I'm Back...

[mikesmazda155]

Mine was smoking pretty bad. It was at it's worst when the A/C was on and when I hit the throttle. There are ways to lower the oil pressure, but you should see what pressure it's running at before you do that. Someone else with a turbo also needs to check their oil pressure to see what the norm is.

Ok I work at a shop I will put it on a lift and try to get the pressure, just one problem, HOW do you do that? Also do you think if I lowered the size of the inlet from 1/4 to 1/8 (to maybe lower the volume of oil going to the turbo) if so where could a person come accross this line? I don't think lowering the size will make that much of a difference, but a friend of mine with a turbo Civic is running a 1/8 inch inlet line and he is not having any problems. Let me know what you guys think?

 

[PRO 5]

Out with the bad and in with the good! I got my blown motor out last night. You can see right threw the block! Talk about buzz saw, that is exactly what the rod did when it snapped off the piston. You can see right through the engine. I wish I had my engine mounts right now. It would be soooo easy to put it on. Well I have to get back to work! Later!!!

Dave

 

[LinuxRacr]

Dave, one question, how long were you under boost before you blew? Was it longer than 30 seconds?

 

[spoolinmp3]

Its my understanding he was continiously boosting thru all the gears momentarily getting out of boost when he was shifting

 

[Keith@FP]

About the oil smoke - if you have a flat spot in your oil drain line, the foamed oil will back up into the turbo and get past the seals. Voila, oil smoke. Check your return line first.

As for the boom, well, the best way to kill an engine is poor tuning. Keep in mind that if you're running the stock ECU, it's pulling fuel out under closed loop conditions. So it's possible that the damage was long-term. I've pulled bent rods out of cars that didn't do anything spectacular but had simply been knocking for some time. Mind you, under a worst-case scenario such as described, the weakened rods would be most likely to go.

Add to that the non-adjustability of the Vortech FMU and it's only a matter of time.

Keith

 

[1sty]

About the oil smoke - if you have a flat spot in your oil drain line, the foamed oil will back up into the turbo and get past the seals. Voila, oil smoke. Check your return line first.

As for the boom, well, the best way to kill an engine is poor tuning. Keep in mind that if you're running the stock ECU, it's pulling fuel out under closed loop conditions. So it's possible that the damage was long-term. I've pulled bent rods out of cars that didn't do anything spectacular but had simply been knocking for some time. Mind you, under a worst-case scenario such as described, the weakened rods would be most likely to go.

Add to that the non-adjustability of the Vortech FMU and it's only a matter of time.

Keith

Thanks Keiths, now I can go change my pants.

I was a litle worried there.

 

[Keith@FP]

Well, I wouldn't recommend over 6 psi with the current fuel setup for the FM kits either. That's what we've been saying for a while on our website. I'd feel better with improved fuel control for higher boost.

Keith

 

[spoolinmp3]

Well, I wouldn't recommend over 6 psi with the current fuel setup for the FM kits either. That's what we've been saying for a while on our website. I'd feel better with improved fuel control for higher boost.

I agree with this. Anything over really 6 psi is pushing it with out accurate timing and fuel control. And coupling all of the aggravating circumstances that PRO5 dealt with (8psi/800lbs load/cold weather/5th gear wot run w/ a big turbo) this further reinforces this. The FMU that Dave was using was a Vortech 12:1 FMU. The vortech FMU's are adjustable, however unlike the begi's that have an adjustable screw the vortechs adjust with an adjustable calibration kit. You can adjust the the FMU from a 2:1 ratio to 12:1 pig rich ratio. This is the same FMU that I supply with my kits and these units are perhaps the most extensivivly used units in the industry ranging from supercharged mustangs to turboed hondas. Just for reference. When we prototyped our non-intercooled kit at 4 psi the 12:1 FMU was dumping to much fuel causing an overly rich condition. We use an 8:1 ratio for 4 psi.

Again any type of FMU, FPR, AFPR is not an accurate means of controlling fuel. Its just that on a low boost setup (6psi and lower)you can "get away" with not using accurate fuel control. 8 psi is pushing the limit especially if you experience any of or a combination of factors such as high altitude, low grade octane fuel or high humidity ect.

 

[Keith@FP]

Thanks, Terry. I didn't know much about the FMUs.

Keith

 

[1sty]

I'll have to order the cat replacing down pipe to have an excuse to turn down the boost.
I take it you don't believe the FM or more accuratly the BEGI kit system is capable of 8 PSI even with 94 octane fuel?

 

[Antoine]

Don't you have to limit the amount of time you're at full boost? Especially on an engine designed for NA duty...even with proper tuning...the amount of heat and pressure in the cylinders becomes unbearable after so many seconds...does this make any sense...trying to relate this to what I read in Maximum Boost.

Does this have anything to do with PRO 5's mishap?

 

[spoolinmp3]

Yes an engine that is not specifically engineered for F/I should not be subjected to prolonged boost runs due to the oem components are not able to witstand the added heat and stress of boost. I think in Maximum boost, I remember Corky stating that the average time limit of car on full boost is like 20-30 seconds. Does not sound like alot but think about it......lets say the average turbo pro runs the quarter in 15 secs from a standstill. By time 30 secs elapsed you just covered a little more than 1/2 mile and are well into 5th gear. So yes this does play a role, however I am unsure exactly how fast David was going ect since I was not there, but I do know that he was in 5th gear. We will really never know though if he was running lean because he did not have a wideband 02 or if the timing was just to advanced for the conditions that were present. Maybe he was detonating but he did not hear it because his (windows were cracked open, radio on or the car was just so damn loud at that speed)

This is why I am always so paranoid. Whenever somebody talks to me about turboing there car I always recomend a wideband or atleast an egt.

 

[70]

Interestingly, the Mazdaspeed Protege is running 9 psi with bigger injectors...I think the motor is pretty much the stock FS-DE motor (since it is being called the FS-DET). I'm not sure what changes were made inside to handle the boost. If there were any changes at all.

I think they are relying on the ECU to handle everything.

 

[1sty]

At my last check the MSP was running 5.9 PSI

 

[70]

At my last check the MSP was running 5.9 PSI

From what I've heard tech manuals say other wise...I got smacked by it on the other Protege board...I can post the link to the thread to show.

Edwin (TheMAN) knows what he's talking about. I'm thinking he knows what's up since he got it from the tech manuals.

Volumetric efficiency is the problem in the MSP.

 

[Keith@FP]

You're certainly safer with the 94 octane, no question there.

Keith

 

[1sty]

Keith in your opinion do I need to lower the boost to 6 or is it OK at 8. I know its somewhat of a guess but it a much better guess then mine.

Stutter,
I read the MSP was 5.9 PSI and figured it must be that low to only get 170 crank HP. Running 9 PSI should have broke 200hp at crank if not 220hp. Isn't that more then the Neon is running and its claiming 220 atleast I thought.

 

[LinuxRacr]

Keith in your opinion do I need to lower the boost to 6 or is it OK at 8. I know its somewhat of a guess but it a much better guess then mine.

Stutter,
I read the MSP was 5.9 PSI and figured it must be that low to only get 170 crank HP. Running 9 PSI should have broke 200hp at crank if not 220hp. Isn't that more then the Neon is running and its claiming 220 atleast I thought.

I think I will leave mine at 6 for now for safety. I concur with the low boost of the MazdaSpeed. If it was higher, It would be a contender with the FM kits.

 

[Keith@FP]

Remember that the MSP uses a small turbo and has a tiny, ineffeciently designed intercooler. The car is handicapped by the fact that Calloway was forced to use bits from the parts bin. Corky Bell has estimated that intercooler to be good for about 150 hp. I'm with Chris - volumetric efficiency. We're getting 31 more ft/lbs of torque at the wheels than Mazda quotes at the crank for the MSP, at the same boost level.

1st, it's your call. If you're not getting any knock then you should be okay at 8. You're not necessarily going to be able to hear it from inside the car because of the good sound insulation of the Protege - a knock monitor might be a decent investment if you stay at 8.

Keith

 

[1sty]

Where can I get the monitor and how hard is it to hook up. If you guys sell them I just mail my credit card to you. Should keep my next 372 purchases a little quicker.

Seriously though, whats the procedure and can I get them from you guys.