What cars do MS6's compete in class?
- Thread starter snooky
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Karma_hunden
Member
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- '04 protege, then '05 mazda 3i, then '06 MS6 GT, now '10 RX8 R3
The mazdaspeed is (top gear quote) "a gentleman's evo"...in better words, a fancy evo. Why? because inside it actually has more than just a plastic steering wheel and a ford sierra's radio. It's also heavier, which makes it 1 second slower from 0-60mph.
However; the MSP6 can ride with the 350z and hte G35s..i know this because there's one on my kill list.
However; the MSP6 can ride with the 350z and hte G35s..i know this because there's one on my kill list.
STI's, EVO's and 350Zs??? C&D must be smokin crack! I can ALMOST see the first two... only because all 3 cars are 4 door sedans with awd and a lot of power. But that's basically where the similarities end. As far as the 350Z goes... hmm.. let's see... ok, they're both fast. umm... they're both cars. ok, that might be it.
Seriously though, like Newf said, it mainly competes with the LGT. I'm not sure I'd lump it into the same category as the Spec-B though... but it's, at the very least, debateable.
Bottom line. STI's & EVO's are for "enthusiasts" that value speed, handling and "look at me" styling first... and basically everything else second. I think the interiors of both cars are better than a lot of people give them credit for, however. Granted, there's not much to them... no power seats, no fancy keyless entry/start, illuminated dials, navigation, leather seats, etc. Those are the types of pseudo luxury things yuo can expect on the MS6 (GT anyway) Without question, the STI has a far better interior (thanks to Saab's help in redesigning it for the '05 model year) But neither are as low-rent as some might suggest. In comparrison, the MS6 (while having a ton of nice features like the ones I just mentioned) is in no way as high quality as many of its competitors. After recently test driving one, one of the things I couldn't get over was the chintzy plastic interior (namely the air vents, dash storage bin and center portion of the steering wheel.) the LGT, while failing to capture the same aggressive stance of the MS6, has a very well thought out and put together interior. It, unlike the MS6, can at least hold its own with the higher-priced competitors (think Audi, Lexus, VW, etc.)
What it comes down to is the test drive... I'm assuming, because it's so different, the 350Z is NOT on your short list. Do what I did and test drive the LGT, STI, EVO and MS6 back to back (if at all possible). Nothing I or anyone on this forum... or any magazine will be able to provide you with the level of insight you'll gain from that couple of hours. There are some considerable differences between the aforementioned cars so only you can decide which one fits your needs.
If you're leaning more towards having a "gentleman's EVO", unless your plan is to class the STI or EVO up a bit, skip those completely. In this price range, unless you want to sacrfice performance, the LGT and MS6 are really your only options.
Here's a couple articles you may find helpful.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=3280
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0602_midsize_awd_sedan_comparison/index.html
Seriously though, like Newf said, it mainly competes with the LGT. I'm not sure I'd lump it into the same category as the Spec-B though... but it's, at the very least, debateable.
Bottom line. STI's & EVO's are for "enthusiasts" that value speed, handling and "look at me" styling first... and basically everything else second. I think the interiors of both cars are better than a lot of people give them credit for, however. Granted, there's not much to them... no power seats, no fancy keyless entry/start, illuminated dials, navigation, leather seats, etc. Those are the types of pseudo luxury things yuo can expect on the MS6 (GT anyway) Without question, the STI has a far better interior (thanks to Saab's help in redesigning it for the '05 model year) But neither are as low-rent as some might suggest. In comparrison, the MS6 (while having a ton of nice features like the ones I just mentioned) is in no way as high quality as many of its competitors. After recently test driving one, one of the things I couldn't get over was the chintzy plastic interior (namely the air vents, dash storage bin and center portion of the steering wheel.) the LGT, while failing to capture the same aggressive stance of the MS6, has a very well thought out and put together interior. It, unlike the MS6, can at least hold its own with the higher-priced competitors (think Audi, Lexus, VW, etc.)
What it comes down to is the test drive... I'm assuming, because it's so different, the 350Z is NOT on your short list. Do what I did and test drive the LGT, STI, EVO and MS6 back to back (if at all possible). Nothing I or anyone on this forum... or any magazine will be able to provide you with the level of insight you'll gain from that couple of hours. There are some considerable differences between the aforementioned cars so only you can decide which one fits your needs.
If you're leaning more towards having a "gentleman's EVO", unless your plan is to class the STI or EVO up a bit, skip those completely. In this price range, unless you want to sacrfice performance, the LGT and MS6 are really your only options.
Here's a couple articles you may find helpful.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=3280
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0602_midsize_awd_sedan_comparison/index.html
This subject I know more than I'd like to. For over two years I've been car shopping (I have an everyday pos that is falling apart, but a nice garage queen that doesn't get driven......so it's time to get rid of both and get something I like year round). I have gone from one end of the scale to the other. I started at the $20k area and seemed to keep going up as I saved more money. I've test driven Srt4's, Evo VIII's, Sti's (05's), Mercedes C230's, IS300's, BMW 330xi, and a lot of others. Now to me it all comes down to what is more important to me...........speed or luxury.
I work on higher cars so the Srt4 was out pretty quick especially since I looked at the rear doors to find window cranks. That car is pure straight line speed and that's it.
Mits Evo.......even though you can get leather interior in it, its still screams rental car when you get behind the wheel. I never thought it was a "fast" feeling car to drive. I hated the huge rear spoiler on the back too. This car you are buying to go fast and that's pretty much it cause it wasn't that comfortable, rode kinda harsh for everyday, and doesn't have any toys on it other then the right pedal.
Sti.....I trust the reliablity of Subie a ton more then Mitsu. However the Sti felt like a heavier car. Until 07 you could only get the smurf massacure color interior ( I absolutly hate it) no sunroof, no heated seats, no foglights. That is until they introduced the Sti Limited which adds leather so the interior is all black, sunroof, heated seats, and foglights. Its a huge step in the right direction in my mind. Plus they loose the pull me over rear spoiler and do a BMWesque trunk dove tail spoiler.
Lexus IS's...I drove a 300 and wasn't impressed at all. Yeah it has all the comfort stuff, no wierd colors, but it also has no power. I don't think I ever heard someone talk about a fast, awesome braking, and cornering Lexus. This car is pure luxury and status ***** type car.
MB C230, and BMW 330xi... both status ***** cars. Again luxury with no go.
Cars that are really comparable to the MS6
Subaru Legacy GT spec B. About 14 hp less, costs more. This car does have a "real" awd system instead of Haldex psuedo awd. 06 was a limited edition and only came in silver with red seats. 07 get more goodies with memory seats, fold down rear seat, Si drive, tpms, 6spd Sti derived trans, and now it only comes in a greyish exterior with blue alacantra seats. For 07 it just becomes a model option instead of a limited edition car.
Used
Audi S4 ( 04-05). Its going to be more expensive, but you get the best awd system out there. Leather heated Recaro seats, sunroof, 340hp V8. Audi has what I consider the best interiors out there. They function the best, the look the best, and seem to be the best quality. This car is not good at all on gas though, expensive to fix out of warranty, and heavy. Its what I like to call the german awd Mustang. I've driven plenty of them and even thought about picking a used one up for myself at one time. Used ones are around $35-$39k depending on mileage Audi Assured and all.
Volvo S60r. A complete sleeper that no one expects. 300hp inline 5cyl. Ok gas mileage, but the turning radius on this thing absolutely sucks the big one. There is a dealer by me that has a brand new 05 S60r on their lot that stickered for over $43k that they haven't been able to give away for $35k. Used ones start at around $30k ish.
I work on higher cars so the Srt4 was out pretty quick especially since I looked at the rear doors to find window cranks. That car is pure straight line speed and that's it.
Mits Evo.......even though you can get leather interior in it, its still screams rental car when you get behind the wheel. I never thought it was a "fast" feeling car to drive. I hated the huge rear spoiler on the back too. This car you are buying to go fast and that's pretty much it cause it wasn't that comfortable, rode kinda harsh for everyday, and doesn't have any toys on it other then the right pedal.
Sti.....I trust the reliablity of Subie a ton more then Mitsu. However the Sti felt like a heavier car. Until 07 you could only get the smurf massacure color interior ( I absolutly hate it) no sunroof, no heated seats, no foglights. That is until they introduced the Sti Limited which adds leather so the interior is all black, sunroof, heated seats, and foglights. Its a huge step in the right direction in my mind. Plus they loose the pull me over rear spoiler and do a BMWesque trunk dove tail spoiler.
Lexus IS's...I drove a 300 and wasn't impressed at all. Yeah it has all the comfort stuff, no wierd colors, but it also has no power. I don't think I ever heard someone talk about a fast, awesome braking, and cornering Lexus. This car is pure luxury and status ***** type car.
MB C230, and BMW 330xi... both status ***** cars. Again luxury with no go.
Cars that are really comparable to the MS6
Subaru Legacy GT spec B. About 14 hp less, costs more. This car does have a "real" awd system instead of Haldex psuedo awd. 06 was a limited edition and only came in silver with red seats. 07 get more goodies with memory seats, fold down rear seat, Si drive, tpms, 6spd Sti derived trans, and now it only comes in a greyish exterior with blue alacantra seats. For 07 it just becomes a model option instead of a limited edition car.
Used
Audi S4 ( 04-05). Its going to be more expensive, but you get the best awd system out there. Leather heated Recaro seats, sunroof, 340hp V8. Audi has what I consider the best interiors out there. They function the best, the look the best, and seem to be the best quality. This car is not good at all on gas though, expensive to fix out of warranty, and heavy. Its what I like to call the german awd Mustang. I've driven plenty of them and even thought about picking a used one up for myself at one time. Used ones are around $35-$39k depending on mileage Audi Assured and all.
Volvo S60r. A complete sleeper that no one expects. 300hp inline 5cyl. Ok gas mileage, but the turning radius on this thing absolutely sucks the big one. There is a dealer by me that has a brand new 05 S60r on their lot that stickered for over $43k that they haven't been able to give away for $35k. Used ones start at around $30k ish.
Couple things...
Though the Spec B may have less hp (and cost more) it not only handles far better and is even a bit faster but, by all accounts, is worth the extra dough.
As far as the 07 STi limited goes... that's a sweet ride, for sure. Subaru finally got it right... (though, I would have preferred to see the base WRX spoiler instead of that puny little thing) Since I actually like the two-tone seats and feel they compliment a blue exterior perfectly, I wouldn't pony up the extra dough for this limited model. I mean, how hard is it to have the hideous spoiler off and have a regular one installed. fog lights? big deal! probably the most pointless accessory every. Going this route would probably save you at least a few grand.
Though the Spec B may have less hp (and cost more) it not only handles far better and is even a bit faster but, by all accounts, is worth the extra dough.
As far as the 07 STi limited goes... that's a sweet ride, for sure. Subaru finally got it right... (though, I would have preferred to see the base WRX spoiler instead of that puny little thing) Since I actually like the two-tone seats and feel they compliment a blue exterior perfectly, I wouldn't pony up the extra dough for this limited model. I mean, how hard is it to have the hideous spoiler off and have a regular one installed. fog lights? big deal! probably the most pointless accessory every. Going this route would probably save you at least a few grand.
Actually the Sti limited stickers for the same as a regular Sti due to removing the spoiler and other things. I like alacantara interiors cause the center of the seat does burn you in the summer, freeze you in the winter. I just can't stand the blue. Audi S4's had an available silver(off white) which would look better or S8's had black either would look better. Personally I like foglights especially in the snow. THey help project the road surface a little bit better when they are snow covered.
Sticker wise the Sti limited and the Spec B are actually about the same. Trust me I'm looking at it right now.
A car I did miss is the Nissan Altima SER. ITs fwd though. I just don't trust Nissan quality at all. I know to many people that have had injector problems with them along with fit and finish issues. I like the way it looks and its more practical then a 350z.
Also the Acura TL or even the Tsx. Both are fwd though.
Sticker wise the Sti limited and the Spec B are actually about the same. Trust me I'm looking at it right now.
A car I did miss is the Nissan Altima SER. ITs fwd though. I just don't trust Nissan quality at all. I know to many people that have had injector problems with them along with fit and finish issues. I like the way it looks and its more practical then a 350z.
Also the Acura TL or even the Tsx. Both are fwd though.
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well, in Canada the STI and Spec B are WAY more $$$ then the MS6, so for me it wasn't even an afterthought. Not downplaying the cars, just I couldn't afford them 
...and no close Subie dealership close by
decent review of wrx vs ms6
http://www.wheels.ca/features/jan_06_mazda6_vs_wrx.php
...and no close Subie dealership close by
decent review of wrx vs ms6
http://www.wheels.ca/features/jan_06_mazda6_vs_wrx.php
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If you could, get your hands on a subaru Spec B rather than a MS6. Much better quality. Not saying the MS6 is not good quality which it is but the Spec B is better, same goes for fit and finish which I find Mazda lacks accross their entire line of cars. MS6 would be my second choice for price and looks.
I don't understand why people continue to compare the MS6 to the EVO and the STI. They are not the same size car!!! The MS6 will compare to the Legacy, the Audi S4, and the Volvo S60. Car and Driver did a test of 6 different mid sized sports sedans. They rated the MS6 5th out of the bunch, according to their tests, even though they liked it a heck of alot. If I remember, the Audi blew everything away, with the Legacy the closest competitor. I don't understand how they could compare the MS6 to those cars, then turn around and compare them to smaller sedans.
snooky said:
You might be thinking of the Sentra SER spec V which is different then what I was talking about which is the Altima SER. The Altima is a mid size 4dr fwd car with a 3.5L V6 265hp available in stick or auto. Everytime I even thought about the Nissan someone would tell me a horror story about their reliabity and how crappy their fit and finish is. If you don't beat the Sentra SER spec V turn in your man card.
Personally I don't know if I'd be comparing the MS6 againist a Volvo S60R and Audi S4. Not only price wise, but those cars are in a different market all together. The closest car to compare the MS6 to is the Subaru Legacy GT spec B period. Problem is that the spec B has aftermarket support so getting things like a chip, or upgraded suspension is super easy as compared to the MS6 in which no one offers a chip after a year of being in the market.
Karma_hunden
Member
- :
- '04 protege, then '05 mazda 3i, then '06 MS6 GT, now '10 RX8 R3
you might want to check out streetfire.net...search for 'mazdaspeed' and you should be able to find a video of a msp6 vs 350z/specB/talon/cobra...they all get whooped. Dont watch the one against the Grand Cherokee SRT-8 though...ouch.
K let me ask you guys a Q now, my dad drives a BMW 745i k, now forget comparing price, quality... it runs 325 HP, but givin its weight and the fact that its Auto, do you think it would be a close race wit the MS6? i mean i know the MS6 would prob smoke it on the take off but in mlike a 1/4 mile race would it be close?
thankx
thankx
snooky said:
I don't know you race them againist each other, but I'd say teh 745 might be quicker off the line just cause it would have more torque and doesn't have to wait for a turbo to spool up. THe down side is that the BMW would probably spin the tires or traction control would take over and cut power back. BMW's are meant for top end power so it would probably inch out the MS6 at the end.
