who has the most powerful ms3?

[laloosh]

They are probably getting that idea from here...




This was before the pump was installed though. I would have liked to see some track times (dunno if he got to test on the track) from when he did some street tuning and pulled fuel after 4k rpm. "i have NEVER felt this car pull harder in my life" is a pretty bold statement, I think he was really on to something before he went a totally different route.

no i wasnt. by leaning the car out i stopped maxing out the stock fuel pump. The car went 13.4 @ 106.6, after the fuel pump and 1 added psi it went 12.9 @ 111. I dont really give a s*** about the time it ran....i care about the mph it picked up

 

[Powerslave]

u will make power cause of boost, Not because of leaning the car out or playing with timing. By playing with a/f ratio and leaning the car out u will probably make 10 extra wheel hp. yay

I scratch my head at these tunes i see out there. People playing with timing and advancing it 3-4 degrees all while leaning the car out.....it reall boggles my mind how they think thats safe lol

just 10 hp you said when you leaned it out just a tad that it never pulled harder before remember, how could just 10hp make pull harder than ever before?

 

[Haltech]

u will make power cause of boost, Not because of leaning the car out or playing with timing. By playing with a/f ratio and leaning the car out u will probably make 10 extra wheel hp. yay

I scratch my head at these tunes i see out there. People playing with timing and advancing it 3-4 degrees all while leaning the car out.....it reall boggles my mind how they think thats safe lol

Well Loosh, thats what tuning is my friend. Addng/removing timing in areas you need it and adding/removing fuel where you need it. Advancing timing is where you will make power, but you need a wideband to do this correctly. You watch those AFRs when raising the timing so you dont go overboard. If you have methanol, your car will become an animal with advanced timing to take advantage of the octane increase. For the street, i consider 11.1 to 11.3 safe and for the track on race fuel, 12.0. There's plenty of power to be had still but you just need the wb tool to help you get there bro.

 

[laloosh]

Well Loosh, thats what tuning is my friend. Addng/removing timing in areas you need it and adding/removing fuel where you need it. Advancing timing is where you will make power, but you need a wideband to do this correctly. You watch those AFRs when raising the timing so you dont go overboard. If you have methanol, your car will become an animal with advanced timing to take advantage of the octane increase. For the street, i consider 11.1 to 11.3 safe and for the track on race fuel, 12.0. There's plenty of power to be had still but you just need the wb tool to help you get there bro.

thats what im saying. These people are tunning the ms3/6 for a 11.5-12.0 a/f ratio while adding timing. Later you see threads like "i blew my engine" No kidding.

What im trying to say is that you dont need to remove fuel or add timing on these cars with simple bolts ons and the stock turbo. Thats just my opinion.
As for the "ive never felt my car pull stronger comment by me" I was comparing a car that was fuel cutting against a car that was not fuel cutting and running lean. By taking fuel away from the stock pump i was not maxing it out, but cutting out to begin with meant i was running out of fuel. By removing fuel, i was running lean. Lean = boom. I dont have a wideband, but when i get one for xmas ill bet my let testi that my car is btwn 11.0-11.5. Even if i wanted to tune it, i wouldnt, cause thats where i want my car to be. ITs a maf car people. If you got the fuel, it will run what the ecu tells it to run. In this case, slightly leaner than stock 10s. Some1 proove me wrong with a fuel pump and a wideband. Ill def post video of my a/f guage or post up charts from the dashhawk when it comes in. In my opinion once you do go big turbo, then you would need some sort of tunning to add more fuel and retard timing. Not take away fuel and add timing.

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

Laloosh - I agree. It seems like a no brainer. Bigger turbo moves more air. Move more air, you need more fuel. More air and fuel means bigger boom in the cylinder. Bigger boom means higher temperatures. Higher temps require retarding ignition to prevent uncontrolled detonation (knock).

I once read a response to the question of how bad knock is for a high compression engine (they were referring to built N/A V8s, but I imagine this works for turbo 4s as well). The response was, just take your head off and hit the top of the piston with a hammer, it's faster and easier to get the same effect that way.

 

[Powerslave]

interesting point...ahhhhhh time fo ra beeeeer!!

 

[Powerslave]

time to go get drunk and rip the tarmac a new one with my front tires...lol just kikdding

 

[fourthmeal]

to summarize, then, you'd say the fuel pump was a very positive upgrade in itself, right?

I'd put the pump way up there on the upgrade path as far as importance goes, from the results so far. Its all gray area, but I think we can all agree that this car tries to compensate for a weak pump by messing with the throttle, and eventually cutting fuel. Sad, because if they had this pump in them stock, they could probably do much better in the upper RPM ranges with no other mods. This is what I'm gathering from the tests and results anyway.

 

[Haltech]

I would definately place the pump as the second mod, first being a CAI. Everything you do from there is just going to be a gain.

 

[nig3]

u will make power cause of boost, Not because of leaning the car out or playing with timing. By playing with a/f ratio and leaning the car out u will probably make 10 extra wheel hp. yay

I scratch my head at these tunes i see out there. People playing with timing and advancing it 3-4 degrees all while leaning the car out.....it reall boggles my mind how they think thats safe lol

laloosh i dont think you know very much about tunning a car. you dont make power from boost mainly, the real power does come from messing with timing and fuel maps, not just boost dude. In fact most awesome tuners try to make the most power with the least amount of boost and some cars will make more power with less boost when tuned right. FYI nga..

 

[palerider]

i regret purchasing the pump? umm no i regret purchasing the standback

lol... x2 I didnt even finish my post....goodness. Posting at work FTW. You had stated that you regretted that purchase of the standback....thats what I meant..lol.

I need to do a better job proofreading my s***.

BTW... mine arrived today. Another local MS3 owner and I are gonna dyno before and after this week. We'll do my car baseline...his car baseline(hes got RP, MSCAI)...install the pump, and then do mine again after the fuel pump install.

Im hoping for some interesting discussion after that.

 

[palerider]

where do these people get this idea? Thats the 2nd or 3rd time ive seen somone say you regret the pump. I don't understand, considering you have said numerous times you've shaved almost 1/2 a second from your 1/4 mike time, as well as raise your trap speed.

erg I hate false rumors.

Man Im friggin sorry guys. I just rushed my post before reading...busy, but excited at the time. Of course I meant regretting the standback.. Thats what Laloosh has stated numerous times.

Hell... I ordered the damn pump, and have held off on the standback, because of Laloosh.

Sorry again.. I feel like an ass.

 

[justhavnfun]

my vote for fastest ms3 is rumblerider

 

[Haltech]

Man Im friggin sorry guys. I just rushed my post before reading...busy, but excited at the time. Of course I meant regretting the standback.. Thats what Laloosh has stated numerous times.

Hell... I ordered the damn pump, and have held off on the standback, because of Laloosh.

Sorry again.. I feel like an ass.

(braindead

lol, s*** happens man.

 

[Haltech]

my vote for fasted ms3 is rumblerider

How is it, your sorry ass hasnt been banned yet?

 

[redspeed]

my vote for fastest ms3 is rumblerider

WTF??? You again?, ha this is gona be funny........ maybe.

 

[justhavnfun]

thats what im saying. These people are tunning the ms3/6 for a 11.5-12.0 a/f ratio while adding timing. Later you see threads like "i blew my engine" No kidding.

What im trying to say is that you dont need to remove fuel or add timing on these cars with simple bolts ons and the stock turbo. Thats just my opinion.
As for the "ive never felt my car pull stronger comment by me" I was comparing a car that was fuel cutting against a car that was not fuel cutting and running lean. By taking fuel away from the stock pump i was not maxing it out, but cutting out to begin with meant i was running out of fuel. By removing fuel, i was running lean. Lean = boom. I dont have a wideband, but when i get one for xmas ill bet my let testi that my car is btwn 11.0-11.5. Even if i wanted to tune it, i wouldnt, cause thats where i want my car to be. ITs a maf car people. If you got the fuel, it will run what the ecu tells it to run. In this case, slightly leaner than stock 10s. Some1 proove me wrong with a fuel pump and a wideband. Ill def post video of my a/f guage or post up charts from the dashhawk when it comes in. In my opinion once you do go big turbo, then you would need some sort of tunning to add more fuel and retard timing. Not take away fuel and add timing.

stock fuel pressure of 36 at zero boost, then:

Needed fuel pressure = ( PR2 x 36) + boost = (1.412 x 36) + 6 = 77.5 psi

Well, fuel flow through the injectors is a function of the SQUARE ROOT of the fuel pressure change. Basically,

F2/F1 = sqrt(P2/P1)

Here, F2/F1 is "new flow over old flow" which is your PR of 1.41. P2 is the new, desired pressure, and P1 is the stock pressure. Rearranging the equation gives,

1.41 = sqrt(P2/P1)
(1.41)^2 = P2/P1
1.99 = P2/P1
1.99 * P1 = P2
1.99 * 57psi = P2

therefore, P2 = 113psi

ok it's simple, 0 is the angle at which combustion begins; it is about equal to the angle of spark firing. the angle of the duration of combustionis -0. the constants A&M are determined experimentally. real burn fraction curves have been fitted by the Weibe funtion with A=5 and M=2
the terms in equation (2) can be arranged to give an expression for pressure in terms of the crank angle and the conditions at the onset and end of combustion. the final conditions can be represented as funtions of the initial conditions by using the fact that the gases in the cylinder act almost ideal and that negligible is lost or gained by the system.since the combustion process occurs almost symmetrically about top center (TC), the volume of the cylinder at the spark is approximately equal to the volume at the end of compustion. because the initial and final volumesare about equal, little net work is done on the piston and the change in temperaturebetween the spark and end of combustion is due to the burning of the fuel. hope that helps!

 

[Fritch]

stock fuel pressure of 36 at zero boost, then:

Needed fuel pressure = ( PR2 x 36) + boost = (1.412 x 36) + 6 = 77.5 psi

Well, fuel flow through the injectors is a function of the SQUARE ROOT of the fuel pressure change. Basically,

F2/F1 = sqrt(P2/P1)

Here, F2/F1 is "new flow over old flow" which is your PR of 1.41. P2 is the new, desired pressure, and P1 is the stock pressure. Rearranging the equation gives,

1.41 = sqrt(P2/P1)
(1.41)^2 = P2/P1
1.99 = P2/P1
1.99 * P1 = P2
1.99 * 57psi = P2

therefore, P2 = 113psi

ok it's simple, 0 is the angle at which combustion begins; it is about equal to the angle of spark firing. the angle of the duration of combustionis -0. the constants A&M are determined experimentally. real burn fraction curves have been fitted by the Weibe funtion with A=5 and M=2
the terms in equation (2) can be arranged to give an expression for pressure in terms of the crank angle and the conditions at the onset and end of combustion. the final conditions can be represented as funtions of the initial conditions by using the fact that the gases in the cylinder act almost ideal and that negligible is lost or gained by the system.since the combustion process occurs almost symmetrically about top center (TC), the volume of the cylinder at the spark is approximately equal to the volume at the end of compustion. because the initial and final volumesare about equal, little net work is done on the piston and the change in temperaturebetween the spark and end of combustion is due to the burning of the fuel. hope that helps!

incorrect

that makes 0 sense, none. (inout)

 

[palerider]

incorrect

that makes 0 sense, none. (inout)

The guys a troll... hes mocking the board. It wasnt intended to make sense. It was meant to mock us.

 

[chacon101]

Maybe this is that GI guy from way back (screwy)