Zoom Zoom or Putt Putt

[29134]

Is anyone else as frustrated with the CX5 transmission as I am? I purchased a 2014 AWD Grand Touring CX5 back in June, but every time I drive up a hill, I regret my purchase. The engine has plenty of power, but it doesn't kick in until above 1800 rpm or so. If I'm cruising along on a level road, 1500 rpm is fine, but as soon as I have to climb a hill, the engine starts to shutter. I'm tired of having to mash the accelerator to get the transmission to downshift. Gentle application of the accelerator just makes the engine shutter more.

I appreciate that Mazda designed the transmission to be more conservative to improve gas mileage, but since when did Mazda's slogan change from Zoom Zoom to Putt Putt?

 

[CX-SV]

What is the talk of "shutter" and "stutter" about? Is your CX-5 mis-firing, if so something is very wrong.

 

[paris1]

I have a 2.0 Touring and, under the conditions you describe, find it very easy to select the appropriate lower gear by gently depressing the throttle until the trans realizes what is required. If, for instance, this gentle nudging results in a downshift from 6th to fifth and that proves insufficient, an additional nudge will result in another downshift to 4th, and so on and so on... The only time I would ever "mash the accelerator" is if I wanted to get someplace in a really big hurry. My contention is that many owners do not understand how this transmission is designed. I suggest you take another look at how you are using it. With the larger 2.5 engine, you should not be having any problems pulling hills at all. As for the "shutter" you describe, if this really is happening as consistenly as you seem to indicate, I would take the car back and have the dealer check it out. What you describe is not normal.

 

[MikeM.]

Gentle application of the accelerator just makes the engine shutter more.

I agree with the comments of Paris1. The engine in my CX-5 is quite smooth even when applying power at low rpm but, if you want "zoom-zoom" you want to shift down one, two or three gears depending upon how much "zoom-zoom" you want.

The programming of the transmission gear selection is somewhat different from other automatics I've driven previously in that it considers how quickly the accelerator is depressed in addition to how far it is depressed. This offers the driver more control. If you know you want a moderate amount of zoom-zoom, quickly depress the accelerator half-way. If you want to gradually build speed, slowly depress the accelerator half-way. This took me all of five minutes to learn but it could take longer for those who have years of training on older, less sophisticated automatics. If you make a mistake and ease on the accelerator too slowly for the desired amount of zoom-zoom, simply release the pedal and re-engage it more quickly.

You and the transmission will quickly become one.

 

[Nick3434]

The car lacks power, that is kinda the point of it...MPG. Yeah, it is annoying that on overpasses on 95 I have to hit the accelerater to just maintain, but all in all no one bought this to be a racecar. it is very adequate.

A v6 version would be badass though. I drove a 2014 acura RDX the other day which is comparable in size etc. and was more shocked by the super noticeable difference in power it seemed to have (being used to my cx5) and less shocked by the smoothness and non existent shifts and everything else that should be expected for another 14 grand and a top flight Honda. I didn't really think the cx5 was that bad power wise and I still find it fine, but the driving the rdx was eye opening as to the difference in the same kind of car with a 6 cylinder.

 

[Woodys2718]

I am quite pleased... in other words ZOOMZOOM. My other car is a 2010 Mustang GT, so I do know the meaning of ZOOM.

 

[edhchoe]

I don't drive uphill daily but I would down shift manually if my car needed more torque.

 

[Goguinness]

I drive from Charlotte NC to Dayton OH several times a year. There are a lot of hills in Virginia, and West Virginia. I don't have to do anything. It'll shift down to 5th, then 4th if it needs to on it's own, with a steady foot on the throttle. Could there have been some changes to the transmission shift software with the more powerful engine? This is the most intuitive automatic I have ever driven. If I am accelerating on level ground I can control up-shifting by a slight lift on the throttle, conversely I can keep it in a gear longer with pressure on the throttle, or pay no attention and let it do it's thing. No problems here. Even my hood, and mirrors do not vibrate. Luck of the draw?

 

[paris1]

x2^

 

[CX-SV]

x3^ (yes but he is an astute driver)

 

[Nick3434]

Actually, it is interesting you all have the 2013 2.0. Since I had a loaner that was that car and own a 2.5, I can tell you although while more powerful for passing accelerating etc., the 2.5 seems a little more finicky in relation to pedal pressure. I understand the transmission is the same (and I find the transmission is great), but there is a driving experience difference between the 2, not that one or other is better worse, but they are different and the 2.5 takes a litttle more astuteness as cxsv put it when cruising along changing conditions regarding pedal pressure. Also if the op is coming from a torquey car, then it may feel like the tranny is not doing what it should when in reality the torque is just not what he is accustomed to so "something" feels amiss and he is blaming the transmission. I think after re reading his post it is more a lack of torque(car itself) and lack of finesse with the gas pedal(him).

I also have no hood or mirror rattle!

 

[TreyP]

The CX-5 automatic gear selection could be better on hills. When going up a steep hill at low speeds, under 40mph for example, the engine seems to bog down from being in too high of a gear. I've never had it shudder, or even seem to be underpowered really, but a lifetime of driving tells my ear that the car should be in a lower gear because the RPMs are very low which makes the engine sound as if it is straining. I don't have to mash the pedal exactly, but it does require firm pressure to get it to downshift into a more appropriate gear. I've let other people drive my car and they have commented on the same thing with no prompting from me.

Its not a huge problem, but it does act differently (in a bad way) from any other car I have driven. And I used to be a mechanic, so I've driven a LOT of cars.

 

[sylva143]

I drive mountains and hills every day, and I've done so in the 2.0 and the 2.5. At speeds under 20 mph, it is possible to experience a "bogging down" symptom while going up a very steep hill when the transmission decides to stay in a higher gear. This is easy remedied by shifting into manual mode or by learning to use the pedal to adjust gears in auto mode. I've never experienced this on steep mountain grades on the highway; you can always maintain speed and have the auto tranny do its job.

 

[Bladecutter]

Is anyone else as frustrated with the CX5 transmission as I am?

Nope, not me. Best automatic transmission I've ever owned.

I purchased a 2014 AWD Grand Touring CX5 back in June, but every time I drive up a hill, I regret my purchase.

I live in Colorado, and every time I drive mine in the mountain canyon roads, I just love it more and more.
My "hills" bring me from 5k feet all the way up to 12k feet, so my hills work my car much harder than your hills work your car.
Plus, because of the altitude here, my car most likely makes way less power than your car does, if you live closer to sea level.
So, there's nothing wrong with the car, it's probably with your expectations.

The engine has plenty of power, but it doesn't kick in until above 1800 rpm or so.

Yeah, that's because its a 4 cylinder naturally aspirated engine.
It's not a large bore V-6 or V-8.
There is something wrong with your expectations.

If I'm cruising along on a level road, 1500 rpm is fine, but as soon as I have to climb a hill, the engine starts to shutter.

Well, lets see...
The car shifts into 6th gear around 42 mph, and that's right around the 1500 rpm mark.
So that means you trying to climb a steep hill at ~45 mph.
As soon as the car drops to about 41 mph, it then shifts into 5th gear.
Yeah, you are lugging the engine, so yeah, it is going to sound like the car is straining when that happens.
If you know there's a hill coming up, and you're only doing 45, why not just manually shift the car into 4th or 3rd gear, until you crest the hill?
Is that too much work for you, to push the lever to the left, and click it up twice?

I'm tired of having to mash the accelerator to get the transmission to downshift. Gentle application of the accelerator just makes the engine shutter more.

If you know there's a hill coming up, and you're only doing 45, why not just manually shift the car into 4th or 3rd gear, until you crest the hill?
Is that too much work for you, to push the lever to the left, and click it up twice?

I appreciate that Mazda designed the transmission to be more conservative to improve gas mileage, but since when did Mazda's slogan change from Zoom Zoom to Putt Putt?

There is something wrong with your expectations from a car with a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder engine, not with the car or its transmission.

BC.

 

[gk26]

Does anyone have a graph of HP and Torque against RPM? I would guess there is not a whole lot there at 1,500 RPM. I know most 4 cylinders reach peak HP around 4,400 RPM and up. I know there are a few people over at the Subaru forum who don't want to rev their engine past 3,000 RPM for reasons they can't explain, other than 3,000 is "too high" [ as compared to what?]

 

[deepfriedsushi]

I think the throttle programming for the cx5 takes a little bit of getting used to. I can see what the mazda engineers did to try to get the car to save gas by their way of tuning the way the engine/transmission responds to the driver's throttle inputs.

But first a little comparison, in "normal" cars the car's throttles were very sensitive and didn't need much prodding to get it to downshift when more power was requested. This is great for responsiveness and power, but not so great for fuel economy, since it's so easy to get the engine to rev up. On the flip side, fuel economy minded cars (ei: prius's, new cars with "eco mode" on) throttles are programmed to be less sensitive to throttle inputs. In order to get the car to downshift, much more throttle input has to be given in order to get the car to go. This results in a less responsive throttle and a "not powerful" feeling car, but the upside is that it encourages drivers to not drive so fast or hard and does it's best to save gas.

Best example of this is the new CRV's throttle programming with eco mode on and off. When eco mode is off, the throttle feels like a normal car. With eco mode on, the throttle feels like how it does in a prius (I own one, I know). I think the cx5's throttle programming falls right in the middle of the two. When driving normally and not aggressively, the car wants to stay in the highest gear it can and is a bit reluctant to downshift in order to save gas, but it's willing to downshift and provide the power with a bit more prodding, but not so much to where it feels as unresponsive as the crv's eco mode.

After owning my cx5 for 6 months now, I have gotten the engine to bog a little, even on flat roads, with a gentle increase of the throttle. But to me, it's doing exactly what it's programmed to do and if I really wanted more speed, then I know I just have to be a bit more aggressive with my throttle increase to get it to downshift. Since I know how much I need to give, the car is consistent enough to always respond with a downshift when I request it. So after tuning myself to how the car drives, I think it's one of the best transmissions/throttle programmed cars I've driven. It saves gas when I want, it provides power when I want, and what's best, it'll hold lower gears when having fun with curvy freeway entrances. Zoom zoom indeed.

 

[CX-SV]

Also impacting throttle response (or lack of) at low rpm/large throttle openings is Atkinson Cycle, essentially Mazda Skyactiv's "eco mode". Not aware of any other automakers using Atkinson Cycle in a non-hybrid powertrain, please let us know if other automakers are using Atkinson Cycle on a non-hybrid engine. I think the CX-5 gasser engine's near-bogging feel is when the engine is working most efficiently from strictly a fuel efficiency standpoint, hardly the most responsive or fun mode of course.

 

[CX-SV]

Does anyone have a graph of HP and Torque against RPM? I would guess there is not a whole lot there at 1,500 RPM. I know most 4 cylinders reach peak HP around 4,400 RPM and up. I know there are a few people over at the Subaru forum who don't want to rev their engine past 3,000 RPM for reasons they can't explain, other than 3,000 is "too high" [ as compared to what?]

No graph for CX-5, sorry. If somebody doesn't want to rev a Subie flat 4 about 3000, it's probably because they don't want to hear the droning and feel the vibration of the engine, that's how I would explain it.

2.0L Skyactive peak numbers: 155 hp at 6000 rpm, 150 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm (maybe the more relevant stat for this discussion).

 

[paris1]

I think the throttle programming for the cx5 takes a little bit of getting used to. I can see what the mazda engineers did to try to get the car to save gas by their way of tuning the way the engine/transmission responds to the driver's throttle inputs.

But first a little comparison, in "normal" cars the car's throttles were very sensitive and didn't need much prodding to get it to downshift when more power was requested. This is great for responsiveness and power, but not so great for fuel economy, since it's so easy to get the engine to rev up. On the flip side, fuel economy minded cars (ei: prius's, new cars with "eco mode" on) throttles are programmed to be less sensitive to throttle inputs. In order to get the car to downshift, much more throttle input has to be given in order to get the car to go. This results in a less responsive throttle and a "not powerful" feeling car, but the upside is that it encourages drivers to not drive so fast or hard and does it's best to save gas.

Best example of this is the new CRV's throttle programming with eco mode on and off. When eco mode is off, the throttle feels like a normal car. With eco mode on, the throttle feels like how it does in a prius (I own one, I know). I think the cx5's throttle programming falls right in the middle of the two. When driving normally and not aggressively, the car wants to stay in the highest gear it can and is a bit reluctant to downshift in order to save gas, but it's willing to downshift and provide the power with a bit more prodding, but not so much to where it feels as unresponsive as the crv's eco mode.

After owning my cx5 for 6 months now, I have gotten the engine to bog a little, even on flat roads, with a gentle increase of the throttle. But to me, it's doing exactly what it's programmed to do and if I really wanted more speed, then I know I just have to be a bit more aggressive with my throttle increase to get it to downshift. Since I know how much I need to give, the car is consistent enough to always respond with a downshift when I request it. So after tuning myself to how the car drives, I think it's one of the best transmissions/throttle programmed cars I've driven. It saves gas when I want, it provides power when I want, and what's best, it'll hold lower gears when having fun with curvy freeway entrances. Zoom zoom indeed.

And if all else fails, there's always the manual function. Good post deepfriedsushi. You've touched on many of the nuances of the SkyActiv drivetrain (as well as the gas-mileage-seeking strategies of other manufacturers) that, unfortunately, seem to be lost on many owners here and elsewhere. It is indeed a "brave new world" in terms of CAFE-seeking automotive technology and attempts like SkyActiv are just the first step. Better to get in the game now while the disruption of acceptable driveability standards are minimal and added costs are managable. What perils lie down the road are anyone's guess!

 

[ALafya]

I've also experienced the straining sound of the engine at < 1,500 RPM when going uphill, especially at lower speeds (e.g. ~35 MPH). In higher speeds, shifting has been much better.
First, I think that now it is better, since the transmission learned my behavior. But overall I agree it is annoying, especially since it may be a repeating pattern on a curvy uphill road. I think it is a bug in the programming if it is not self corrected. Like the OP said, if it was a level road the engine would not be straining and this would be OK. For uphill, not so. The AT should not select a gear too high such that the engine sounds like it's about to die. A human should not be needed to correct the AT mistake by overriding it.
That said, switching to manual mode while pressing the gas pedal deep enough should already shift, I think.