Why Mazdaspeed has no mods for us?

[loj68]

I consider myself very well educated regarding cars but not quite down to the very granular technical stuff (specifically turbo's and compression ratios) so I wanted to run this by you guys........

On the SRT forum there was a post where someone said that the MSP engine can't be tuned up and boosted all that much because of it's compression ratio's. They say that's why Mazdaspeed doesn't have any engine mods yet but Dodge has the Stage 1 and Stage 2 kits that are putting out 260hp at the wheels and running in the 12's with no significant issues with reliability and still being under warranty (plus you can get both stages for a total of less than $2k). Is Mazda worried that we're gonna blow up the MSP's if they give is PCM's and jack up the boost?

 

[mp3moose]

Couple things here:
1. Dodge built the neon engine specifically for high boost. Thus including hardcore internals and oil squirters and whatnot. The MSP was just a protege engine developed years before hand.

2. MSP compression ratio is 9.1:1. Which is relatively boost friendly. Ideal ratios vary from car to car, but 8-9 is usually considered applicable for turbocharged applications.
However, with the lack of forged internals mazda can't do much by way of turning up the boost. Again, forged isn't for every engine, but as this forum has shown, several peeps lacking beefy pistons and rods tend to go boom after so much pressure.

Moose

 

[loj68]

that's what I was afraid of.....so it doesn't seem like there's really much Mazdaspeed can give us that will show significant performance gain without sacraficing reliability. It's not really a HUGE deal to me really because I've always been quite happy with the speed of the MSP......but it sure is nice to be able to put in factory performance mods that don't mess with reliability or warranties.....if that were the case with my MSP I'd be more tempted to maybe mod it (I'm sure the wife wouldn't mind since it's hers) but honestly if a mod doesn't say "Mazda" on it I probably won't put it on.......at least on the engine anyway.

 

[DevilsSi1481]

yeah iunno about everyone else but to me it seems like Mazdaspeed doesnt wanna put anything out for the MSPs but i could be wrong who knows what they r thinking or not.

 

[EvilMSP]

It can't be just because of the compression, there has to be more to it. If the compression was too high stock you could always put new smaller pistons in it to lower the compression.

Most of the cars I have seen with beefy turbo's on them use low compression heads. Anyone else also notice this trend?

 

[MazdaDryvr]

If you get a good FMIC and up the boost just a few PSI (where its still safe) you could be running anywhere from 190hp + at the wheel. Many dyno charts have been posted here that show this. To me, that would be plenty considering that the stock MSP dyno's 151hp at the wheel. If you need more power than that perhaps you need a diffferent car.

 

[YuYuRena]

I bought the MSP for the fun factor. When I want a track car and go super fast with a good internal, I'm going for a s14 with a rb25det in it. hehe, that's like 5 years down the line

 

[boostisgood]

Theroeticly, you can run as much boost that the internals can stand the PRESSURE. What I mean by this is easy. Say the rods, pistons, rings, crank can deal with 20 psi of pressure. IF you can tune the fuel, and spark, youi can run the 20 psi.

The msp internals are not that beefy, they probably could handle 14 psi tops, and this is with significant tuning, to avoid detonation.

 

[unwrittenLaw]

I think Ford sabatoged the MSP, so the Fukus could get ahead..

 

[twizyours]

Was the turbo even mad overseas. Second I believe Mazdaspped itself is originally overseas. Also wasnt it its own company recently purchased byt mazda. Also wasnt vrtually intended more for racing. Like also how they have performance mazdaspeed parts moverseas for the na sport20 but none here. Just a crappy expensive muffler. Just curiosity. Mazda is just try using mazdspeed logo fo sales sakes and I think is still in process of using the new aquired company. Anybody please correct me on any wrong info. Also why would you listen to dodge talking about a mazda. Probally dont even know much about our car. Doesnt dodge also seel peformance parts for the old neons which after like 4 to 5 years just start falling apart. Hmmmm just wondering.

 

[Cirielle]

I think Ford sabatoged the MSP, so the Fukus could get ahead..

I agree!
But it is also a new trend by car manufactors to have aftermarket add ons. 2 years ago that was rare. Mazda is usually behind on a lot of things. So maybe 2 years from now they will have something for us!

 

[Kenetix]

Mazdaspeed has been a part of Mazda for over 20 years, this isnt something newly acquired.

 

[Cirielle]

Mazdaspeed has been a part of Mazda for over 20 years, this isnt something newly acquired.

Yes, but that is different than offering aftermarket parts as well. Look at NISMO. They just recently offered stuff for the Spec V's and they have been out for 2 years now!
Before that the Spec guys had to get parts from other companies and still they have a hard time getting parts!
Plus the Spec is not a limited run (i.e. not a numbered specialty run).

 

[TheMAN]

umm... last time I checked, mazdaspeed was bought out by mazda in 1998

Mazdaspeed has been a part of Mazda for over 20 years, this isnt something newly acquired.

 

[boostisgood]

Mazdaspeed, in essence, is thier own entity. Yes, they are controlled by mazda, but pretty much do alot without the need for MAzdas stamp of approvale.

Understand this please. The MSP was JUST a regular protege when shipped from the land of the rising sun. When it got to port, is when the turbo klit, sounds, rims, spoiler, sparco stuff was put on, BY MAZDASPEED NORTH AMERICA. Remember the Yenko Camaro, It was not a yenko when it rolled off the assembly line. It was a regular Camaro, IT was shipped to Yenko Chevy dealer, put together by them, and then shipped to the individual lots for sale.

What is going on here is easy, Mazdaspeed has been around forever, in Japan. The basically do all the racing stuff for MAZDA JAPAN, and now Mazda NA wants that presense here. Hense the Mazdaspeed protege. There will be much more offering s from MAZDASPEED NA in the future, the MSP basically was a mule, to see what the team in North America can do.

 

[twizyours]

Thanks that was what I was implying. Also trying to shoe the difference between car manufaturers and all the aftermaRKET STUFF. Also to riginall post dodge also offer intakes exhausts and so on for the old neons too but after 3- 5 years those cars start falling apart. Hey they dont care your warranty will be up by then and not out of their product. Also they are probally thinking they are going to do it anyway why not by our stuff. (dont know my theory). Also Mazda never really ran like that and is also finally getting back to their racing and sports roots. It it is still a building process it seems to me that will hopefully not stop.

 

[xtrememps]

Its not that hard to bulletproof a mazdaspeed block..boost it up,tune it etc and get 300 hp+ with it.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

Its not that hard to bulletproof a mazdaspeed block..boost it up,tune it etc and get 300 hp+ with it

thats definetely oversimplyfying the issue. firstly, you need more effective fuel and timing control which is difficult thanks to the ECU. secondly, there is no way that the stock bottom end of the engine will handle, long term, over 250 hp. you will need forged rods and pistons to say the least. not only is all of this work hard, but its incredibly expensive and doesn't even guarantee "bulletproofness" for your engine.

 

[twizyours]

bulletproof a mazdaspeed block..boost it up,tune it etc and get 300 hp+ with it.

 

[YuYuRena]

To bullet proof something doesn't mean it has to be forge rods and pistons there are other ways to strengthen the materials. Also forged parts are not always good, they have higher thermal expansion coefficient. For example on the piston, they would need more clearance for the rings to seal and at cold temp. that could lead to leaks.