Wanted: Built shortblock opinions?

[edaddeemsp]

First, I'm a newb to this forum, so go easy on me please. I have been a guest on this forum for quite a while, and have been paying special attention to the "faults" that the mazdaspeed has. I have just recently sold my honda, and now have enough money to start the build on my mazdaspeed. It seems that the main priority list is as follows 1) Stronger block, w/forged internals, 2) engine management, 3) free flowing exhaust. I hope thats right for the first 3, if not please give some input. Anyway, for the main question, both wagner and MAM have a built shortblock available, what are the comparisons between the 2. Are they built somewhat equal, or is there a major difference between them. If anyone (especially someone that has one of the 2) can give some feedback, because this is my first purchase, I would apprecaite it. (shrug) (shrug)

 

[azian6er]

i have a built shortblock performed by andy wagner and nick K. of wagner motorsports. Now that i know a bit more about beau over at MAM I would most definately opt to go with beau rather than andy wagner for a variety of reasons:

1.) customer service
2.) reputation
3.) quality

My block has held fine for up to 270 whp and 18 psi of boost on a gt28rs. I am not losing oil or anything so everything seems to be in order now. BUT, if i had it to do again i would go with Beau from mam. he honestly knows his stuff and has the best customer service around.

-Bryan

 

[low_psi]

The Wagner shortblock doesn't have the same machine work/studs/etc the MAM shortblock has. Maybe Bryan can detail all the work that goes into the Wagner block but MAM's list is as follows:

"Our short blocks are fully machined and deburred.
When we build our motors we do the whole nine yards.

Our short blocks come with:

CP Pistons
CP Gold ring package
Oliver billet rods
Toga bearings
ARP Main studs
ARP head studs

We address the crank walk issuse by having a second thrust bearing machined and installed($400), crank nitrated a second time($100) and then micro polished,line hone, square deck, bored, honed, plateau,all oil gallay's chaffered,full block debur,etc.
We do not bore & hone and put new rods in pistons in.Everything is done to spec and a full build sheet comes with our motors.The customer will know all tolerances and specs.
Our motors are $2995, plus core and shipping."<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

 

[azian6er]

yeah wagner block used oem rod and main bearings arp rod bolts (with the pauter rods) JE total seal piston rings and pistons... stock main bearing bolts i believe

and it doest come with a crank walk plate or head studs. I purchased the head studs separately.

Seems to be holding up ok, but time and boost will tell.

-B

 

[low_psi]

cool, I've always wondered what exactly Andy does to the motors. thanks!

 

[azian6er]

blue printed and balanced of course as well... (or so i was told..)

-B

 

[tekkie]

yeah Beau is the guy to talk with, thats where I am getting mine from

 

[jurgs01]

I am going with the MAM shortblock next summer, so I won't be able to tell you until then. Judging from the quality of Beau's other work I would go with his.

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

I'll be building my own shortblock this winter. Using parts from whoever sells them cheaper.

 

[wicked]

I'll be building my own shortblock this winter. Using parts from whoever sells them cheaper.

I was going to build mine this spring,but I think I will just go with tha MAM,they seem to have their s*** together.


what about the block? did the cylenders get tested for thin spots or casting flaws?

 

[vindication]

I heard the toga bearings wear out too quickly. Like 20 something thousand miles or so. I also heard that the OEM ones should be sufficient. Maybe I'm wrong. But I would not like to change bearings every year.

 

[changedman]

I am getting the MAM built block, I *THINK* I might be one of the first to have it running. I will have it in by summer at worst.

i will be selling my short block that i have now very soon. anyone interested? it'd make for a good build... still running strong

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

I'm starting with a brand new block, never been run.

 

[Kooldino]

I'm starting with a brand new block, never been run.

What's that cost?

 

[changedman]

and why? seems like a complete waste since you'll be machining it completely (or should be, even if new)

I bought a used motor, cheap, beccause its a waste since everything in it will be worked on.

 

[edaddeemsp]

I am curious as to why the toga bearings would wear out after 20000 or so. Also azian6er, how many miles are on your wagner block. Since neither of these come with a warranty, I need to know so I don't just blow $3000. Kinda off the subject, but with the horsepower#'s that I've seen on the forum, has anyone seen problems with the driveshafts?

 

[edaddeemsp]

Another off the subject question, but does anyone offer a built head? And besides the new turbo cams that wagner is coming out with, does anyone elae offer a cam upgrade?

 

[vindication]

they would wear that fast because they are basically race bearings. And well, you dont put that many miles in a race season as opposed to real world driving.

 

[edaddeemsp]

so would it be safer since this will be a street/strip car to have the shortblock built with stock bearings. I'm not in a financial situation that I can have my block tore down every year and new bearings put in. input

 

[ddogg777]

I heard the toga bearings wear out too quickly. Like 20 something thousand miles or so. I also heard that the OEM ones should be sufficient. Maybe I'm wrong. But I would not like to change bearings every year.

Where did you hear that? I have heard tons of spun stock bearing stories hear and over at probetalk, but not a single story of a spun Toga. Please point me to it...