Has anyone Heard of this ? And what would be the draw backs to a kit for our cars like this?
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Radius Arm Traction Bars
One problem I've been having a lot lately is wheelhop when launching. It's not like I'm at a drag strip, either; just pulling out onto a busy street can yield horrible wheel hop if I'm not careful with the clutch and gas. I believe the rubber motor mounts have become worn out with age; visual inspection during my timing belt change showed the front left lower mount to be severely cracked. Two methods Radius arms systems consist of a crossmember and two rods which attach to the front suspension's lower control arms. They reduce or prevent wheel hop by preloading the front suspension, preventing the caster from changing when launching. There are currently four such systems available for the Integra; all of them attach to the factory towhook locations in front, but differ in where along this crossmember the radius arms are mounted. The four systems are from Competition Engineering, Z10 Engineering, JimFab.com, and Lakewood Industries.
The Z10 bars, while seriously overpriced at $675 for the chrome-moly version, are popular and advertise that they can be used on the street, with no suspension binding. However I seriously doubt this claim. After reading some posts on Honda-Tech by the original designer of Z10's radius arm system, with a detailed description of why both the CE and Z10 bars have flawed designs, I have to agree assuming the given information is correct.
Basically, the theory is that the front suspension's lower control arm rotates around a fixed axis (which can be seen by the two locations it mounts to the body at). A radius arm attached to this control arm, in order to avoid binding, must also mount to the chassis along this axis. Some trigonometric analysis shows why this is true: I don't have any diagrams to show, but I'll leave it as an exercise to you to use your high school math skills to confirm my results if you wish. In summary, if the radius arm mounts to a point on the chassis closer to the outside of the car (as in the Competition Engineering system), the radius arm will be placed under tension as the suspension compresses. If it mounts to a point closer to the centerline of the car (as in the Z10 system), the radius arm will be placed in compression as the suspension compresses. Either way is undesirable since the suspension's travel will be limited, though the Z10 will have less of an effect since its arms are longer and thus will allow more travel before the binding becomes noticeable.
This all seems pretty pathetic if you ask me, since it only took me about 10 minutes to do all the calculations for myself, and I'm not even a mechanical engineer (and haven't done much real math since graduating college 5 years ago!); in fact, I was able to figure this out with high school level math. The alternative to this bad engineering is possibly the system from JimFab.com; according to what I read on Honda-Tech, this system places the radius arm mounts along this critical axis where they should be. In addition, their system is made from chrome-moly steel, and costs substantially less than Z10's.
One last possibility is the system from Lakewood Industries. Their website isn't all that easy to navigate, but they have both powder-coated steel and titanium traction bars (weighing 16 lbs. and 10 lbs., respectively). Unfortunately, they have no prices listed, and I haven't read anything about whether their geometry is correct or not. Just by looking at the photo, it appears that they're somewhere between the
to reduce wheel hop are stiffer motor mounts and radius arm traction systems." Here is a link with pics of what it is http://integramod.tripod.com/ideas/ideas1.html
I looked at our cars and Know that this could be designed to bolt up at the tow hooks on the front of the MSP but havent figured out the control arms yet and am not sure if it will be a benefit ? Would anyone know the calculations for desingning the geometry for this setup?
"
Radius Arm Traction Bars
One problem I've been having a lot lately is wheelhop when launching. It's not like I'm at a drag strip, either; just pulling out onto a busy street can yield horrible wheel hop if I'm not careful with the clutch and gas. I believe the rubber motor mounts have become worn out with age; visual inspection during my timing belt change showed the front left lower mount to be severely cracked. Two methods Radius arms systems consist of a crossmember and two rods which attach to the front suspension's lower control arms. They reduce or prevent wheel hop by preloading the front suspension, preventing the caster from changing when launching. There are currently four such systems available for the Integra; all of them attach to the factory towhook locations in front, but differ in where along this crossmember the radius arms are mounted. The four systems are from Competition Engineering, Z10 Engineering, JimFab.com, and Lakewood Industries.
The Z10 bars, while seriously overpriced at $675 for the chrome-moly version, are popular and advertise that they can be used on the street, with no suspension binding. However I seriously doubt this claim. After reading some posts on Honda-Tech by the original designer of Z10's radius arm system, with a detailed description of why both the CE and Z10 bars have flawed designs, I have to agree assuming the given information is correct.
Basically, the theory is that the front suspension's lower control arm rotates around a fixed axis (which can be seen by the two locations it mounts to the body at). A radius arm attached to this control arm, in order to avoid binding, must also mount to the chassis along this axis. Some trigonometric analysis shows why this is true: I don't have any diagrams to show, but I'll leave it as an exercise to you to use your high school math skills to confirm my results if you wish. In summary, if the radius arm mounts to a point on the chassis closer to the outside of the car (as in the Competition Engineering system), the radius arm will be placed under tension as the suspension compresses. If it mounts to a point closer to the centerline of the car (as in the Z10 system), the radius arm will be placed in compression as the suspension compresses. Either way is undesirable since the suspension's travel will be limited, though the Z10 will have less of an effect since its arms are longer and thus will allow more travel before the binding becomes noticeable.
This all seems pretty pathetic if you ask me, since it only took me about 10 minutes to do all the calculations for myself, and I'm not even a mechanical engineer (and haven't done much real math since graduating college 5 years ago!); in fact, I was able to figure this out with high school level math. The alternative to this bad engineering is possibly the system from JimFab.com; according to what I read on Honda-Tech, this system places the radius arm mounts along this critical axis where they should be. In addition, their system is made from chrome-moly steel, and costs substantially less than Z10's.
One last possibility is the system from Lakewood Industries. Their website isn't all that easy to navigate, but they have both powder-coated steel and titanium traction bars (weighing 16 lbs. and 10 lbs., respectively). Unfortunately, they have no prices listed, and I haven't read anything about whether their geometry is correct or not. Just by looking at the photo, it appears that they're somewhere between the
to reduce wheel hop are stiffer motor mounts and radius arm traction systems." Here is a link with pics of what it is http://integramod.tripod.com/ideas/ideas1.html
I looked at our cars and Know that this could be designed to bolt up at the tow hooks on the front of the MSP but havent figured out the control arms yet and am not sure if it will be a benefit ? Would anyone know the calculations for desingning the geometry for this setup?
