vics vtcs trouble

[9113b-rew]

did a crap load of search but did not come up with what i was looking for.

i have an 03 p5 that has, i thing, the intake recall problem but mazda will not cover the replacement due to the vin. two of the butterfly valves form the lower side of the intake go into the #1 cylinder (pic below of the aftermath) so today i remove the intake and took out the other 2 valves that were laying in the bottom of the manifold. after the first valve went into the motor there has been some hesitation around 3500 rpm. is there way way to resolve that problem?

 

[i12drivemyMP5]

After looking at the pic and seeing how much crap you pulled out of it along with the hesitation, I'm sorry to say that the resolution may be rebuilding the motor...........unless.........did you get more of the VICS butterflies and screws? VICS helps maintain torque thru powerband by routing air via long or short path thru the intake. Usually that doesn't occur until 5000rpm or so. If you didn't put them back in not sure how that would affect things. VTCS butterflies closer to the head are only for cold start emmissions and can safely be removed to improve the flow and lessen noise. VICS butterflies should be loctited with red loctite and left in. That s*** could've scratched cylinders and jacked with rings, valves, etc. Did you look for any more pieces in the screen of the first cat in the exhaust manifold? There could be more there, that's where they end up if the pieces make it past the valves.

There's some more links in this thread to recall threads........

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123772839-Recall-info&highlight=recall

 

[P-Funk!]

Present the recall info, pix and the repair bill to mazda. Prepare for a fight. Be persistant. Be polite, but be firm.

Other people outside the strict VIN recall have had the same problem.

 

[9113b-rew]

thanks for the help. i have a case file mazda already for the recall i have had three different dealerships tell me that the peaces were caused by the recall the case file rep told to contact the highway safety something or other so that has been done and i am waiting to hear back from them to see if mazda will have to cover the motor replacement or not

 

[Lboogs]

After looking at the pic and seeing how much crap you pulled out of it along with the hesitation, I'm sorry to say that the resolution may be rebuilding the motor...........unless.........did you get more of the VICS butterflies and screws? VICS helps maintain torque thru powerband by routing air via long or short path thru the intake. Usually that doesn't occur until 5000rpm or so. If you didn't put them back in not sure how that would affect things. VTCS butterflies closer to the head are only for cold start emmissions and can safely be removed to improve the flow and lessen noise. VICS butterflies should be loctited with red loctite and left in. That s*** could've scratched cylinders and jacked with rings, valves, etc. Did you look for any more pieces in the screen of the first cat in the exhaust manifold? There could be more there, that's where they end up if the pieces make it past the valves.

There's some more links in this thread to recall threads........

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123772839-Recall-info&highlight=recall

How can we prevent this from happening? Should we loctite the butterfly screws ASAP? I have an '02 LX and my VIN won't qualify for recall, but hasn't it happened to all 3rd gen proteges at some point

 

[9113b-rew]

loctite will not help the problem with the valves falling out it is the screws themselves that are the problem they are copper pressed not machined so the threads on them just break off...that is what i was told by one service writer and tech

 

[P-Funk!]

I would remove the VTCS (ensures THAT can't fail).

I would remove and re-torque the VICS screws with red loctite[tm].

You will sleep better at night.

 

[P-Funk!]

loctite will not help the problem with the valves falling out it is the screws themselves that are the problem they are copper pressed not machined so the threads on them just break off...that is what i was told by one service writer and tech

Huh?
No. Just simple steel screws into a machined hole on the bar.
fa' real.

 

[jtlinna]

Huh?
No. Just simple steel screws into a machined hole on the bar.
fa' real.

X2 on that one..

 

[9113b-rew]

p funk and jtlinna did you both fail to look at the pic the screws and two (2) of the valves WENT INTO THE MOTOR they can not be replaced

 

[P-Funk!]

Perhaps you do not understand. I did not say 're-install' I said 'replace' (which means in mechanic-speak: with 'good' ones).

1. Ensure all the bad metal is out (including the front of the first cat).

2. Inspect the cylinders with a borescope for damage. Look for scoring. Bad? Bummer. Consider buying another motor. sorry.

3. Do a compression check. Check good? Proceed to fix the intake manifold (step 4). Bad? Proceed to remove head and fix valves, then proceed to fix intake manifold (step 4).

4. Which butterflies failed? VTCS? Then go to the how-to section for the port and polish the IM thread (originally by flat_black (author)) to remove the rod and go 'VTCS-less'. If it was the VICS - find another rod and butterflies and screws and replace the bad rod (if the threads are stripped). Inspect the rod - the threads may be fine (the screws 'walk' out due to vibrations). OR there are complete stock IMs on the FS section occasionally.

 

[9113b-rew]

the motor is trashed compression is about 130 psi across all 4 cylinders it has a ton of blow by and two days ago i got a CEL for the cat. after pricing out what it would cost to buy or rebuild this motor it does not seem worth it for the fact i hardly drive it anymore. i am thinking about building a frankinmotor out the three other rx motors i have and turning it into a drag car. a four rotor twin turbo sounds like fun

 

[P-Funk!]

Huh? 130 across all four is okay (i base that on all four are consistant, so the low reading may be error). How did you measure blow by - did you pressurize the cylinders and hear/feel a rush of air out the PCV? No one else has had that happen - usually a top end and manifold fixes the damage.

 

[9113b-rew]

130 is more of an average #1 is 118 being the lowest. i measured the blow by pulling on the highway and the HUGE cloud of oil smoke coming from car and the fact that i have to and a quart a week