The Brake Job from Hell

[MazdaSpeeder]

So, it all started a week ago Monday when I started changing out my rear rotors for Centric E-Coated blanks and replacing my rear pads with Stoptech Street Performance. The driver's side went well, despite my expectation that it would be the worst. Once I got to the passenger side, the allen gear that retracts the piston wouldn't turn and stripped. So I tried removing the allen gear from the driver's side caliper and stripped it too. Time for a new caliper.

I found one at Pep Boys and on Monday, I brought it over to my friend's house (no working on cars in my apt. complex) and started the work at 3:15 or so. I got the hardware transferred over ok and struggled with the pads for a while, but I was on track to get stuff done and get home for dinner at 6:30. Swapped out calipers and noticed a slight brake fluid leak, but I realized I had left off a washer, so I replaced that and started to bleed the caliper. There was a bit of dripping, but I wasn't too worried about it (figured I would just need to tighten the brake line a bit more). Got the caliper bled and that's when things went south.

When I tried to pull out of the driveway, the pedal went all the way to the floor and fluid started spurting out of the caliper. It was the seal around the E-Brake hook...bad (new) caliper. There goes dinner. I went back to Pep Boys, and they didn't have another caliper in stock or in their warehouse. So I went to Autozone, who had the caliper, picked it up for more than I wanted to spend, and went back to my friend's house.

Swapped out the caliper, hooked up the line and was super nervous that i was going to have another problem and not have a stopping car...but we bled and it worked! I didn't get the piston adjusted correctly at first, so my E-Brake was all screwed up, but I fixed that with a few turns of the allen today, and all is well. Except that I am finding more travel with the pedal, which leads me to think that I need to bleed more, or bleed all the caliper when I was hoping to just get away with the passenger rear. I may just pay someone to do it if I can get it done cheap...I'm done with brakes for a while. I got home about 9:30 that night...6 hours is WAY too long to spend on one caliper, rotor and set of pads.

That's my story...it was not fun, and I am glad it's over.

 

[nickster]

WOW... just did my breaks and I thought just trying to find the allen key was hell. You got patience bro. I would've probably drove that shyt into a lake and blamed the breaks!

 

[CheeseHelmet]

Don't feel bad, it took me about 2-3 days to do my rear brakes. A good chunk of the time was spent trying to repair my driver-side caliper which was completely seized (I ended up buying a new one).

I've learned that my estimates for getting work done are often wrong, so I just double my estimate and feel good if I finish early. Setting early deadlines (especially if you're doing an unfamiliar job) will just frustrate you when they go flying past. Next time if you think it's going to take you one afternoon, give yourself two and take your time

As for the bleeding, if you have 90 minutes to kill you can get it done (all 4 lines). There's nothing special about what a garage will do, it's the same procedure. And regarding the parking brake, I found that after a couple hundred kilometers I had to adjust the rear pistons (using the allen key gear thingie) because I guess everything had finally worn in which resulted in a little too much play in the parking brake. I could have also just adjusted the nut on the parking brake itself, but where's the fun in that?

 

[Stickman]

I don't have the patience or skill that you guys have, so I'll have a shop do mine.

Couple of Questions for all of you out there:

1) I've been told that bleeding by pumping the brakes can damage the master brake cylinder. Using a vacuum brake exchange system is better.

Is that true?

2) How much fluid does it take to completely flush system?

Thanks

 

[Tom03es]

I grease my caliper slide pins when I take off my winter wheels. I've had problems with my left rear seizing up. Keeping the slide pins clean and lubed seems to be good preventative maintenance.

 

[Tom03es]

Couple of Questions for all of you out there:

1) I've been told that bleeding by pumping the brakes can damage the master brake cylinder. Using a vacuum brake exchange system is better.

Is that true?

Why? You pump your brakes during normal operation. If while bleeding the brakes, you let too much fluid drain out of the system and the master cylinder starts ingestion air, that won't really damage it either- you just have more air to bleed out.

It probably takes a quart or 2 to flush the system. The lines don't hold much fluid.

 

[MazdaSpeeder]

I don't have the patience or skill that you guys have, so I'll have a shop do mine.

Couple of Questions for all of you out there:

1) I've been told that bleeding by pumping the brakes can damage the master brake cylinder. Using a vacuum brake exchange system is better.

Lol...it felt more like luck than anything else. As for the brake bleeding procedure, bleeding by pumping is exactly how the shop manual describes the procedure. Tom03es is right...there's no danger of damaging your system.

 

[flash75]

A full flush will require a little over one 12 oz. bottle of fluid. you can reduce the
amount of fluid required by using a syringe or a vacuum pump to empty the master
cylinder reservoir. Fill and bleed. Pedal pumping is OK, vacuum pumps for bleeding
have given me mixed results. They can draw air around the loosened bleeder screw.

Most garages use a pressure bleeder to bleed brakes. It's a one person operation
and is quick. You can build an inexpensive bleeder from a hardware small sprayer.
Here is a link.
http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm

For the OP, a low soft pedal can be caused by air in the system. If you change a caliper
in the rear you should bleed both calipers. The brake feed pipe from the master cylinder is a single line to the rear axle on most cars where it branches out of a tee to each caliper. It's difficult to keep some fluid from draining out of the main feed pipe.

If the pedal is firm and low the problem is probably incorrect adjustment of the caliper
piston. It doesn't take much adjustment to make a big difference in pedal height and
hand brake operation.

FWIW; It doesn't make a sense to upgrade brake discs and pads unless you flush out
the old fluid. Old moisture contaminated fluid will quickly cause brake fade under hard driving conditions and make the brake improvements useless. Brake fluid should be replaced every two-three years. More frequently if you drive hard enough for the brakes to overheat.

Clifton

 

[P-Funk!]

OP: Did the caliper issue with new pads? If so - can i have them?

(I need just ONE set (inner and outer) of rear pads - awhile ago my caliper (siezed) and the new one came with pads - but i didn't need them and kept them... It is kinda' like trying to only buy ONE shoe at a store )

 

[MazdaSpeeder]

Nope, the caliper didn't come with new pads...sorry! As for changing out the fluid, It bled very clean...I'm not too worried about the age of it. After I bed in the pads I'm going to decide whether or not I need to really do some more bleeding. After driving it a little more, I'm not so sure that I really am experiencing a greater pedal travel than previous.

 

[wildo]

Nope, the caliper didn't come with new pads...sorry!

I just learned recently that this is distinguished by the term "loaded" or "unloaded". A loaded caliper is sold with the pads in place- a straight up bolt on. An unloaded caliper is sold as just the caliper itself- no pads or anything.

 

[Stickman]

P-Funk,
Thought you were running HAWK pads.
Are you going back to standard pads?

 

[Action Jackson]

P-Funk,
Thought you were running HAWK pads.
Are you going back to standard pads?
If so, are HAWKS not that big of a difference in performance?

The Hawk HP pads are good for street and light track use. Same with the KVR Carbons.

The HP+ are too much for the street, too much noise and dust. Great stopping power though.

 

[P-Funk!]

P-Funk,
Thought you were running HAWK pads.
Are you going back to standard pads?

I am... But i do have these perfectly good pads laying around and i am 'frugal'...

'Cheap' is nasty!(yupnope)
'Frugal' sounds like a virtue (encourage

 

[Chad]

Great looks like i have my hands full when i get back from deployment, my wife says the front left caliper is seized, and the back breaks need replacing, looks like my first weekend home is shot!!

 

[slavrenz]

Couple of Questions for all of you out there:

1) I've been told that bleeding by pumping the brakes can damage the master brake cylinder. Using a vacuum brake exchange system is better.

Is that true?

Thanks

The fear is that if you continually bottom out the brake pedal while pumping out old fluid, you'll force the master cylinder piston into areas it doesn't normally travel, which may have accumulated debris and other crap from the brake fluid. It is then possible that this debris could scratch that master cylinder piston seals and cause an internal leak.

I usually stick a small block of wood under my brake pedal to prevent this for peace of mind.