What cars do MS6's compete in class?

[the gamper]

Ms6

Just have to throw in my two cents. The Legacy GT is the Speed6's closest competitor and I would say the Audi A4 Quattro is also a good rival.

To those who say the Subaru is better quality, i just have to call Shenanigans. Fit and Finish may be slightly better than the Speed6 but only slightly. Mazda uses much higher quality materials in my opinion. I was seriously considering the Legacy GT and even considered the Spec B. I have driven them both. To come right out and say the Legacy GT is a better quality car is a bold statement and one I dont think can really be backed up in any scientific manner. The thing that Subaru has going for it, is a proven engine. We will see how the Mazda's hold up. Another good thing about driving a Mazda is that you dont have to drive a vehicle that sounds like farm equipment as so many Subies tend to do.

 

[snooky]

HOw does the MS6 hold up againt the RX8 gt? given the weight to power difference would the MS6 still take it!

 

[Newf]

Just have to throw in my two cents. The Legacy GT is the Speed6's closest competitor and I would say the Audi A4 Quattro is also a good rival.

To those who say the Subaru is better quality, i just have to call Shenanigans. Fit and Finish may be slightly better than the Speed6 but only slightly. Mazda uses much higher quality materials in my opinion. I was seriously considering the Legacy GT and even considered the Spec B. I have driven them both. To come right out and say the Legacy GT is a better quality car is a bold statement and one I dont think can really be backed up in any scientific manner. The thing that Subaru has going for it, is a proven engine. We will see how the Mazda's hold up. Another good thing about driving a Mazda is that you dont have to drive a vehicle that sounds like farm equipment as so many Subies tend to do.

I'd have to agree with this. I have yet to sit in a Subie and walk feeling it was a good quality inside. I find their interior's like Cheap Neons. Excellent car, looks great, kickass engine, but inside it looks american.

 

[Karma_hunden]

Snooky, google it damn it.

BMW745i

0 - 60 Time:6.38
(seconds) 1/4 Mile Time: 14.87
(seconds) 1/4 Mile Speed: 98.00
(mph) Braking 60 - 0mph (ft.) :118

vs

MSP6

0-60 mph : 6.2 sec.
0- mile : 14.7 sec @ 96.5 mph(estimated)
60-0 braking distance : 121 ft(estimated)

 

[MS6S2K]

HOw does the MS6 hold up againt the RX8 gt? given the weight to power difference would the MS6 still take it!

Yeah, in a straight line the MS6 would win, assuming the same skilled drivers of course. It wouldn't be a total blowout, but the 6 is definitely faster in a straight line overall. Now on an auto x course, the Speed 6 is TOAST.

The RX8 is overrated in HP, being that most dynos are only about 170-180whp, and they rate it at 232hp (previously 247hp, then 238hp). Even with the extra weight, there's so much more power and torque coming out, that even though the RX8 can stay with the Speed 6 for a little while, eventually the 6 will pull away on a roll. I have owned an RX8, and lets just say it wasn't what I would call fast. I got beaten by a G35 pretty badly on the highway once. It was actually quite embarrassing.

 

[psi365]

. The thing that Subaru has going for it, is a proven engine. We will see how the Mazda's hold up. Another good thing about driving a Mazda is that you dont have to drive a vehicle that sounds like farm equipment as so many Subies tend to do.

Don't forget that the Subie has a real awd system vs the MS6's Haldex awd on demand .

 

[CHICO2003]

I'd have to agree with this. I have yet to sit in a Subie and walk feeling it was a good quality inside. I find their interior's like Cheap Neons. Excellent car, looks great, kickass engine, but inside it looks american.

LOL this coming from the guy who didn't even consider a the LGT because it was a) too expensive and b) the nearest dealership was too far away.

Cheap Neon??? Come on!!! Now I know you're talkin out of your ass. Seriously... be honest. When was the last time you actually sat in (and for that matter, drove... since NVH issues during driving plays a role in interior quality) an LGT? Based on above, my guess is never... but I could be wrong. If I'm not, and all you're doing is basing your oppinion on pictures, what others have told you and (most importantly) what you want to believe... well, think again! Having driven both cars back to back this past weekend, I can say unequivacobly (haha you know what I mean) the the LGT's interior quality blows away the MS6. And I'm a mazda fan!! But I'm being honest. I didn't hear the same rattles and crap when I drove it... the dash and steering wheel were't made of the same low-qual hard plastic. and the air vents... don't even get me started on the air vents! I'm the type of person that goes crazy when I hear rattles in my car... Since a lot of rattles can be attributed to cheap air vents, that's something I immediately look at. the MS6s are amongst the cheapest I've ever seen.

Bottom line: while the Subaru is by no means a luxury car, it's far closer to being one than the MS6. That said, the MS6 has other things going for it...namely, looks and price, that make it (for some) a much better buy. But in no way is the MS6 interior on par or superior. This isn't an oppinion either... these types of things CAN be measured scientifically (and have been in various magazines... read some of the reviews I posted earlier for more on that).

 

[snooky]

Snooky, google it damn it.

BMW745i

0 - 60 Time:6.38
(seconds) 1/4 Mile Time: 14.87
(seconds) 1/4 Mile Speed: 98.00
(mph) Braking 60 - 0mph (ft.) :118

vs

MSP6

0-60 mph : 6.2 sec.
0- mile : 14.7 sec @ 96.5 mph(estimated)
60-0 braking distance : 121 ft(estimated)

ya ur right bro, i just like to hear what peoples, general knowledge from experience.. thanks for the stats tho

 

[lencarv]

MS6 vs. LGT

Let me preface this first. What gets exchanged here are opinions and personal taste. Even the reviews by car magazines and websites are based on "what they think" is a better car. But I would like to see the scientific studies that show that Subaru's quality of product is better than Mazda's. That being said.....heres my opinion. Mazda has been making fun driving cars (and some great driving ones) since I first started working for Mazda in 1987. I knew nothing about Mazda at the time and thought Hondas were the greatest cars on the planet (I was a young idiot then). But I soon realized that we had something that no one else had....inexpensive, "quality made", dependable fun cars. I won't bore you with the mazdas that have graced my driveway over the years, but I will tell you about the one that is there today, the MS6. This is a "mans" car, not a "boys toy". It cannot be compared to any other car on the road. The fit, ride, power, quality, and look, are beyond anything on the road for the MONEY. And the LGT, well its for the grey hairs. I wouldnt be caught dead in one (which is the average age of the owners). If you do not own a MS6 you possibly cannot know what you are missing. ZOOM ZOOM.

 

[jersey_emt]

MSP6

0-60 mph : 6.2 sec.
0- mile : 14.7 sec @ 96.5 mph(estimated)
60-0 braking distance : 121 ft(estimated)

These are EXTREMELY conservative numbers.

 

[CHICO2003]

Let me preface this first. What gets exchanged here are opinions and personal taste. Even the reviews by car magazines and websites are based on "what they think" is a better car. But I would like to see the scientific studies that show that Subaru's quality of product is better than Mazda's. That being said.....heres my opinion. Mazda has been making fun driving cars (and some great driving ones) since I first started working for Mazda in 1987. I knew nothing about Mazda at the time and thought Hondas were the greatest cars on the planet (I was a young idiot then). But I soon realized that we had something that no one else had....inexpensive, "quality made", dependable fun cars. I won't bore you with the mazdas that have graced my driveway over the years, but I will tell you about the one that is there today, the MS6. This is a "mans" car, not a "boys toy". It cannot be compared to any other car on the road. The fit, ride, power, quality, and look, are beyond anything on the road for the MONEY. And the LGT, well its for the grey hairs. I wouldnt be caught dead in one (which is the average age of the owners). If you do not own a MS6 you possibly cannot know what you are missing. ZOOM ZOOM.

I think the MS6 is a better looking car than the LGT. I also think chocolate ice cream tastes better than vanilla. These statements are indeed oppinions and are obviously subjective. Biochemistry aside, there's nothing scientific about this.

Now, in terms of something like "interior quality" while I agree, it may not be quite as black & white as... a hummer being larger than a mini, it most certainly isn't as subjective as you say. To set the record straight, there are indeed "scientific" measures one can take to measure the interor quality level. Since NVH issues are the byproduct of a poor interior, high-tech sound detection devices can and have been used to to detect things like rattles, squeaks and of course, sound insolation. But obviously this doesn't tell the whole story. If I said that the interior of an '87 Dodge Omni was of higher quality than the MS6, you'd say I'm nuts! But, according to you, it's subjective. Clearly, there's a world of difference between the cars. Any sane person knows this. There's nothing subjective about the quality of materials as well as the fit and finish. On the contrary, something like the layout and design of the interior can be.

You mentioned above that there's no other car on the road that can compare to the MS6. Obviously that's insane. Hopefully you meant 'within its pricerange'. If so, with the incentives that are in place, you're probably right. However, with the price Mazda WANTED to charge... I'd firmly disagree. Looks aside, the LGT is a superior car. You said anyone who doesn't own (which should really read "anyone who hasn't driven") an MS6 shouldn't talk... well, the same goes for the LGT. Unless you've driven it, you can't accurately comment on the car. I don't like the look of it either, bu it's no where near the Buick you make it out to be.

After driving both of these cars back to back this past weekend, if I needed a family sedan and had $30k burning a whole in my pocket... the LGT would be the way to go. True, I think the MS6's styling is far superior. But, incase you haven't noticed, I value other things a bit more. Plus, I feel with the right treatment, the LGT COULD look badass... hmm... ok, maybe not! (It really IS quite dull looking) But hey... if you're into "sleepers" it's the way to go. As I've already said, with the interior quality being a notch or two above, and the driving dynamics being about 6 or 7 notches above.. for about the same money, (for driving enthusiasts like myself) the LGT is the better overall vehicle.

All that said... with the current rebates, the MS6 is an absolute steal!! Despite the fact that the clutch is a joke and the seats offer little-to-no latteral support, I'd probably STILL buy one... but only if I needed room for 4-5. Since it's beyond rare that somoene sits in my backseat, it's pointless to have a big, heavy car like this. At least... for now.

 

[the gamper]

I think the MS6 is a better looking car than the LGT. I also think chocolate ice cream tastes better than vanilla. These statements are indeed oppinions and are obviously subjective. Biochemistry aside, there's nothing scientific about this.

Now, in terms of something like "interior quality" while I agree, it may not be quite as black & white as... a hummer being larger than a mini, it most certainly isn't as subjective as you say. To set the record straight, there are indeed "scientific" measures one can take to measure the interor quality level. Since NVH issues are the byproduct of a poor interior, high-tech sound detection devices can and have been used to to detect things like rattles, squeaks and of course, sound insolation. But obviously this doesn't tell the whole story. If I said that the interior of an '87 Dodge Omni was of higher quality than the MS6, you'd say I'm nuts! But, according to you, it's subjective. Clearly, there's a world of difference between the cars. Any sane person knows this. There's nothing subjective about the quality of materials as well as the fit and finish. On the contrary, something like the layout and design of the interior can be.

You mentioned above that there's no other car on the road that can compare to the MS6. Obviously that's insane. Hopefully you meant 'within its pricerange'. If so, with the incentives that are in place, you're probably right. However, with the price Mazda WANTED to charge... I'd firmly disagree. Looks aside, the LGT is a superior car. You said anyone who doesn't own (which should really read "anyone who hasn't driven") an MS6 shouldn't talk... well, the same goes for the LGT. Unless you've driven it, you can't accurately comment on the car. I don't like the look of it either, bu it's no where near the Buick you make it out to be.

After driving both of these cars back to back this past weekend, if I needed a family sedan and had $30k burning a whole in my pocket... the LGT would be the way to go. True, I think the MS6's styling is far superior. But, incase you haven't noticed, I value other things a bit more. Plus, I feel with the right treatment, the LGT COULD look badass... hmm... ok, maybe not! (It really IS quite dull looking) But hey... if you're into "sleepers" it's the way to go. As I've already said, with the interior quality being a notch or two above, and the driving dynamics being about 6 or 7 notches above.. for about the same money, (for driving enthusiasts like myself) the LGT is the better overall vehicle.

All that said... with the current rebates, the MS6 is an absolute steal!! Despite the fact that the clutch is a joke and the seats offer little-to-no latteral support, I'd probably STILL buy one... but only if I needed room for 4-5. Since it's beyond rare that somoene sits in my backseat, it's pointless to have a big, heavy car like this. At least... for now.

Well said Chico, no need to take eachothers opinions personally. Just have to throw in that: aside from straight up acceleration, more than one comparison test has given the Speed6 the upper hand over the LGT in nearly every other category tested. Of course, in other comparison tests the results are a complete 180. These two cars are really almost as perfectly matched as any other two competing cars from different manufacturers could be. The differences are small enough that one's subjective preferences are all that determines which one ends up in your driveway. If price is a consideration, at its current transaction price, the Speed6 cannot lose. Personally, I could have afforded both the cars and seriously considered both, but I much prefer the looks of the Mazda, I have had good experiences with Mazda. But in the end, i just cannot stand to listen to those boxer engines, my lawnmower sounds better.

 

[psi365]

Well said Chico, no need to take eachothers opinions personally. But in the end, i just cannot stand to listen to those boxer engines, my lawnmower sounds better.

Its all a matter or preference. The subie has a real awd system, proven powertrain, conservative styling and a track record. A lot of LGT owners question the jump or price between the regular LGT limited and the spec B. One magazine even took their long time tester LGT limited, put a fancy aftermarket suspension on it and a couple of small other things and for about $2000 cheaper made it handle better. Add to that dealers tried to **** anyone who wanted to look at the 06 spec B's the car didn't sell like they thought it would. Also when have you ever seen an ad for a Legacy? Aftermarket parts are readily available and support is unbelievable

The MS6 had aggresive styling, advanced technology (DISI), euro car hints, and right now stupidly cheap prices. Again this car is victim to lack of knowledge. It was poorly advertised and pushed in dealers. While a lot of reviews tipped toward the MS6 it was never by huge amounts. However right now especially since the 07's are coming dealers just want the 06's gone. In my area if you finance for normal interest and qualify you can automatically take $3500 off the the sticker price. Most dealers are even advertising $5000 off . Plus you get a lot of options that aren't available on the spec B like advanced key, HID headlights, color choices both interior and exterior. Spec B's come in one color interior and exterior color and thats it. If you don't like that color you have to either deal with it, or wait till the next year and hope they do something you'll like. The MS6 GT I was looking at, had sunroof, nav, auto dimming mirror and a few other little things. With the discounts I could get it for now close to $28k without haggling when it stickers for $33,620. Even at sticker it about $2000 cheaper then the LGT spec B with the spec B having less options.

 

[Karma_hunden]

These are EXTREMELY conservative numbers.

Are you saying the numbers are too low??

 

[snooky]

heres a link that talks a lil more about the MS6, but it sais it has 270hp, must have been a typo...

http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/los_angeles_2005/0411_mazdaspeed6/

 

[lencarv]

I think the MS6 is a better looking car than the LGT. I also think chocolate ice cream tastes better than vanilla. These statements are indeed oppinions and are obviously subjective. Biochemistry aside, there's nothing scientific about this.

Now, in terms of something like "interior quality" while I agree, it may not be quite as black & white as... a hummer being larger than a mini, it most certainly isn't as subjective as you say. To set the record straight, there are indeed "scientific" measures one can take to measure the interor quality level. Since NVH issues are the byproduct of a poor interior, high-tech sound detection devices can and have been used to to detect things like rattles, squeaks and of course, sound insolation. But obviously this doesn't tell the whole story. If I said that the interior of an '87 Dodge Omni was of higher quality than the MS6, you'd say I'm nuts! But, according to you, it's subjective. Clearly, there's a world of difference between the cars. Any sane person knows this. There's nothing subjective about the quality of materials as well as the fit and finish. On the contrary, something like the layout and design of the interior can be.

You mentioned above that there's no other car on the road that can compare to the MS6. Obviously that's insane. Hopefully you meant 'within its pricerange'. If so, with the incentives that are in place, you're probably right. However, with the price Mazda WANTED to charge... I'd firmly disagree. Looks aside, the LGT is a superior car. You said anyone who doesn't own (which should really read "anyone who hasn't driven") an MS6 shouldn't talk... well, the same goes for the LGT. Unless you've driven it, you can't accurately comment on the car. I don't like the look of it either, bu it's no where near the Buick you make it out to be.

After driving both of these cars back to back this past weekend, if I needed a family sedan and had $30k burning a whole in my pocket... the LGT would be the way to go. True, I think the MS6's styling is far superior. But, incase you haven't noticed, I value other things a bit more. Plus, I feel with the right treatment, the LGT COULD look badass... hmm... ok, maybe not! (It really IS quite dull looking) But hey... if you're into "sleepers" it's the way to go. As I've already said, with the interior quality being a notch or two above, and the driving dynamics being about 6 or 7 notches above.. for about the same money, (for driving enthusiasts like myself) the LGT is the better overall vehicle.

All that said... with the current rebates, the MS6 is an absolute steal!! Despite the fact that the clutch is a joke and the seats offer little-to-no latteral support, I'd probably STILL buy one... but only if I needed room for 4-5. Since it's beyond rare that somoene sits in my backseat, it's pointless to have a big, heavy car like this. At least... for now.

I did say for the MONEY. So since you did not read my post I said SHOW me the scientific studies on the quality differences, not that they could not be done. I just get a little peeved when someone states the quality is better but they base it on opinion like its a fact, not to say this cannot be true, but in your example of an old Dodge Omni vs MS6 this obviously is comparing apples to oranges and not a true honest comparison.

Mazda and Subaru cars in my OPINION (based on my 19 years in the automotive industry) are of equal quality not of equal value. I just FEEL the MS6 is far superior to any car for the MONEY, and way ahead of the LGT in what matters to me...ride, power, value and of course LOOKS!

 

[MS6S2K]

I was looking to buy an LGT because I test drove and compared both, and the LGT felt more alive and nimble to me. IMO the engine and drivetrain are simply far more advanced, meaning they are better. However, when you look the incentives and the price you can get an MS6 for, it's a better buy for the money. If you go by what the cars are supposed to sell for, it's a strong argument from an enthusiast level to take the LGT. I admit the incentives were the deciding factor for me. I enjoyed the MS6 test drive, and although it felt heavy to me, I grew fond of it's comfort and luxury feel. I most certainly do not regret my decision. However, in all honesty, if I could have gotten as good of a deal on a LGT like I did on this Speed 6, I'd likely have chosen it, because of the more sports car type feel it has to me, and the easy ability to add hp and fine tune. It's one hell of a sleeper car that's for sure.

I owned an STI, and just buy purchasing a COBB Accessport, I added a noticable gain in HP and torque. The car had no tuning issues, and just ran so flawlessley like the tuning was perfect. The LGT is in that same position. It's an easier car to mod, and just feels better tuned. Mazda still has a ways to go with this new engine. For someone more performance minded in a "NOW" sense, the LGT is the better choice. Personally, I think the car is far more capable performance wise, and the better choice for a pure enthusiast who wants a car that's very easy to make fast. They really have that car tuned so well, and I believe it's underrated on it's hp and torque specs (243 and 241 I believe). That car seems faster to me then the Speed 6, but I don't really know for sure. It's got far more of an enthusiast type tuning to it.

Since there are lot of people that don't place that as a priority, the Speed 6 is a great choice as well, not only because the great deals, but because of it's appeal in looks and design. It's nice to have two cars like this. If I could afford to, I'd have an LGT sitting right beside my Speed 6.

 

[CHICO2003]

I did say for the MONEY. So since you did not read my post I said SHOW me the scientific studies on the quality differences, not that they could not be done. I just get a little peeved when someone states the quality is better but they base it on opinion like its a fact, not to say this cannot be true, but in your example of an old Dodge Omni vs MS6 this obviously is comparing apples to oranges and not a true honest comparison.

Mazda and Subaru cars in my OPINION (based on my 19 years in the automotive industry) are of equal quality not of equal value. I just FEEL the MS6 is far superior to any car for the MONEY, and way ahead of the LGT in what matters to me...ride, power, value and of course LOOKS!

Your response makes me laugh. "Since I didn't read your post"??? Umm... if I hadn't READ your post, I wouldn't have been able to COMMENT on many of the SPECIFIC points you made. Just for the record, the quote you're refering to simply said "It cannot be compared to any other car on the road." Obviously you meant to add "for the money" (which you said later on, but, since it wasn't part of the previous sentence, can't be assumed." But who cares? This isn't English class so I won't get on you for poor written communication. Now that I know what you meant, I suppose your statement makes more sense.

That said, I'm not sure if you've read MY post in entirety. These incentives that I referred to (which create a large disparity between the two cars in terms of price) are temporary and, depending on when you bought YOUR car, may not have been something you were able to take advantage of. In reality, that's irrelevant. My point of contention with you was that you feel the MS6 has a higher quality interior. You also feel that this is only something that can be proved with science. If my previous post (along with it's extreme -for a reason- "dodge omni" reference- didn't adaquately address this ridiculous notion of yours, nothing I say will. So why bother to say any more? You're happy with your car and that's all that matters. The last thing I'd ever want to do is contribute to buyers-remorse. So, despite the fact that you most likely never even drove (or even sat in) an LGT (and if you say you have, that only makes your comments that much more absurd) , go on and believe your car is superior in virtually every way.

 

[CHICO2003]

I was looking to buy an LGT because I test drove and compared both, and the LGT felt more alive and nimble to me. IMO the engine and drivetrain are simply far more advanced, meaning they are better. However, when you look the incentives and the price you can get an MS6 for, it's a better buy for the money. If you go by what the cars are supposed to sell for, it's a strong argument from an enthusiast level to take the LGT. I admit the incentives were the deciding factor for me. I enjoyed the MS6 test drive, and although it felt heavy to me, I grew fond of it's comfort and luxury feel. I most certainly do not regret my decision. However, in all honesty, if I could have gotten as good of a deal on a LGT like I did on this Speed 6, I'd likely have chosen it, because of the more sports car type feel it has to me, and the easy ability to add hp and fine tune. It's one hell of a sleeper car that's for sure.

I owned an STI, and just buy purchasing a COBB Accessport, I added a noticable gain in HP and torque. The car had no tuning issues, and just ran so flawlessley like the tuning was perfect. The LGT is in that same position. It's an easier car to mod, and just feels better tuned. Mazda still has a ways to go with this new engine. For someone more performance minded in a "NOW" sense, the LGT is the better choice. Personally, I think the car is far more capable performance wise, and the better choice for a pure enthusiast who wants a car that's very easy to make fast. They really have that car tuned so well, and I believe it's underrated on it's hp and torque specs (243 and 241 I believe). That car seems faster to me then the Speed 6, but I don't really know for sure. It's got far more of an enthusiast type tuning to it.

Since there are lot of people that don't place that as a priority, the Speed 6 is a great choice as well, not only because the great deals, but because of it's appeal in looks and design. It's nice to have two cars like this. If I could afford to, I'd have an LGT sitting right beside my Speed 6.

FINALLY!! My hat goes off to MS62k... Though it really shouldn't, it apparently takes a big man to admit he may not have the "best" car. I couldn't agree more with all of your points. In fact, as I've stated numerious times, if I was in the market for a car of this size, I'd probably make the same choice you did! (assuming I were to buy the car THIS MONTH) Without incentives factored in, with the pricing being roughly the same, the LGT is by far the better overall choice. However, as you said so well, with a whopping $5+k price difference, the MS6 (despite its flaws) makes a very compelling choice. If you either don't care or are able to overlook some of these flaws, the added savings is just an extra bonus. For someone like myself and presumbaly MS62k, it would prove to be (at best) the deciding factor.

Just for the record, in case Mazda is listening (and I know you... aren't) even though the car "feels" heavier and less nimble than the LGT, this is something I'd be able to get past... The incredibely awkward clutch action and the even more incredibely unsupportive seates, on the other hand, are not. While the LGT may not have STi seats, they at least hold you in place. The clutch is also a billion times better. Mazda: these are really simple things to fix... things that, if fixed, would make the MS6 FEEL more athletic and also create a more sporty ride.

 

[snooky]

soo so far all im hearing is about the LGT or the spec B... but what else?