WOMP supercharger???? does anyone know anything about it???
- Thread starter ARCVN76
- Start date
Heres the problem with centrifugal supercharging:
Pulled from: http://www.coloradocobras.com/whipple/superchargers/centrifugal-superchargers.html
In the end you only are really making peak boost... not anything midrange/low end... it can't touch a turbo that is making full boost by 3K and holding it to redline... peak power is one thing... but never underestimate area under the curve. If you lookup the output of a centrifugal supercharger you'll see the exponential boost curve... and you'll see the issue.
Pulled from: http://www.coloradocobras.com/whipple/superchargers/centrifugal-superchargers.html
In the end you only are really making peak boost... not anything midrange/low end... it can't touch a turbo that is making full boost by 3K and holding it to redline... peak power is one thing... but never underestimate area under the curve. If you lookup the output of a centrifugal supercharger you'll see the exponential boost curve... and you'll see the issue.
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this shows you a twin screw versus a centrifugal supercharger for boost curve... aka when boost builds etc..
pulled from different section of previous website...
Turbochargers are similar to the red line, but typically reach their peak boost around 2500-3500 rpm's.. and hold it... you also have turbo lag in some cases, but a properly sized turbo, and/or other support systems can nearly eliminate lag in a turbo car.
pulled from different section of previous website...
Turbochargers are similar to the red line, but typically reach their peak boost around 2500-3500 rpm's.. and hold it... you also have turbo lag in some cases, but a properly sized turbo, and/or other support systems can nearly eliminate lag in a turbo car.
Zomg Here We Go Again
*declares war*
wait for the new dynos.
note:
the womp sc makes more hp per psi than any turbo kit since the exhaust is free flowing(not pushing a spindle).
the graph does not show the "typical" rpm range that turbos kick in.
wait for the new dynos.
note:
the womp sc makes more hp per psi than any turbo kit since the exhaust is free flowing(not pushing a spindle).
the graph does not show the "typical" rpm range that turbos kick in.
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TurfBurn, good article. Plus supercharger gives constant load, whether you're at WOT or not. I personally wouldnt get supercharger just for the simple fact that I still want my A/C to work.TurfBurn said:
Seems like this thread is turning into s*** slowly. If this is gonna keep going, this thread will end up closed.
Maybe my compuer is running slow but is there supposed to be a dyno chart in between those sentences because I don't see anything. No dyno = I still dont really care about the WOMP kit.Prodigy said:
Here's my "flame." Why do boost kits for Mazdas have stupid ass names? Flyin' Miata....WOMP...they're just tacky names...
There's no updated dyno yet, the project is on hold due to the lack of a rear motor mount..Replica said:
There will be one soon enough when everything's put back together.
The original dyno is "158whp 145lb-ft on 4.5psi " untuned.
Hopefully there will be a 7psi dyno run coming up, but I don't know what Matty's plans are.
Who cares what the name is.. It could be called "the gay blower" for all I care.
Once Matty has the new dyno, I'm sure there will be plenty of intrest.
This thread is one of the many.
The only people that have HUGE support for the WOMP sc are the ones who have seen/ridden in Matty's car. There's nothing better but a first-hand experience for now, words do NO justice.
anarchistchiken
Member
- :
- 03 Silver Protege5
Turf, I thought the same thing when Matt first told me he was using a centrifigul blower. No low end torque, builds power slowly, yada yada. But then I rode in his car, and all those worries went away and I signed up! I've ridden in twin screw and turbo cars, and the power delivery for both of them is obviously very different from eachother, but this blower doesn't feel like boost. It doesn't feel like FI at all. It just feels like you have a big, strong v-6 under the hood.
Replica, there's been a dyno out for, lets see, almost 8 months? Check out the kit on Protegegarage.com to see the dyno.
Anyone whos interested in the kit, feel free to PM Captain KRMP5 (Ken) Prodigy, or myself and we'll be more than happy to answer all your questions.
I should also mention that Matt gained 60 WHP at 4.5 PSI untuned. And when I say untuned, I mean it. He had the Haltech F-10x installed in his car to manage fuel delivery, but at the time he dynoed he was locked out of the computer for some reason. Somthing about a code needed to unlock the maps. Anyway, his AF ratios dipped down into the 9's towards the end of the run, so we're hoping to see a 5-10 WHP bump with proper tuning.
And another little update. Matty's car is fixed and running strong, but unfortunatly he sold his BD-600 blower after he broke the motor mount because he thought that the BD-11a units were going to fit and make a little more power. If you've been following the main thread at all, you'll know that the BD-11a in fact does not fit, so we're trying to sell them off and get enough people together to make a big order with Powerdyne and get a good discount
Replica, there's been a dyno out for, lets see, almost 8 months? Check out the kit on Protegegarage.com to see the dyno.
Anyone whos interested in the kit, feel free to PM Captain KRMP5 (Ken) Prodigy, or myself and we'll be more than happy to answer all your questions.
I should also mention that Matt gained 60 WHP at 4.5 PSI untuned. And when I say untuned, I mean it. He had the Haltech F-10x installed in his car to manage fuel delivery, but at the time he dynoed he was locked out of the computer for some reason. Somthing about a code needed to unlock the maps. Anyway, his AF ratios dipped down into the 9's towards the end of the run, so we're hoping to see a 5-10 WHP bump with proper tuning.
And another little update. Matty's car is fixed and running strong, but unfortunatly he sold his BD-600 blower after he broke the motor mount because he thought that the BD-11a units were going to fit and make a little more power. If you've been following the main thread at all, you'll know that the BD-11a in fact does not fit, so we're trying to sell them off and get enough people together to make a big order with Powerdyne and get a good discount
I wasn't intending to start anything, and I don't sell or prescribe to any one method of FI or NA... the guy asked "know anything about it" I know it is centrifugal... so I posted the centrigual data...
Simple fact is yes, it's very efficient and has a very large wheel to do it with... same thing as running an absolutely massive turbo... except the womp benefits from being belt driven so it doesn't have to have spool up time and it stays in its range very easily... that does not, and can not change where the boost is or isn't created... however... because our cars shift well in the upper bands it is possible to stay in the rough area of where the centrifugal is coming on to it's exponential band... so in that sense yes you keep most of your boost.... so it is very effective... No issue there. So area under the curve comes down to where are you looking? Most of us don't try to "race" under 4.5K of revs... so does low end torque matter... if this is for racing... how many people intentionally try to start out a gear from 2k??? I would assume no one if they are trying to be fast.... the curve shapes will be totally different between everything...
But hands down at low rpm's the centrifugal will not be able to keep with the turbo for sheer torque and boost.. however the higher the rpm's go the less the difference becomes, and I don't doubt one bit that at peak boost and high rpm's that the WOMP will make MORE hp per psi than any of the turbo kits... until well tuned supercharger and high end turbo cars are put side by side off the same or known result set of dynos there isn't any way to compare the power output and area under the curve through different variations and setups and shift points. So comparing which will be "faster" is not arguable until you have a scientific data set to compare between...
My point was not what the WOMP could or couldn't do, but a simple characteristic of the centrigual style charger...
I hope my point is more understood with the above... I have other comments and thoughts on things (boost levels, simplicity, upgrades, long term, etc) either way, but I'm not going near any of that as I know people can't handle a technical discussion without bias in a lot of cases.
Simple fact is yes, it's very efficient and has a very large wheel to do it with... same thing as running an absolutely massive turbo... except the womp benefits from being belt driven so it doesn't have to have spool up time and it stays in its range very easily... that does not, and can not change where the boost is or isn't created... however... because our cars shift well in the upper bands it is possible to stay in the rough area of where the centrifugal is coming on to it's exponential band... so in that sense yes you keep most of your boost.... so it is very effective... No issue there. So area under the curve comes down to where are you looking? Most of us don't try to "race" under 4.5K of revs... so does low end torque matter... if this is for racing... how many people intentionally try to start out a gear from 2k??? I would assume no one if they are trying to be fast.... the curve shapes will be totally different between everything...
But hands down at low rpm's the centrifugal will not be able to keep with the turbo for sheer torque and boost.. however the higher the rpm's go the less the difference becomes, and I don't doubt one bit that at peak boost and high rpm's that the WOMP will make MORE hp per psi than any of the turbo kits... until well tuned supercharger and high end turbo cars are put side by side off the same or known result set of dynos there isn't any way to compare the power output and area under the curve through different variations and setups and shift points. So comparing which will be "faster" is not arguable until you have a scientific data set to compare between...
My point was not what the WOMP could or couldn't do, but a simple characteristic of the centrigual style charger...
I hope my point is more understood with the above... I have other comments and thoughts on things (boost levels, simplicity, upgrades, long term, etc) either way, but I'm not going near any of that as I know people can't handle a technical discussion without bias in a lot of cases.
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And just remember... I have not ever once stated for or against the WOMP or any turbo kit... and I will never endorse or naysay any of them. Every solution has it's pluses and minuses. But if someone posts incorrect facts or doesn't show the technical background I will take issue and post against that.
EDIT: And I think it is great that Matty is doing something different... and keeping at it even with all the flack and BS either way.
EDIT: And I think it is great that Matty is doing something different... and keeping at it even with all the flack and BS either way.
Prodigy said:
That is incorrect Prodigy... the SC makes more hp per psi because of the efficiency of the wheel... same thing as running a MASSIVE turbo... it's simply much more efficient... the exhaust backpressure generated by a turbo becomes a very arguable point when you talk about total % loss of a motor when you compare with the same total % loss on a motor due to parasitic drag of an SC... additionally as a wastegate is opened the apparent back pressure of the turbo drops and further negates the "backpressure" the turbine adds to the system.
You are correct on the rpm range as well... but I can also provide logs of my turbo from low rpm if you like... but additionally... keep in mind that if you pre-spool the turbo.. (say hard run through 2nd gear) and then shift to bring rpm's down to around 1000 rpm's you can easily hold 10-15 psi (briefly to a reasonable time depending on turbo size etc) and also potentially fubar your motor at the same time in many cases as it'll lead to detonation from the massive load (potentially).
Also with various different spool techniques including timing adjustments and specific turbo spool feeds you can achieve as much as 30 or 40 psi at 500 rpm's (common in the drag world).
But again.. most of that stuff is NOT applicable to the normal kit and normal car as far as we are concerned with in this discussion...
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anarchistchiken
Member
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- 03 Silver Protege5
Well I dont need a rear mount, but if you happen to have a spare microtech lying around, I could probably be persuaded to pay shipping for it 
anarchistchiken said:Well I dont need a rear mount, but if you happen to have a spare microtech lying around, I could probably be persuaded to pay shipping for it
I do have a spare one right now... but it's Ken's
LOL. I was saying if Matty needs one.. I have 2 or 3 of them around here.
