Help Me Pick a Suspension !!!!!

[RichB]

I was changing my oil over the weekend and noticed that one of my front shocks was leaking fluid. Looks like it is finally time to upgrade my suspension. Now to my Dilema. I can't decide weather to go with Koni Shocks and Eibach Springs, or just get a coilover kit like the H&Rs or KW V1s. My MS3 is my DD so I don't need all kinds of crazy adjustability. I just really want to lower my car about an inch. Any suggestions? I also noticed that there are two different types of Koni shocks (FSD / Sports). What is the difference? Thanks in advance!

 

[SallySpeed3]

The Sport are "the best" for all kinds of lowering springs. The FSD are supposedly only engineered to work with the Eibach. Not sure which is better to be honest, but on Koni's website it sounds like the FSD are supposed to have a better ride quality.

 

[mortimersnerd]

I'd spend the extra for the coilovers. You're only talking about a few hundred dollars and will likely have better handling as a result. You can't go wrong with H&R or KW, both are very high quality.

 

[RichB]

I agree about spending just a little extra for coilovers. The thing that worries me about the H&R coilovers though is that they might be lower than I want. Everywhere I research they show a 1.2 - 2.5 inch drop in the front. Does this mean that at the highest setting, I would have a 1.2 inch drop in the front?

I also looked into Tein Basic coilovers. They look to be about the same price as the H&Rs and KW V1s. Is there one I should pick over the other?

 

[solidtrance]

Koni FSD = Stock replacement, not designed to go with lower springs with higher spring rates.
Koni Sport = designed to accommodate lower springs with higher rates. Adjustable.

If you are only looking for a lower ride on a DD then the Coil Overs will be overkill. The main advantage that the entry level Coil Overs you would be looking at (Adjustably ride height) is something you are not even interested in. So the advantage of a CO set up is not what you are looking for and the disadvantage (much more harsh ride due to differences in the design of the part of the Coil Over that attaches to the top of the strut tower) would be less than ideal on a DD. I think your solution is pretty strait forward. Koni Yellows/Bilstien HD and a set of good springs.

If improved handling is a concern then get a RSB if you don’t already have one. The Shock/Strut/RSB comb will provide at least the same increase in handling (if not more) as a set of entry level Coil Overs will.

Basically if you are not tracking your car a lot then Coil Overs are not needed for an MS3. You are not driving so econo s#it box that came with garbage suspension from the factory. Mazda produced a car that handles pretty well right out of the box, so you don't need to do as much work to this suspension to get it right. Save your money for other projects by keeping you mind on your end goal, a slightly lower ride in this case.

 

[RichB]

I really appreciate that explanation solidtrance! You say that the Koni Sports are adjustable? How are they adjusted?

A RSB would make that much of a difference? Why are more people just changing the rear instead of both the rear and front? Is the FSB not worth the hastle?

It sounds like the coilover route might make more sense if I was looking to slam my car. Since I want to continue to get my car up my driveway, slamming it isn't an option.

A lot to think about here since the entry level coilovers aren't that much more expensive.

 

[Drumraven12]

I have been asking the same questions .... have a prior post in here somewhere looking for help.

My 3 is a DD also and I just replaced my wheels and tires and was planning on a full suspension upgrade but now that I have my wheels and tires on I really only want a small drop to lose some gap.

I want to improve handaling a little but I think sways and springs will do more than enough for me but like you I am still not 100% either way and even then when I do start to lean in one direction then its down to what brand!!

dont get me wrong... I LOVE IT!! WHAT TOY NEXT

 

[Nliiitend1]

Most "entry level" coilovers are crap. Don't waste your money.

If you're not looking to spend as much as a set of H&Rs cost, you're better off just buying some quality replacement dampers (Bilstein HDs or Sports, Koni Sports, or Koni FSD).

Nobody changes the front swaybar because there really isn't a need for it. The front sway bar is more than adequate, and adding a bigger one only works to negate the added rotation you get with a bigger rear sway bar, at the expense of the "independent-ness" of your front suspension...

For more info about the differences between quality coilovers and "budget" coilovers, see this:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5095459&postcount=20\

or this (cut & paste, remove spaces):

http://www.m a z d a s p e e d f o r u m s.org/forum/f12/public-service-announcement-re-dampers-coilovers-etc-particularly-budget-setups-39059/

 

[RichB]

This is good info! So right now I am leaning towards the Koni Sports and a Hotchkis RSB. Next is springs, I was thinking Eibach but are there better ones out there?

 

[solidtrance]

I really appreciate that explanation solidtrance! You say that the Koni Sports are adjustable? How are they adjusted?

the fronts adjust on the top of the strut and can be adjusted after they are on the car, but the rears must be removed and adjusted while off the car. The fronts have a small piece that rotates inside the strut shaft. the rear must be compressed all the way and then you rotate the whole strut shaft.

A RSB would make that much of a difference? Why are more people just changing the rear instead of both the rear and front? Is the FSB not worth the hastle?

On a FWD car the RSB will allow you to rotate the car much easier. It will do a lot to remove the under steer tendency that this car exhibits. You don’t need to worry about the FSB, as Nliiitend1 already pointed out. What a sway bar does is essentially tie the left and right tires together. It effectively stiffens up the car by forcing the springs on both sides of the car to act together. This effectively increases the spring rate of the outside tire in turns. The reason that this is not good for the front tires on a FWD is you want the tires that are driving the car to be able to maintain optimum grip when entering and exiting corners. This allows the springs to work to give you max grip and put you power down better. hopefully someone else can explain this better, as I am not an expert but this is my understanding of the situation. I went through the same decision process you are working on now this winter and I ended up with springs/shocks/FSB (different deal for a RWD RX8). I love the set up. Flat in corners (not body roll) and still comfortable for a DD. The hardest part of the decision for me was convincing myself that I didn't need Coil Over’s. I had a hard time seeing past the "cool factor" that Coil Over’s add to your ride. Once I got over that and started evaluated the strengths and weaknesses of various set up's the answer was fairly easy to see. I was fortunate to have a few knowledgeable locals (Ken from Protege Garage mainly made me reconsider my hang up on Coil Over’s.....Thanks Ken!). I have not regretted my decision at all during the last few months. In fact I drove my car from Chicago to NY for the OCC show and the car was great on a long drive. I don't think Coil Over’s would have been the same. As a matter of fact my Mother (68 yrs old) rode from Chicago to CT without complaining about the ride at all (the exhaust was a different story).

It sounds like the coilover route might make more sense if I was looking to slam my car. Since I want to continue to get my car up my driveway, slamming it isn't an option.

Now your talking.

This is good info! So right now I am leaning towards the Koni Sports and a Hotchkis RSB. Next is springs, I was thinking Eibach but are there better ones out there?

I would recommend doing the springs at the same time you do the shocks since you will be duplicating your work otherwise. Although the MS3 is quite a bit easier to do springs on since the rear design is not a coil over from the factory.

Eibach are great springs and rumor has it that the koni/eibach comb was made to go together.

the Hotchkis RSB is a great product. I have experienced it first hand on more than one MS3 and it makes a big diference.

 

[RichB]

Yea, I completely understand the cool factor with coilovers. As pointed out by Nliiitend1 , if I'm not willing to spend a boat load on coilovers there is no point. It sounds like the Shocks/Springs/RSB upgrade would be better than the entry level coilovers anyway.

Yea I heard that the Eibach's go together with the Koni's as well. I'm just worried that it might not be the drop I am looking for.

 

[solidtrance]

From what I understand Eibach will custom wind springs (to give you the exactly drop/spring rate you want) for $80 per corner. That option would not be much more expensive than buying a set right off the shelf.

 

[RichB]

I'm looking for somethig off of the shelf. I'm just not sure what a 0.8 inch drop looks like. I mean it is pretty damn close to 1 inch (which is what I am looking for).

 

[ProtegeNick]

know im behind the curve but ken at protege garage jus got in contact with a new company called yellow speed racing. i got a set and its so much better than stock. cars more ridged. handls great. u should check it out. www.yellow-speed.com or protegegarage.com

 

[ProtegeNick]

i do have a set. and u get height adjustment. damping adjustment and camber adjustment. theres a bearing system in the front to stop that annoying pop when u turn too. if you plan on doing it go all the way. i wasnt happy with jus a lil sleeve and springs.

 

[RichB]

Thanks for the info. Those coilovers look a lot like BCs. I think I will stay away from the entry level ones and do a shock / spring combo.

 

[solidtrance]

Another problem you can run into with doing an excessive drop is it can ruin the suspension geometery which will have a negative effect on the handling. This is really only a danger if you go for the "slammed" look. In my experience the Koni sport springs will drop the car a little more than the advertised amount because of thier design. I would expect the Eibachs to drop 1.2 - 1.5 inches if you go wtih the Konis. I think that would look great. Go for it. BTW, Koni just came out with an MS3 specific PN for the sport springs. See if you can find a retailer that has them. The older Konis that were used forthe MS3 were the same part number as the 5. A little research shuld turn up a few threads on this subject. I remember seeing them a month ago or so.

 

[RichB]

Damn, I just ordered the Koni's. They don't look like they are MS3 specific is that bad? What is the difference?

 

[solidtrance]

I'm not an expert since I don't have an MS3. let me look for that thread....

Got it: New MS3 specific Koni's

reading now....

 

[Nliiitend1]

MS3 Specific Konis are merely the same old front dampers that they've always been selling (for the 3 and MS3) paired with the rear shocks from the Mazda 5 kits (this goes for both the Koni Sports and FSDs).