I talked with the sales dude at Unorthodox Racing and they have an underdrive pulley that works with the MSP. Its about 4 pounds lighter than the stock one, which I heard will add between 5 - 8 HP in the low end. They are aluminum and cost about $235.00 each. Its a pretty easy mod to install. If there other people interested in buying one we should get a group buy together and try to get a better price. They work on all Protege 02+ so any body driving a Protege who is interested lets build a list and see what we can do on price.
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Underdrive pulley
- Thread starter redmption
- Start date
redmption said:Not really, Ive heard it can dim your lights a little and your a/c but thats about it, your are just putting in a lighter pulley
well A/C is gay...and about the lights....i think the MSP needs a bigger/better alternator or maybe capacitor or something because they dim anyways when youve got the kenwood all the way up
if i were you i would stay away from underdrive pulleys and this is why, "A word of warning - if you are planning on turbocharging your Proteg, stay away from underdrive crank pulleys. They replace the harmonic balancer on the crank with an undamped chunk of aluminum. On a turbo Miata, that means oil pump failure in 2000 miles. Normally aspirated Miatas survive fine, but the lack of a balancer is not a good thing.
I suspect much of the change in feel from an underdrive pulley comes from the lighter weight. It's like pulling weight off the flywheel." this was writen by Keith at fm from a different post conserning underdrive pulleys. since your protege is already turbo, i would stay away from this part, unless you want to ruin your engine.
I suspect much of the change in feel from an underdrive pulley comes from the lighter weight. It's like pulling weight off the flywheel." this was writen by Keith at fm from a different post conserning underdrive pulleys. since your protege is already turbo, i would stay away from this part, unless you want to ruin your engine.
(taken from unorthodoxracing.com)
Weight loss is the most critical factor in HP production, each lb. of mass taken off the crank/eccentric shaft is worth approximately 2.7 HP and the figure increases with forced induction, nitrous, VTEC and increased RPM's. Only 15-20% of the gains seen from our pulleys comes from the underdriving. We achieve the maximum gain for each application/model by the singular use or combination of reduced diameter ("underdriving") and weight loss versus the OEM crank pulleys. This principle allows us to maximize the HP gain without causing any adverse effects in the general function of the vehicle.
The diameter of each of our crank pulleys is reduced specifically (from 20-30%) to the vehicles accessory needs. In other words we maintain all accessory minimums: air conditioning efficiency, power steering feel, and voltage (minimum allowable voltage 12v) even at idle with everything electrical on in the car. There are no adverse effects from the use of our pulleys whether Ultra S, Ultra R, or Ultra SS pulley sets are used. Bolt them on and forget about them, then just follow your vehicles normal maintenance schedule.
Weight loss is the most critical factor in HP production, each lb. of mass taken off the crank/eccentric shaft is worth approximately 2.7 HP and the figure increases with forced induction, nitrous, VTEC and increased RPM's. Only 15-20% of the gains seen from our pulleys comes from the underdriving. We achieve the maximum gain for each application/model by the singular use or combination of reduced diameter ("underdriving") and weight loss versus the OEM crank pulleys. This principle allows us to maximize the HP gain without causing any adverse effects in the general function of the vehicle.
The diameter of each of our crank pulleys is reduced specifically (from 20-30%) to the vehicles accessory needs. In other words we maintain all accessory minimums: air conditioning efficiency, power steering feel, and voltage (minimum allowable voltage 12v) even at idle with everything electrical on in the car. There are no adverse effects from the use of our pulleys whether Ultra S, Ultra R, or Ultra SS pulley sets are used. Bolt them on and forget about them, then just follow your vehicles normal maintenance schedule.
I-Am-Chris
Member
Like he said Just get the A/C and Alternator ones
underdrive pulleys are not a good solution for daily drivers...it has been disputed more than once in forums so I'm trying staying neutral on this one.
Just keep in mind, when you live in a warm weather climate, having your water pump run 15% slower will cause your engine to run hotter than it was designed.
Your alternator will not charge your battery as well as it should causing the battery to fail sooner than usual. People w/ large stereos should think about replacing their alternator with a high output one if they want to do this.
None of the affects are immediate. Down the road you may see that parts start to fail before they should. If you are alright with this, go for it.
Out of curiosity, what does Mazda say about them? Will they void our warantees?
Just keep in mind, when you live in a warm weather climate, having your water pump run 15% slower will cause your engine to run hotter than it was designed.
Your alternator will not charge your battery as well as it should causing the battery to fail sooner than usual. People w/ large stereos should think about replacing their alternator with a high output one if they want to do this.
None of the affects are immediate. Down the road you may see that parts start to fail before they should. If you are alright with this, go for it.
Out of curiosity, what does Mazda say about them? Will they void our warantees?
Interesting reading and something to consider (taken from IS300.net)...
Subject: Harmonic Ballancer Purpose
After the last round of ur pulleys and removal of the stock harmonic
balancer, I completed additional research, including a note to
Fluidampr, the manufacturer of fluid type dampeners. Basically, this
is what I learned:
As to its primary purpose, a "harmonic balancer" should, more aptly,
be called a "torsional dampener," since a crankshafts actually twist a
small amount every time a cylinder has a power stroke. Thus, the
HARMONIC portion of the name is that a harmonic balancer
attempts to "cancel out" or disrupt those rhythmic (harmonic)
vibrations. These vibrations consists of fundamental and
HARMONIC frequencies. It cancels out the vibrations by flexing a
heavy metal ring, mounted/vulcanized on rubber every time the
crank twists; it is a simple spring (rubber) - mass (metal from the
rubber outward) unit tuned to a narrow band of vibrations. - it is
designed for the specific range of "vibrations" that a specific engine
produces - hence, just not any harmonic balancer will do. Elastomer
dampers, such as the one on the 7M-GTE, are, actually, a tuned
absorber.
Technically, the primary purpose of a harmonic balancer is to cancel
out third harmonic distortion by using intermodulation between the
second harmonic and the fundamental in the space charge regions
of the triodes Doesn't everyone just love engineers when they make
such statements
Without such a dampener, the ultimate problem could be that certain
vibrations could occur at a frequency (rhythm) that happens to be
the "critical" vibration point of the material the crankshaft is made
of.
In addition, per a response email from Fluidampr, the harmonic
balancer has a secondary purpose. The BALANCER part stems
from external balance engines' requirements for enough weight
to allow the engine to run smoothly. The manufactures add weight
to the damper and/or flywheel to make up for weight that can not be
placed in the counterweights that connect the main bearing journals
to the rod journals.
Hence, putting the Harmonic ( frequency dampener) and the
Balancer (add weight for smooth engine operation), we arrive at the
name of HARMONIC BALANCER.
Bottomline, replace the Harmonic Balancer at your own risk.
Just my thoughts and research.
Subject: Harmonic Ballancer Purpose
After the last round of ur pulleys and removal of the stock harmonic
balancer, I completed additional research, including a note to
Fluidampr, the manufacturer of fluid type dampeners. Basically, this
is what I learned:
As to its primary purpose, a "harmonic balancer" should, more aptly,
be called a "torsional dampener," since a crankshafts actually twist a
small amount every time a cylinder has a power stroke. Thus, the
HARMONIC portion of the name is that a harmonic balancer
attempts to "cancel out" or disrupt those rhythmic (harmonic)
vibrations. These vibrations consists of fundamental and
HARMONIC frequencies. It cancels out the vibrations by flexing a
heavy metal ring, mounted/vulcanized on rubber every time the
crank twists; it is a simple spring (rubber) - mass (metal from the
rubber outward) unit tuned to a narrow band of vibrations. - it is
designed for the specific range of "vibrations" that a specific engine
produces - hence, just not any harmonic balancer will do. Elastomer
dampers, such as the one on the 7M-GTE, are, actually, a tuned
absorber.
Technically, the primary purpose of a harmonic balancer is to cancel
out third harmonic distortion by using intermodulation between the
second harmonic and the fundamental in the space charge regions
of the triodes Doesn't everyone just love engineers when they make
such statements
Without such a dampener, the ultimate problem could be that certain
vibrations could occur at a frequency (rhythm) that happens to be
the "critical" vibration point of the material the crankshaft is made
of.
In addition, per a response email from Fluidampr, the harmonic
balancer has a secondary purpose. The BALANCER part stems
from external balance engines' requirements for enough weight
to allow the engine to run smoothly. The manufactures add weight
to the damper and/or flywheel to make up for weight that can not be
placed in the counterweights that connect the main bearing journals
to the rod journals.
Hence, putting the Harmonic ( frequency dampener) and the
Balancer (add weight for smooth engine operation), we arrive at the
name of HARMONIC BALANCER.
Bottomline, replace the Harmonic Balancer at your own risk.
Just my thoughts and research.
Everyone has made valid points, but Unorthos products are top of the line and are harmonically balanced. 80% of the power increase comes from the reduction of weight in the pulley and the rest from the underdriving. The battery dying is only a half valid point because all of their pulleys keep you at or above the minimum 12 volt range. Your battery will still charge while you are drving, only in idle will there be little charge going to the battery. Ive read pleny of reviews about worries with the pumps working at a reduced speed and in hot weather and there have not been any significant temperature increases.
So after all is said and done I am going to be the lab rat and put and undrive pulley on my car at the end of the month and experience the sweetness (and possibly the bitterness)
Hopefully after that I can get on a dyno have you drooling for a potentially great mod
So after all is said and done I am going to be the lab rat and put and undrive pulley on my car at the end of the month and experience the sweetness (and possibly the bitterness)
Hopefully after that I can get on a dyno have you drooling for a potentially great mod
A CAI can cease your engine on a rainy day, everything has risks. I know plenty of people who drive WRX's that have underdrive pulleys and have no problem at all. I know their pulleys are balanced, they make them specific for each type of car. Trust me I dont want to ruin my baby but they dont make parts for cars that are going to ruin them, and I have been reading up enough on this from pros and not just other ppls random posts to persuade me
Well i read the other threads when people were asking, but I had a unorthodox racing pulley on my F2 Probe for like a year and a half and I never had any problems. Not even when idling. I was happy with it. As far as it having a harmonic balancing in it I dont know about that. I personally have never heard about any horror stories myself with under drive pulleys besides on this forum.
mp3boy1984
low rid'n member
to late i am going to beat you to this one, i am putting my pulley on by the end of the week, haha, i get to be the lab rat on this one. It is already sitting in my room just waitng toget the belts and anti-seize gel and i will be ready to go, i will keep posted on what i experience
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