is what eibach goes by. Whether they work properly or are the best option is another discussion. As its already been pointed out the weight isn't the most prevalent issue. Its the suspension geometry differences caused by fwd load/unload vs. awd load/unload. A few years ago myself and my friend were setting up our cars for the next race season. The only difference between our cars was that I was awd and he was a fwd(both 98 eclipse turbos and both being setup for the same conditions) and each car required a very different spring setup. Sure both springs were interchangeable, but each worked best on a specific type of drive system.

 

[Japan8]

DSMConvert said it better... and has been the point all along.

 

[chuyler1]

Ok folks, just a little update. After several months running on the Megans they have softened up considerably in the rear. I went on a road trip with my wife and two friends. We had maybe 100lbs of luggage in the back plus 100lbs of audio gear (my stereo), and she was almost riding on the bump stops. Any bump in the road would smack the bump stops and the overall ride quality was nauseating. My friends equated it to riding in the back row of a school bus with worn out suspension.

I'll be swapping out the Megans this weekend when I switch over to my winter wheels and tires.

 

[AndrewW]

That is one low ride.

 

[doogie]

Anyone tried cutting 1 coil off all four stock springs? I am so Il let you know.

 

[VRMS6]

^^^not only is that ghetto but inherently dangerous....^^

 

[chuyler1]

umm, yeah i wouldn't recommend that.

 

[doogie]

umm, yeah i wouldn't recommend that.

Explain to me why would that be. Note I said one coil.

 

[doogie]

^^^not only is that ghetto but inherently dangerous....^^

If the spring is cut properly cut (aligned) and the spring end angle cut to sit in its chair what would be the problem. The suspension drop would be about 1"-1.5" and which would retain the factory ride with just being a little more taut. Shave the bump stops and it should work fine...but I guess you would be thinking ghetto ricer if I don't buy springs eh? Tell you what I wont say a word..how is that?

 

[chuyler1]

Here is a photo of a rear spring in a Mazda6 (this is actually a Megan Racing spring, not stock):

Can you see why I don't recommend it? Both the top and bottom coils are narrower than the rest. If you were to cut one of them off the spring would no longer sit properly. It would jiggle around as you drove making some kind of horrible knocking noise...and that is if you manage to get it installed at all.

 

[doogie]

Here is a photo of a rear spring in a Mazda6 (this is actually a Megan Racing spring, not stock):

Can you see why I don't recommend it? Both the top and bottom coils are narrower than the rest. If you were to cut one of them off the spring would no longer sit properly. It would jiggle around as you drove making some kind of horrible knocking noise...and that is if you manage to get it installed at all.

Makes sense now. If it had been a straight up and down spring it would have been possible. Thanks for the info.

 

[chuyler1]

Yes it would have been possible, but often times people don't cut them evenly and the dampening is never quite right. You end up with a bouncy car that is raked (front, rear, left, right, who knows).

 

[Japan8]

chuyler1... well... that sucks. I actually didn't think the Megans would turn out THAT badly. Guess that shows proper spring rates is really important.

I've got the RPM sport springs and they rock. Handling is sweet and ride quality actually feels more stable over really bad roads. I also am very happy with my drop. If you gotta have more drop, the street springs should do it for you. I believe that RPM is supposed to be getting stuff in stock again soon...

 

[chuyler1]

Yeah, I think the advertised spring rate for the Megans is off because in theory they should have been stiffer than anything else. The only stiff part about them was slamming against the bump stops. I'll pick up a set of RPMs when they become available and this spring I'll switch over. I could use the additional ride height for the winter and swapping out springs on this car is a breeze, especially the rear.

 

[Prison]

SO whats the best springs to buy for the car??