Turbo cams, headwork, other engine mods

[peepsalot]

I'm interested in what can be done to our engines to make them flow better, and trying to figure out how cheaply it can be done.

Right now I'm trying to find out more about cams, and maybe some headwork while I'm at it.

Are the stock cams really suited for FI applications at all? What sort of properties do you look for in a cam for turbo applications. Lift, duration, overlap, etc?
I saw a thread about a jspec intake cam, but it looked like they were made more for NA applications, and I didn't know if MSP's would benefit from them.
Also, it was mentioned that you could get a blank cam and get it custom ground by crower. Has anyone done this? Do you have to give them all the specs, or do they figure out what will work good for you? Any idea what this would cost?
What kind of gains could be expected from some custom, optimal cams on our engines(intake or exhaust or both)? Would this be a cheap mod in terms of horsepower/money?

Would new springs or anything else be necessary? How much would those run?

I like the idea of making the most out of a lower amount of boost, and hopefully keeping some reliability by giving better flow instead of just upping the boost for more power.

As far as headwork, anyone know where I could get this done? And how much I should expect to pay for a spare head? How much does extrude honing usually cost? Anyone that has gotten their head ported care to chime in?

Any other suggestions for engine tweaks along these lines?

 

[CustomMSP]

Hey,

For a turbo engine we need high lift cams with less duration for very little overlap. A lift of about .350" should work out pretty well based on what I was told by a cam profiler...but it's hard to tell without comparing a few profiles side by side on the dyno. I think with a lift of .350" and under you should be alright with stock cams. Plus the same profile will have a different effect on every car.

I have a few profiles that were already used on some FS-DE engines by a camshaft shop that I'll have to dig up.

I don't think you can get the most lift by grinding the cam...you'll want to have it hardwelded or billet with the new profile.

I know our exhaust cam is very tiny. It's best to start with the exhaust cam if doing one at a time. Try contacting Webcams.

I'm sure the pros will chime in soon.

 

[jeffmsp]

i picked up a spare head to do this earlier in the year, however for me the cost/hp ratio just wasnt there so i sold the head. (all the places around here want to much $)I think juan and others are boosting 20psi on a larger than stock turbo using the stock head and components. I am sure there is power to be found with cams and porting etc. but at what cost? for me it was too much. anywhere i went to find cams quoted me alot, so i figured i am better off spending the $ on an EMS. you may just want to look into a set of cam gears to play with for now.

 

[peepsalot]

I think with a lift of .350" and under you should be alright with stock cams.

This sentence confuses me. You mean alright with stock springs? How could I raise the lift with stock cams?

 

[SDprotege]

the jspec cams work well with a turbo i've seen 13.2 on a MSP powered P5 with the cams, as for head work it can get costly i paid $600 to have mine done

 

[peepsalot]

the jspec cams work well with a turbo i've seen 13.2 on a MSP powered P5 with the cams, as for head work it can get costly i paid $600 to have mine done

Well who knows what else it took to make it go that fast, just becuase a fast car had cams on it doesn't tell me much about how well the cams themselves work.

What kind of gains did you get from head work?

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

The J-spec cams are not suited for a F/I. They have too much overlap.

All I can tell you is if you want the headwork done right it will cost you some serious money. For the valve-job, back cutting the valves, deshrouding the valves, and combustion chamber re-shaping alone is costing over a grand. If I went to NAPA it would cost around 150$.

However anybody can just shine something up, it takes years of experience and some expensive equipment to make decent gains.

 

[Spooled]

I have been interested in cams for the sake of extending the powerband upward. Unfortunatly that usually means increasing the overlap, which, like CustomMSP said, isn't good for FI cars. You end up blowing half the charge straight out the tail pipe while boosting. But a high-lift exhaust cam with some free-flowing exhaust could wake the car up.

 

[peepsalot]

The J-spec cams are not suited for a F/I. They have too much overlap.

All I can tell you is if you want the headwork done right it will cost you some serious money. For the valve-job, back cutting the valves, deshrouding the valves, and combustion chamber re-shaping alone is costing over a grand. If I went to NAPA it would cost around 150$.

However anybody can just shine something up, it takes years of experience and some expensive equipment to make decent gains.

I don't' know a lot about valve jobs and changing angles and combustion chamber reshaping. That kind of stuff scares me a bit. I was just thinking smoothing out the runners up to the valves and stopping there. (Or maybe do the extrude hone thing)

So you are saying NAPA will do headwork? The parts store? But you don't think the amount of work they do is worth the money?

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

They do valve jobs. You can/will gain more from a well thought out valve job then you would from porting and polishing.

 

[SDprotege]

They do valve jobs. You can/will gain more from a well thought out valve job then you would from porting and polishing.

have you seen the stock ports? there is pleanty of room for more HP

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

Nope....never seen them. lol

 

[CustomMSP]

This sentence confuses me. You mean alright with stock springs? How could I raise the lift with stock cams?

You're right I ment to say springs.

 

[SDprotege]

Nope....never seen them. lol

that's what i'm talking about..lol

 

[Mental Addiction]

Right now we are working on a race head.Our head has Stainless steel valves, aftermarket valve springs,retainers,etc.The head includes gasket matching of the ports, blending the valve seats, and completely smoothing the valve guides to match the port roof. Ports are completely reshaped and polished for maximum flow and velocity. Combustion chambers are reworked and polished.Retail is going to be around $1600

 

[BlkZoomZoom]

Right now we are working on a race head.Our head has Stainless steel valves, aftermarket valve springs,retainers,etc.The head includes gasket matching of the ports, blending the valve seats, and completely smoothing the valve guides to match the port roof. Ports are completely reshaped and polished for maximum flow and velocity. Combustion chambers are reworked and polished.Retail is going to be around $1600

Arn't the stock valves stainless steel (at least the exhaust is)?
Any before and after flow numbers?

 

[mspeed101]

Right now we are working on a race head.Our head has Stainless steel valves, aftermarket valve springs,retainers,etc.The head includes gasket matching of the ports, blending the valve seats, and completely smoothing the valve guides to match the port roof. Ports are completely reshaped and polished for maximum flow and velocity. Combustion chambers are reworked and polished.Retail is going to be around $1600

Nice!!

 

[Mental Addiction]

No, they are not SS.Yes, before and after numbers will be posted

 

[vindication]

it doesn't include cams does it Beau?
if someone has the money and can do before and after dynos on stock and worked heads with the wagner cams in, that would be great. his cams have undergone heavy fire but nobody has done any testing to them as far as I know. His fi cams might be ready to order but I'm not sure. I do know that the wagner cams are a pretty penny, hopefully there not just reground

 

[peepsalot]

Didn't know wagner had cams, got a link for more info?