I know I am new to the msp and this community,and don't take this the wrong way but I am really into my car but I was looking on streetfire and almost every msp gets its ass whipped.I have been building hondas for 12 yrs.It is easy to get 300-500 out of a honda we had one that dynoed 702whp I know that the msp has potential even the mam is pushing what 326 or so.I haven't had a chance to mess with my msp yet all I have done is a aem tru boost controller and apexi n1 w/2.5 exhaust. 1 cat.Aem wideband.I have a front mount on the list next.My point is I have good luck with making a 1.6 ltr run high hp numbers and the 702 was a 2.0 b20z2.I know that we can get more power out of the msp I realize that the rings and rods are weak.I am really exited to show people what we can do with a msp I still build hondas for a living,But now it is time to out run some.
we need to be faster
- Thread starter oneqwkmsp
- Start date
blazinrola80
Member
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- msp 03
ive see the same vids and most of them are sound like bad drivers.. only vid i like is a silver msp vs a evo and black msp vs a srt4.. the others are crap... and bad quality... theres alot of potential in these little cars just have faith... looks lik you do... few more mods u can out run most civic/tegs/rsx/delsol/si's out there..Since you have built them you should kno wat it takes...
That is true but I think that on stock internals we can get more power.I feel like there was not many made so most owners really don't do much to them.and most people are still paying on them.But like I said I love this car,it by no means is fast yet but I hope to be in this msp community for a long time so maybe we will get up to the 400-500 whp range like I think we can.
blazinrola80
Member
- :
- msp 03
tercels are pretty qick swaped jdm 1.3 from a starlet forge stok internals 18 psi there quick.. i wouldnt sleep on thoes den a gain im puertorican we race anything even snails nd turtles.. main goal of my msp to embras most evo owners most some are quik..
oneqwkmsp said:
Here's a start:
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123636323
You can..
There's a 9 second FSDE 323 turbo (@ 45psi) in Puerto Rico pushing 600whp.
Anything past 300 is useless in a FWD car on the street.
If you're thinking about going much above 200 whp on stock internals I would seriously advise you to rethink that decision. Sure 505zoom has done like 277 on the stock internals but he retards timing like crazy at peak torque. Besides, the 9.0:1 compression isn't exactly high boost friendly.
I have seen so many overzealous MSP and turbo'd Protege drivers blow their engines it's insane - and it's not like most of these guys don't know what they're doing either...
I have seen so many overzealous MSP and turbo'd Protege drivers blow their engines it's insane - and it's not like most of these guys don't know what they're doing either...
I think that the msp is 9.1:1 but I have built many turboed cars using 10.5:1 pistons,cp,srp,JE. it is all about tuning.I am sure that alot of people know what they are doing with the msp.Eventually I will replace the pistons and rods.I haven't checked on arp head studs yet or a high strentgh mls headgasket.I have used alot of piggyback afcs mostly apexiI read that someone said that a msp ecu will learn its way around a apexi afc.I don't see how.It is obd2B isn't it.And the afc manipulates the signal from the maf,so the ecu doesn't know that it is bieng lied to.But I could be wrong like I said I have not really studied the msp yet.
Can you explain how it's possible to run boost on a 10.5:1 motor? Is it the cylinder head design with 4 valves per cylinder that creates so much charge tumble or what?
The pro builders I have heard/read about wouldn't attempt such a thing. Usually go with around 8:1 for high boost. How do you avoid the dreaded detonation - and don't tell me timing - that will only affect pre-ignition (spark knock) which is entirely different.
The pro builders I have heard/read about wouldn't attempt such a thing. Usually go with around 8:1 for high boost. How do you avoid the dreaded detonation - and don't tell me timing - that will only affect pre-ignition (spark knock) which is entirely different.
crashkelly
Banned
fr0st said:
Totally agree...if you have the time and money to build a bullet proof bottom end on these motors and know how to tune anything is possible. It all adds up to money and commitment.
oneqwkmsp said:
In theory, high compression + high boost is a terrible idea. In practice, it's far worse. You'll be able to run a lot more boost and timing and ultimately make more power on street gas if you run low compression + high boost.
If you run high compression on a Protege engine, no amount of tuning will enable you to run big power on pump gas.
I have arp head studs and cometic MLS head gaskets on my website.
Sure it does. By the O2 sensor, for starters.
I wasn't saying I was going to run high compression on the msp,I was saying I have done it on many hondas.For instance a b16a runs 10.1:1 stock so for me to put 10.5:1 is not a big bump but I can use the ems to control timing and injector pulse.Run less boost and still have good power without having to run a big turbo.I TRY TO KEEP THE FUEL ON 11.5-12.0 AND RETARD THE TIMING 1.5 DEGREES FOR EVERY POUND OF BOOST.but my point was I love my car and if we can produce good # on a honda for low prices the it should easily be capable on the msp.but as far as pay to play ,thats what we work for isn't it.to spend.I am glad to know that cometic makes a gasket.I don't have much time to check on my own parts.and on the o2 could u not clamp the signal.Like I said I am new to the msp or any mazda but I am good with electronics and turbos,at least I think so.
Hate to say it but there is nothing "low price" about modding the MSP's. The only true turbo-back exhaust costs nearly $1000, at one point in time the only aftfermarket exhaust manifold available cost above $1000 (there are now two new manifold designs being persued by members) and most FMIC kits go for about $1000. These are not Hondas, we don't have the nearly infinite aftermarket Honda does. With that being said it isn't impossible to have and MSP put down good numbers - it just takes lots of time, money an effort.oneqwkmsp said:
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- 03.5 Titanium MSP #1451
Having access to limited parts is tough on us. That is one end of the equation (at least for direct bolt-on replacements). This Mazda ECU is junk and that is just the way it is. We HAVE to run at least a piggy-back system like Unichip or go standalone.
As far as the videos, like on streetfire, I don't see many with the MSP killing others. There were three with a black MSP [was that Azian6r?] (runnning MAM's Thumper Kit) whooping a Stage II Cert, but I haven't been able to find it recently.
As far as the videos, like on streetfire, I don't see many with the MSP killing others. There were three with a black MSP [was that Azian6r?] (runnning MAM's Thumper Kit) whooping a Stage II Cert, but I haven't been able to find it recently.
This might be a change of subject, but, how does the stock ECU cope with boost / timing?
Surely it retards the timing as the boost increases. You have to do that to get the right timing at cruise, and then not be in preignition under boost. Otherwise you would sacrifice on both ends.
How do the Honda guys retard the boost? You said 1.5 deg. per psi. That sounds about right. How would a person add this capability to the MSP? Perhaps a MSD boost retard type thing or ????
Surely it retards the timing as the boost increases. You have to do that to get the right timing at cruise, and then not be in preignition under boost. Otherwise you would sacrifice on both ends.
How do the Honda guys retard the boost? You said 1.5 deg. per psi. That sounds about right. How would a person add this capability to the MSP? Perhaps a MSD boost retard type thing or ????
