I have built and installed a custom kit onto my P5, however we are having fuel problems. It seems that the stock ECU is somehow controlling the fuel pump because no matter what rate I use on the Rising Rate regulator my air fuel ratio will not go richer than 14.5-14.8. We have tried everything from inline pump to clamping the return, the fuel will just not change. This is consistant anywhere from 2 psi to 6 psi of boost. Does anyone have a turbo setup on the Protege 5 using a rising rate regulator?? and if so have you gotten wide band O2 reading from it?? What were your numbers??
Turbo Question
- Thread starter squashy
- Start date
squashy welcome to the forum!!!!!
Man I would love to see your setup, maybe you can post pics. As for the wideband 02......what seems to be the problem? I think I was getting a max of 14.8 and that was on the rich side. Are you trying to lean it out or fatten up the mixture? I have staged injection with a link and it ran I think a 14.8 max on the wideband. What is your car doing? Bogging? Provide some more info so we can help out a fellow turbo pro owner
Ohh yeah and post some pics if you can
Man I would love to see your setup, maybe you can post pics. As for the wideband 02......what seems to be the problem? I think I was getting a max of 14.8 and that was on the rich side. Are you trying to lean it out or fatten up the mixture? I have staged injection with a link and it ran I think a 14.8 max on the wideband. What is your car doing? Bogging? Provide some more info so we can help out a fellow turbo pro owner
Ohh yeah and post some pics if you can
Thanks. As for my setup, it is being made into a kit for resale after so we are trying to richen up the mixture. As a rule of thumb we sell our turbo kits with a mixture of approx 13.5-13.8 for logetivity. I will hopefully have pictures up soon, or if you guys have a meet sometime soon I may just drive it out. Right now we are still in the prototyping stages. On my car currently is a 16g turbo, custom manifold, custom intake and a Greddy E-Manage. An intercooler will be optional because we are trying to keep the kits initial costs down. The target boost levels without an intercooler if we get the fueling right is approx 6 psi.
We are getting pings on the upper RPM range, with the E-Manage hooked up. Probably gonna try bigger injectors, however I am trying to get info on the injectors (high or low ipedence, top or side feed). If you have any info on this please let me know.
We are getting pings on the upper RPM range, with the E-Manage hooked up. Probably gonna try bigger injectors, however I am trying to get info on the injectors (high or low ipedence, top or side feed). If you have any info on this please let me know.
I dont think you should be having a problem with your current setup. Perhaps at wot the fuel pump gets a little less vlotage and leans out a bit that should not be a problem still. With my setup I actually have to lean the the mixture out considerably after 4500 rpm. The bulk of fuel needed is between 3000-4500 rpm. This is when you get the torque from the turbo kicking in (I also utilize a 16g) then fuel is not needed as much in the higher rpm. I think your problem is timing. Thats why your getting ping in the high rpm. I was was getting a slight ping at 5 grand and 6.5 grand so I retarded about 6 and 4 degrees respectivly and voila!! no more ping!
I suspect fuel is not your problem here its timing. I am not familiar with the emanage's capabilities but I think you have control over timing? If this is true try that out and I bet it should cure your problem.
Does the emanage use additional injectors or bigger ones? If you use addl and just need to add a percentage over stock base fuel I would be willing to share my fuel and timing maps with you. I have tuned extensivly in the hot and humid Miami summer. So they should be on the safeside unless you live in Cali and use that 91 s*** gas.
Just an idea........let me know what I can do for you.
Yes we can do additional injector controlling and also timing. We have pulled about 4 degree's all around I believe it was. We did more testing and somewhere in the ECU it is controlling the mixture. We reset the ECU took it out, and the Ratios were around 13.3-13.5, however after testing for approx. 15 minutes the mixture would start to lean out towards the 14 range. If we reset the ECU back to 13's. It's odd, but I think the ECU on the 2002 protege is somehow controlling the a/f ratios. We are going to try and put a resistor inline with the o2 signal to the ECU to fool it into thinking that it's running lean, and see if it will compesate for that, which will in turn give us more fuel from the ecu. This is driving me crazy, but hopefully we will have something soon. I am dying to drive the car.
Squashy were you getting detonation after you retarded the timing 4 degrees or after ?That should have taking care of your ping since the ecu on the p5 is running slightly retarded timing vs the mp3's ecu.
That is strange that your airfuel ratio re adjusts after 15 minutes. I know this sounds stupid but did you check all your connections and fittings aroung your fpr? Usually its the simple stuff that gets you stumped while you are so busy looking at everything trying to figure it out. Regardless you should not be pinging in the upper rpm range even running alot leaner. Just to give you an example.....my link adds fuel via the addl injectors. At 3000 rpm I am adding 70% more fuel over the factory ecu @8psi and slowly taper off the fuel to about 55% @ 4500rpm @ 8psi. Then at 5000rpm I am only adding 40% more fuel over the factory ecu and then I taper down to 29% of fuel at redline! I have nooo detonation and you can see I am running way leaner in the higher rpms then middle range. So even if fuel ratios are changing the upper rpm range should not be a problem. Trust me I have went through a s*** load of headaches getting my car to run properly. The pro is very finicky unlike other cars that I have boosted in the past that were much easier. I am just tryin to pass the info down so you guys dont have to go through the hardships I went thru. Regardless I am sure fuel is not your problem. Try to explore other avenues such as timing. Keep retarding more timing out until you stop detonating.
And how is your car acting? What is it doing besides changing a/f? where are you from? what is the climate like? what gas are you running? these are all variables we need to know so we can help diagnose the problem. What brand of fmu or fpr are you using? That could be your swaying a/f problem there...maybe its faulty?
That is strange that your airfuel ratio re adjusts after 15 minutes. I know this sounds stupid but did you check all your connections and fittings aroung your fpr? Usually its the simple stuff that gets you stumped while you are so busy looking at everything trying to figure it out. Regardless you should not be pinging in the upper rpm range even running alot leaner. Just to give you an example.....my link adds fuel via the addl injectors. At 3000 rpm I am adding 70% more fuel over the factory ecu @8psi and slowly taper off the fuel to about 55% @ 4500rpm @ 8psi. Then at 5000rpm I am only adding 40% more fuel over the factory ecu and then I taper down to 29% of fuel at redline! I have nooo detonation and you can see I am running way leaner in the higher rpms then middle range. So even if fuel ratios are changing the upper rpm range should not be a problem. Trust me I have went through a s*** load of headaches getting my car to run properly. The pro is very finicky unlike other cars that I have boosted in the past that were much easier. I am just tryin to pass the info down so you guys dont have to go through the hardships I went thru. Regardless I am sure fuel is not your problem. Try to explore other avenues such as timing. Keep retarding more timing out until you stop detonating.
And how is your car acting? What is it doing besides changing a/f? where are you from? what is the climate like? what gas are you running? these are all variables we need to know so we can help diagnose the problem. What brand of fmu or fpr are you using? That could be your swaying a/f problem there...maybe its faulty?
Thanks for all the help guys. I am located in Toronto, Ontario... that's Canada Eh!!! 
Amazingly the weather is pretty hot here the past few weeks +30 degree celcius (80 + degrees f), we are running 94 octane Sunoco gas. As for the Riser, we have gone through alot, a Cartech, Vortec and some other I can't even remember. They are all working according to the fuel pressure gauge because the pressure does rise, but once again the CPU pulls out fuel and leans out the mixture on it own. If we reset the ECU it will run perfect, but after a bit of running it will slowly lean out again. The ping only comes as the car leans out, but before it leans out it's perfect. The car pulls very strong right to redline the first few times, but as it get's leaner it will begin to detonate. If the car was for me only, and if we didn't plan on marketing the kit for sure I would have left it and drove it, but because we are planning on producing it, we want to have a mixture that is a bit on the rich side. We are almost positive the ecu is pulling because if we add more fuel with the greddy, the mixture will richen, then lean out again on it's own. We have checked all connections, voltage readings from sensors and fuel pressure, and all are in spec. We have removed the Pressure riser completely and are running only the E-Manage and a adjustable regulator. Base Idle pressure set at 40 psi - 50 psi for testing, and still even if we get it to run in the 13.5 range, it will raise back to 14.5-14.8 after a while. We have also capped/clipped the Air Flow sensor to approx 3.8 volts, the map sensor does not see boost either. We do have some ideas we will be trying, simular to a Greddy Black box that they use in the Honda kit. Spoolin do you have an email address you use? Just wanna fire off some ideas/questions to you? At the shop the internet is slow, so browsing takes forever sometimes.
Amazingly the weather is pretty hot here the past few weeks +30 degree celcius (80 + degrees f), we are running 94 octane Sunoco gas. As for the Riser, we have gone through alot, a Cartech, Vortec and some other I can't even remember. They are all working according to the fuel pressure gauge because the pressure does rise, but once again the CPU pulls out fuel and leans out the mixture on it own. If we reset the ECU it will run perfect, but after a bit of running it will slowly lean out again. The ping only comes as the car leans out, but before it leans out it's perfect. The car pulls very strong right to redline the first few times, but as it get's leaner it will begin to detonate. If the car was for me only, and if we didn't plan on marketing the kit for sure I would have left it and drove it, but because we are planning on producing it, we want to have a mixture that is a bit on the rich side. We are almost positive the ecu is pulling because if we add more fuel with the greddy, the mixture will richen, then lean out again on it's own. We have checked all connections, voltage readings from sensors and fuel pressure, and all are in spec. We have removed the Pressure riser completely and are running only the E-Manage and a adjustable regulator. Base Idle pressure set at 40 psi - 50 psi for testing, and still even if we get it to run in the 13.5 range, it will raise back to 14.5-14.8 after a while. We have also capped/clipped the Air Flow sensor to approx 3.8 volts, the map sensor does not see boost either. We do have some ideas we will be trying, simular to a Greddy Black box that they use in the Honda kit. Spoolin do you have an email address you use? Just wanna fire off some ideas/questions to you? At the shop the internet is slow, so browsing takes forever sometimes.Hey squashy...
I live in Toronto as well.... My friend and I would love to go and check out your system. If you can e-mail me at j_camirand@hotmail.com we can set a time up to check it out.
Thanks
Jc
I live in Toronto as well.... My friend and I would love to go and check out your system. If you can e-mail me at j_camirand@hotmail.com we can set a time up to check it out.
Thanks
Jc
DooMer_MP3
Member
Hey Stou,
It seems to me now that you got the few kinks worked out of your system that yours is one of the best kits out there, and If I remember correctly, it wasn't THAT expensive. AND your running with stock timing!? Does extreme machines have ANY plans on making some prefab kits available to the public? I really dig your setup...
Chris
It seems to me now that you got the few kinks worked out of your system that yours is one of the best kits out there, and If I remember correctly, it wasn't THAT expensive. AND your running with stock timing!? Does extreme machines have ANY plans on making some prefab kits available to the public? I really dig your setup
...Chris
Doomer_MP3, it cost me $5500 canadian for the complete job (without the clutch). It's around $3500 US.
Yes I run stock timing but always use 94 octane gaz.
I don't think they plan to do a bolt on kit for the MP3. But you can check with them Extreme Machine
Yes I run stock timing but always use 94 octane gaz.
I don't think they plan to do a bolt on kit for the MP3. But you can check with them Extreme Machine
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