What have you done to your P5 today?

[Airsofthawaii]

Gotcha. There's a guy local to me who's doing a turbo swap on his yellow P5. Maybe him, maybe not. His P5 has a cool history though and he's doing some pretty cool stuff with it.

View attachment 315790

Yep that my buddy in Klamath falls. Nice dude, he's getting pretty far with the build too. There's 2 other Oregon guys in Medford and Corvallis. If you ever need parts or are looking to also turbo swap your car lmk, I do trips down to CA from time to time and can deliver

 

[i12drivemyMP5]

I need to get off my ass and install my Perrin fuel rail with fluid filled gauge on it. Been sittin on that project too long, lol. Nice to chat about moddin and such on these dinosaurs again. Got all kinds of little project things piled up to piddle with.....like glo-face gauge lighting and leds for cc panel

Yes, this......needs to be on the car. Even have fresh pak of inj seals too............and this would be why I got the 626 valve cover. To use without engine cover, 1.8 coil wire boots fit right and look better with fuel rail.

 

[Diamond_Dave]

I was going to swap my P5, but the MSP is running too well. So I'm stuck with both. The MSP has 55K miles.

This was Thanksgiving Day in the MSP. Claimed I passed him at 91 on !5 near Salem. It was around 40* and the turbo LOVED it. No citation.

Yep that my buddy in Klamath falls. Nice dude, he's getting pretty far with the build too. There's 2 other Oregon guys in Medford and Corvallis. If you ever need parts or are looking to also turbo swap your car lmk, I do trips down to CA from time to time and can deliver

Corvallis?! Really? That's where my Miata is getting its SR20.

 

[BenjiHoggi]

I was going to swap my P5, but the MSP is running too well. So I'm stuck with both. The MSP has 55K miles.

This was Thanksgiving Day in the MSP. Claimed I passed him at 91 on !5 near Salem. It was around 40* and the turbo LOVED it. No citation.

Corvallis?! Really? That's where my Miata is getting its SR20.

55k?? That's insanely low mileage for an MSP these days!

 

[Diamond_Dave]

55k?? That's insanely low mileage for an MSP these days!

Yeah. It was a pretty exciting auction win. Just under $2K during the Pandemic. It drives perfectly.

 

[BenjiHoggi]

Yeah. It was a pretty exciting auction win. Just under $2K during the Pandemic. It drives perfectly.

Oh my goodness. You're kidding. That's an insane deal. Not like it's a super rare sports car or anything, but you could probably double or triple your money on it if you wanted to.

 

[BenjiHoggi]

For reasons which I will describe in a new post soon, I am currently trying to wire up a second foglight switch along side the stock one (in one of the blank spots) to toggle the ability to flash (or toggle) the fog lights with the high beams. I am trying to keep the semi-stock (1-wire foglight with running lights on mod) function on the first switch.

I'm currently probing wires in the car and should be able to figure it out at some point soon, but was curious if anyone has done this or might know where I could find a wire to tap into with a +12v signal with high beams on, and a 0v signal with the high beams off, that I could run directly to the foglight relay.

I checked the BODY section of the service manual and saw a vague block diagram of the headlights but no wiring diagram for individual beams. Also searched the forums and didn't come up with much, probably because my case is niche.

 

[pcb]

Here ya go,..
I gots the book.

 

[pcb]

Don't forget about the P5 wiring diagram download,..

F L O P T I C A L . N E T

My book has a few things that are missing from the download, including the headlights.

 

[BenjiHoggi]

Don't forget about the P5 wiring diagram download,..

F L O P T I C A L . N E T

My book has a few things that are missing from the download, including the headlights.

Sweet! Thanks PCB, can always count on you coming to the recue.

I was looking through the shop manual but wasn't aware of a separate wiring diagram. Cool! I will take a look!

I gave up on trying to wire it without the diagrams after I saw that the loom for the headlight stock went straight into the fuse/relay block in the engine bay. That's a little more work than I could do in a night. I will see what I can do and might post a write-up for anybody who wants to do it along side the other lighting mods that I did

 

[BenjiHoggi]

What did I do today? I did a big dumb. Though I'm not all too mad about it.

Sliding around in a snowy parking lot and didn't see the little island curb in the middle of the lot. I've done a lot of driving and sliding in snow in the last year or so, but It finally caught up to me I guess. Left fore/aftward lateral arms are bent, the bolt mounting them to the knuckle is bent, and the wheel is bent a little.

Quite a bit of silver lining though. The alignment shop told me a few weeks back that the bushings and struts in the rear were worn and sagging, and they couldn't get it exactly within spec, so I was going to need to do rear suspension anyway at some point anyway.

The other silver lining? The whole thing was caught on video. So I have that to look back at fondly. At the end of the day, you live and you learn.

I do need a bit of help with parts though, if anyone is willing. I'm replacing both sets of lateral arms and both trailing arms at minimum. The fore/aft (front/rear) lateral arms seem to have different part numbers in the Mazda catalog, but RockAuto only appears to have what they describe as 'Rear Rearward" lateral arms. Wonder if they are all the same and I can just buy four? I don't see a 'Rear Frontward" option. They also specify with/without drum brakes - does this matter? I'm guessing not. I'm open to performance options for all of these parts if they are available, higher quality, and not too much more expensive.

Also, I will need to replace the lateral arm bolt (that connects lateral arms to knuckle). RockAuto doesn't seem to have it. An OEM one is around $27. I might be stuck with that though.

Thanks for the help and feedback! Pulling the rear crossmember now to get to that one front lateral arm bolt (arg!)

 

[BenjiHoggi]

Relating to my previous post - I think I've got it figured out, but It has become a bit more of an endeavor than previously expected, so I may create a thread for it with some info for others.

On a positive note, I went to my (very small) local junkyard and was shocked to find that they had several Protege sedans, one of which had a full MSP turbo swap along with quite a few other goodies!! I was surprised to see that it started life as an NA Sedan, but had (at one point) the color matched wing, skirts, and MSP/P5 bumper. Sad to see that it was wrecked so badly though. Someone definitely put some real time and effort into it.

But one of the goodies on it was an MSP Racing Beat muffler, in excellent condition. I know the tip will stick out too far on a P5, but I am definitely considering getting it shortened and installing it. There was also a set of metal gauge rings, some Sparco pedals, a decent but generic looking front strut brace, and some other small bits. I grabbed the muffler and strut brace for $50 with some other parts, but might go back for the pedals if I can figure out how they come off.

Also finally went ahead and got the Progress rear swaybar since I was already doing the rear suspension rebuild. Hoping that it, along with some much beefier Moog swaybar endlinks and the refreshed bushings, will help tighten up the car when I'm done with the rebuild. Sticking with stock ride height for snow driving though, so we'll see. She does well in the snow (when not being crashed by this idiot) and I don't want to ruin that.

 

[katapaltes]

What did I do today? I did a big dumb. Though I'm not all too mad about it.

Sliding around in a snowy parking lot and didn't see the little island curb in the middle of the lot. I've done a lot of driving and sliding in snow in the last year or so, but It finally caught up to me I guess. Left fore/aftward lateral arms are bent, the bolt mounting them to the knuckle is bent, and the wheel is bent a little.

Quite a bit of silver lining though. The alignment shop told me a few weeks back that the bushings and struts in the rear were worn and sagging, and they couldn't get it exactly within spec, so I was going to need to do rear suspension anyway at some point anyway.

View attachment 317699 View attachment 317698

The other silver lining? The whole thing was caught on video. So I have that to look back at fondly. At the end of the day, you live and you learn.

I do need a bit of help with parts though, if anyone is willing. I'm replacing both sets of lateral arms and both trailing arms at minimum. The fore/aft (front/rear) lateral arms seem to have different part numbers in the Mazda catalog, but RockAuto only appears to have what they describe as 'Rear Rearward" lateral arms. Wonder if they are all the same and I can just buy four? I don't see a 'Rear Frontward" option. They also specify with/without drum brakes - does this matter? I'm guessing not. I'm open to performance options for all of these parts if they are available, higher quality, and not too much more expensive.

Also, I will need to replace the lateral arm bolt (that connects lateral arms to knuckle). RockAuto doesn't seem to have it. An OEM one is around $27. I might be stuck with that though.

Thanks for the help and feedback! Pulling the rear crossmember now to get to that one front lateral arm bolt (arg!)

View attachment 317701

You've probably found all this out by now, but the "rear forward" and "rear rearward" control arms are not the same. I recently bought two TRW rear rearwards from Rock Auto as they are on Wholesaler Closeout (More Information for TRW JTC3213). I haven't put them on yet, but will soon. Side note: I've had left and right trailing arms back-ordered on Amazon for months now. I don't think you should ignore the disc brake vs. drum brake part designation. They are probably differentiated for a reason.

How's the repair going so far?

 

[BenjiHoggi]

You've probably found all this out by now, but the "rear forward" and "rear rearward" control arms are not the same. I recently bought two TRW rear rearwards from Rock Auto as they are on Wholesaler Closeout (More Information for TRW JTC3213). I haven't put them on yet, but will soon. Side note: I've had left and right trailing arms back-ordered on Amazon for months now. I don't think you should ignore the disc brake vs. drum brake part designation. They are probably differentiated for a reason.

How's the repair going so far?

Haaha...*sigh*....where do I even start. Okay, so the car is on the road again now. But......

You are absolutely correct about the disk vs drum issue, and I am now hyper-aware of it, for better or for worse. I did see that the front/rear arms were different, before ordering. What I didn't realize is that there are two lengths of the frontward lateral arms, one for disks (23") and one for drums (23.5"). I found this when I bought some and was horrified to find that they didn't fit. After several hours of research, I figured it out. RockAuto had them listed for the 03 P5, and the manufacturer lists them as compatible with all Proteges. But, it's still my fault for not knowing and checking.

With that said, It was a bit of a miracle that I had one good arm remaining and was able to source another one from a very kind fellow enthusiast in town who upgraded to adjustable arms and had the old ones. I plan to get them swapped for new arms, but will need to be careful what I buy.

Another drum/disk difference? The bolt that holds the two lateral arms to the knuckle. On the drum models, it's 0.5" shorter. I pulled two from a sedan with drums and didn't compare closely enough. The bolt is still long enough to use but in order to get a safe amount of thread engagement with the nut, I had to forego the washer plates on each end. I REALLY do not like doing this, but mechanically it should be fine. I believe the washers are there in the worst case scenario that the collar sitting in the rubber bushing sees enough force to rip it out. I'll be taking it chill until I get the proper bolt in.

Your mention of trailing arms is peculiar. I actually bought a set of new Dorman rear trailing arms off Amazon. They were, from what I could see, the last two in stock, one for each side, and they were sold/shipped from Amazon so arrived quickly.

Anyways, I got all of the parts put back on and did a rough visual alignment with the car on the ground, using the camber bolts to adjust the toe. As far as I know they are the only stock adjustment points for the rear. Despite this, I am concerned that wheel on the affected drivers side appears to have very slight positive camber compared to the passenger side. I am dreading the point where I have to put it on an alignment rack to see that it is indeed off, as I have no idea how I'd fix that.

Let this be a warning to anyone rebuilding their P5 rear suspension. CHECK YOUR PART NUMBERS! Check them very closely, and use the factory parts catalog PDF as a reference. Those helped a ton. I may even make a list of the proper OEM and aftermarket part numbers. And most importantly, be aware that suspension damage is a PAIN to fix because you never know how deep it goes.

 

[katapaltes]

Anyways, I got all of the parts put back on and did a rough visual alignment with the car on the ground, using the camber bolts to adjust the toe. As far as I know they are the only stock adjustment points for the rear. Despite this, I am concerned that wheel on the affected drivers side appears to have very slight positive camber compared to the passenger side. I am dreading the point where I have to put it on an alignment rack to see that it is indeed off, as I have no idea how I'd fix that.

The trailing arm parts I ordered on Amazon months ago were the "ACDelco Professional" ones. They're meant to be good, but I don't know if they'll ever get them back in stock. They're no longer available for order on the site, but my order for them still exists in their system.

Side note: The reason I haven't put my "rear rearward" TRW-brand control arms on is that their installation can affect alignment. I wanted those to be among the last suspension parts installed before I take it in for alignment. I assume that's the adjustment point you're talking about, where the rear rearward control arm attaches near the center line of the vehicle with those little alignment marks visible in a radial pattern. Are those the "camber bolts" you're referring to? I thought camber bolts where always installed on the knuckle, but I don't know for sure. Afaik, if you actually do have camber bolts on your knuckle, they are not stock. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

EDIT: OK, now I understand. The pic below shows a cam nut *and* a cam bolt. That is what was confusing me. Now I know.

 

[BenjiHoggi]

I assume that's the adjustment point you're talking about, where the rear rearward control arm attaches near the center line of the vehicle... Are those the "camber bolts" you're referring to? I thought camber bolts where on the knuckle, but I don't know for sure. Afaik, if you have camber bolts on your knuckle, they are not stock. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes those are what I'm referring to. I guess they adjust toe so the term "camber bolt" wouldn't be correct. My whole rear suspension was completely original before I touched it (thus, approaching 190k , why I wasn't too bothered about doing a rebuild).

I do wonder though if I may need to get some camber bolts to adjust any kind of other weirdness with alignment. The extent of the damage was the two lateral arms on that side, the bolt mounting them to the knuckle, and a slight bend of the mounting tab of the crossmember. Pictures below. The rest of the parts have been replaced, and a couple of quick taps with the hammer took care of the cross member bend, and structurally I doubt it could have been bent anywhere else, but you never know.

 

[katapaltes]

Yes those are what I'm referring to. I guess they adjust toe so the term "camber bolt" wouldn't be correct. My whole rear suspension was completely original before I touched it (thus, approaching 190k , why I wasn't too bothered about doing a rebuild).

I do wonder though if I may need to get some camber bolts to adjust any kind of other weirdness with alignment. The extent of the damage was the two lateral arms on that side, the bolt mounting them to the knuckle, and a slight bend of the mounting tab of the crossmember. Pictures below. The rest of the parts have been replaced, and a couple of quick taps with the hammer took care of the cross member bend, and structurally I doubt it could have been bent anywhere else, but you never know.

View attachment 317987View attachment 317988

Well, you're in good company, because "cam bolt" and "cam nut" is what Mazda calls them, apparently.

I think you're good. If you plan to take it somewhere for an alignment, just tell them about the impact and what you've replaced. If they can't adjust the alignment "normally," they can make an educated guess about what to pry on. I'd bet some fraction of "normal" alignments on older cars probably involve a pry bar or two. There is a telephone pole in the middle of our small apartment parking lot that is literally leaning at least five degrees it's been hit so many times, once by me while backing up. I managed to strike the pole with my back-left tire *without the pole's hitting my bumper* if you can believe it. I imagine that may be why the cam adjustments depicted below are so different between the left and right side of my car.

 

[katapaltes]

Follow me on Instagram for more great car repair tips!

 

[BenjiHoggi]

Well, you're in good company, because "cam bolt" and "cam nut" is what Mazda calls them, apparently.

I think you're good. If you plan to take it somewhere for an alignment, just tell them about the impact and what you've replaced. If they can't adjust the alignment "normally," they can make an educated guess about what to pry on. I'd bet some fraction of "normal" alignments on older cars probably involve a pry bar or two. There is a telephone pole in the middle of our small apartment parking lot that is literally leaning at least five degrees it's been hit so many times, once by me while backing up. I managed to strike the pole with my back-left tire *without the pole's hitting my bumper* if you can believe it. I imagine that may be why the cam adjustments depicted below are so different between the left and right side of my car.

View attachment 317991

Dang that's annoying about the pole. But, not sure about you, but I'm a lot better at turning a wrench than doing body work, so that could be considered a benefit, and same goes for me. I escaped okay with only a bent wheel (which surprisingly drives fine).

Good to know I'm likely not totally screwed though. This is the first accident I've had that has done suspension damage that I've fixed myself, so It's kind of scarry looking at it all and not having a clue what's wrong. Then again, I'm very particular and sometimes I see/hear things that don't exist. I'll probably get the new frontward lateral arms and knuckle bolt on then go for an alignment, or might go to one of those shops that does a free alignment check.

 

[BenjiHoggi]

Follow me on Instagram for more great car repair tips.

I've replaced so many of those darn things that I always grab more at junkyards. I should learn by now and glue them in. That and the little caps on the windshield wiper stalk nuts.