Belt change complexity?

^^A rather bold and insulting statement to make having absolutely no knowledge of whence you speak. I have hydroplaned on Yokohama S-drives, Continental Extremecontacts, and Michelin Energy tires, none of which have ever been deemed "Wal mart Specials" While it is true that good tires in good condition will reduce the potential to hydroplane, no tire in any condition will EVER PREVENT IT ENTIRELY. This is what i found rather flabbergasting about Robotaz' statements about CC in the rain. He has since quantified his statements and I now understand what he was saying a lot better. :p
 
I didn't read it by the way because after I saw the words "Insulting Statement" I realized that what you had posted there was probably not going to be very interesting.
 
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I didn't read it by the way because after I saw the words "Insulting Statement" I realized that what you had posted there was probably not going to be very interesting.

You're wasting your time. Nobody is going to bite so go back to where you came from. FYI, "(For the record, I can remeber 17 distinct times where I know I was going too fast in very bad weather)" is possibly the most ridiculous statement I've ever read on a forum, which makes it obviously very, very ridiculous. Even if it was not written with typos it would be just as ridiculous.

Backing away from the troll and getting back on the actual topic here; I have an appointment to change the belts at the dealer where I bought the car. I don't have time to change them this week and the wife is taking the car on a multi-state road trip, with most of it in the rain. I have to cave and pay up.

*EDIT* I think I will also go ahead and change out her tires soon as well. They show a lot of tread and have even wear, but they have almost 50,000 miles on them. At $800 a set for these Michelins, I'd wait if it was my car, but it's not worth worrying over.
 
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We should keep this on topic people!
Oh the hypocrisy considering your only contributions to this thread had NOTHING to do with “Belt change complexity”…


I have never heard of cutting off a belt but now that I think about it, it makes a lot of sense. Since drive belts are non-serviceable items. If one is squealing and has gathered enough mileage (you’ve tried tightening, if allowed), it’s time for a replacement. In this case it would be easiest to just cut it off. Of course, this does not address the likely need to loosen/move things in the first place to put the new belt on!

Btw, do you only hear noise when the belt is wet (rain)? If so, it might an early indicator of a belt getting worn. The wet spots create more friction and would create a cyclic noise. If this is a stretch fit belt and you have racked up a good amount of miles, it may be time to get it done. If unsure, let an independent shop do it, it’s not an expensive job to worry about.
 
Robotaz, do you still have your plastic under tray in place? I realized today that the AC compressor on our cars is up under the engine where it is very exposed to water when driving in the rain if that plastic tray is gone. My plastic went away after my first oil change, but i haven't had any squealing yet. Which Michelins are you looking at for that price? I ask because i JUST got a set of Primacy MXM4 sized 215-45-17 from Tirerack for $117/tire, if that would serve your needs. So far I love them to death! (sorry for the wandering off topic again)
 
It's entirely possible that you do have more miles in the rain. The roads in my state are usually very good and asphalt. Rain on concrete roads is obviously much more dangerous, and I would like to qualify my comments by saying I do not necessarily drive 80 mph in the rain on concrete. Also, I don't drive on tires that are anything but the best for the vehicle and I don't run them down low on tread. All of my tires are 50% or more at all times because I'm very particular about tires. It certainly helps to have great all-weather tires when I'm going 80 mph in the rain.

I think with this vehicle I will just turn off the cruise if I'm going fast in the rain. Problem solved. Now I still have a squeaky belt to deal with. Driving 60 mph in the rain won't help that. I've tried it.

Just to clarify... no concrete roads around here! And they do a great job of keeping them in good repair, with all the rain, they have to. I also only drive on quality tires with good tread depth. And usually only buy tires rated for high wet weather grip and water evacuation... again, on account of the rain. I'll stop bugging you about this now and good luck with your belts dood! ;-)
 
Robotaz, do you still have your plastic under tray in place? I realized today that the AC compressor on our cars is up under the engine where it is very exposed to water when driving in the rain if that plastic tray is gone. My plastic went away after my first oil change, but i haven't had any squealing yet. Which Michelins are you looking at for that price? I ask because i JUST got a set of Primacy MXM4 sized 215-45-17 from Tirerack for $117/tire, if that would serve your needs. So far I love them to death! (sorry for the wandering off topic again)

Yes, that piece is in place. Oddly, the belts have been noisy since they were new, which is now 49K miles ago. I have an update that I'm posting in this thread to this whole debacle to update more.

That price on the Primacy tires is really good. Apparently the price has come down since '09. I believe I get a size up from that though. This shouldn't be too much different. Thanks for the heads up.
 
So I took the car in and said, "I perform the maintenance on this car and everything on it is perfect. I don't need anything done at all other than change the belts without scratching the fender, tearing up the splash shield, or getting mass quantities of dirt inside it". Easy enough.

I got a call while I'm enjoying some brews at a nearby pub. "The mechanic brought me back and your tensioner is loose". I say, "what do you mean, loose?" "It's flopping back and forth and needs to be replaced". I say, "How much?" "$238". I say, "jesus christ! Hell no!", which is over the top and beyond what I wish I had actually said. I was very, very surprised and responded accordingly, which I regret. It just so happens that thanks to flcruising(Aaron), I had reviewed the procedure to check that part and knew in fact that it was most likely not coincidentally defective at the time of the call.

Here's what the service receipt says, "Inspection found tensioner to be bad. will need new tensioner. noise will result from this part. informed customer. customer has declined repair." I like the sales pitch that noise will result. Cute.

Anyway, I go back to the dealership, grab my keys, take the following picture.

*EDIT* I am now wondering if the mechanic told him the pulley is loose, not the tensioner. He sounded like he knew nothing about cars, so the tensioner and tensioner pulley would be the same thing in his mind. I do notice a tiny bit of play in the pulley when I slip the belt off, but it is silent, so I can't be sure until the guy calls me back to clarify. I don't consider a belt pulley to be a part that requires incredible precision. It seems like a bit of play would be expected, but I don't really know for certain. Maybe the pulley is what the mechanic was talking about and he happens to know that this amount of play is getting close to making noise and going bad.

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Are you meaning in and out play, like perpendicular to the rotation of the pulley? A slight amount of that is acceptable. Any wobble of the pulley itself or the entire tensioner will be causing your squealing. Those pulleys do need to be carefully specced for proper diameter and balance or they can shake themselves to pieces. As an aside, i noticed that the Michelins price only changes by about ten bucks/tire if you go up a size or aspect ratio. Michelin does make approximately 100 billion versions of that one damn tire though (variations in rolling resisitance, speed, and load ratings mainly)
 
Are you meaning in and out play, like perpendicular to the rotation of the pulley? A slight amount of that is acceptable. Any wobble of the pulley itself or the entire tensioner will be causing your squealing. Those pulleys do need to be carefully specced for proper diameter and balance or they can shake themselves to pieces. As an aside, i noticed that the Michelins price only changes by about ten bucks/tire if you go up a size or aspect ratio. Michelin does make approximately 100 billion versions of that one damn tire though (variations in rolling resisitance, speed, and load ratings mainly)

Well, without going into a difficult explanation in physics terms, I wasn't pulling straight out due to holding the tensioner with my wrench while I played with it. If you can imagine holding the pulley with two fingers that are 180 degrees apart, I was alternating back and forth pulling at it on the axis perpendicular to the belt's plane of travel. So to answer your question, yes and no, but we are talking about the same thing really.

I would say the play is about 2 mm. You would notice the same amount of axial play on a car wheel. But I still don't think it's that critical. I guess I'll find out. From research, it appears that I'll hear noise before it goes out. Dayco has replacements that cost $10 and it's a 5-10 minute job, so I'm not worried anymore. I am really happy with how quiet the car is now. It's more quiet than it was brand new.

You have me kinda excited about the tires. Thanks for the info.
 
Oh the hypocrisy considering your only contributions to this thread had NOTHING to do with Belt change complexity


I have never heard of cutting off a belt but now that I think about it, it makes a lot of sense. Since drive belts are non-serviceable items. If one is squealing and has gathered enough mileage (youve tried tightening, if allowed), its time for a replacement. In this case it would be easiest to just cut it off. Of course, this does not address the likely need to loosen/move things in the first place to put the new belt on!

Btw, do you only hear noise when the belt is wet (rain)? If so, it might an early indicator of a belt getting worn. The wet spots create more friction and would create a cyclic noise. If this is a stretch fit belt and you have racked up a good amount of miles, it may be time to get it done. If unsure, let an independent shop do it, its not an expensive job to worry about.

Yeah, it was only in rain and then the next day after rain. I think now that it was the A/C belt.
 
Robotaz, do you still have your plastic under tray in place? I realized today that the AC compressor on our cars is up under the engine where it is very exposed to water when driving in the rain if that plastic tray is gone. My plastic went away after my first oil change, but i haven't had any squealing yet. Which Michelins are you looking at for that price? I ask because i JUST got a set of Primacy MXM4 sized 215-45-17 from Tirerack for $117/tire, if that would serve your needs. So far I love them to death! (sorry for the wandering off topic again)

I just realized that I've been saying MXM4 when I mean MXV4. They are $688 for 215/50-17 95V and $748 for the 91H variant. I know it's steep, but I love these tires. They're probably the best tires I've ever owned. Worth every penny.
 
Hang on with the Gates installation tool. I've got one when I ordered a replacement set of belts for our 5 and I cannot see a way to make that tool install onto the crank pulley to roll the belt on. The hole for the bolt to thread into is too far towards the center of the pulley and it's in too deep for the installation bolt to reach.

What's the right tool for doing these on a Mazda5?
 
I have a squealing A/C belt when I drive 80 MPH in a downpour..

Mine just started doing this today. I'm at 46k miles. I guess I'll dig into it this weekend. Did I see mention that there isn't a tensioner for the a/c belt? I guess I can roll on a new one. Done it before.
 
Not sure if its been mentioned yet in this thread, but as an FYI, the 2012+ M5 uses a single belt. This may have been due to the squealing issues exhibited by previous models.
 
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