Truth about K-Sports?

[ApexUMS]

I'm glad you saw it too. And this answer doesn't really sit right with me...

"how is K-sport figuring out what valving will work with spring rates on a particular car?"
"As for the valving..its matched to the spring rates I ordered"

He didn't ask IF it was going to be matched, but how it would be matched. IE, what are they using to determine what valving they need for your spring rates on your car.

Good points both of you. I didn't ask "if" its going to be matched because I trust Ksport. I have used there products for a year and had no issues. Neither has their driver in the various Time Attack events that they have won. I would think that as long as the shocks are valved to match up with the spring rates I specified then I am happy. Its pretty obvious that I don't know as much about suspension as you guys to try and argue this any further.


I know that it works for me and those who use it here locally and at other events around the country.

Thats enough to make me happy and continue to offer it to people.

 

[aMaff]

Good points both of you. Its pretty obvious that I don't know enough about suspension to try and argue this any further. I know that it works for me and those who use it here locally and at other events around the country.

Thats enough to make me happy and continue to offer it to people.

hahaha fair enough

 

[autoxes]

Flame suit : On

I'm running ground control coilsleeves on Illuminas and am pretty darn pleased with the setup. Haven't seen that one thrown out there yet.

 

[xelderx]

Flame suit : On

I'm running ground control coilsleeves on Illuminas and am pretty darn pleased with the setup. Haven't seen that one thrown out there yet.

 

[LinuxRacr]

^^^ (rlaugh)

I wonder what a graph of the Tein Super Street Coilovers would look like? My Teins still feel smooth, for over a year, until I hit some big bumps. Only gripe I have is the End-Link tabs. Kinda weak...

 

[aMaff]

I wonder what a graph of the Tein Super Street Coilovers would look like? My Teins still feel smooth, for over a year, until I hit some big bumps. Only gripe I have is the End-Link tabs. Kinda weak...

Rogue's broken 1 of his front endlink tabs.

 

[LinuxRacr]

I broke one of my rear tabs..

 

[insite]

sorry to resurrect an old thread. i was researching these KSport units and came across your 'shock dyno' graphs. what are you trying to display here? you have graphed force vs. displacement, but the force required to compress or decompress a damper is INDEPENDENT of displacement. force applied to a damper is dependent on VELOCITY. force vs. displacement can work for SPRINGS but you are asserting this to be a shock dyno graph. it certainly is NOT a shock dyno graph. please explain what exactly you are trying to show here and what you think this is telling you. i appreciate anyone's effort in testing various products, but when you introduce gobledygook asserted as fact, it would be good to know what you're talking about.

insite (an ACTUAL engineer)

 

[insite]

p.s.

you DID take the springs off before you put them in the dyno, right?

 

[Fear]

Oh. s***. Son.

 

[red95_240sx]

???

 

[ForceFed]

LOL....I will refrain from any further comments.

 

[red95_240sx]

hey insite where did u go to school at?

 

[insite]

georgia tech


looking at the website for jeff's shop, it appears they are an authorized koni dealer & service shop. apparently they have a roehrig dyno (good stuff) and have been in business long enough to know how to use it.

apologies for coming in 'guns blazing'; i've been reading site after site today of people complaining about their coilovers of various brands not performing properly when it is clear from photos & commentary that they trashed the installation or the setup. clearly i was in a bad mood. sorry.

at any rate, back to the issue at hand: virtually every shock dyno graph i have ever seen is of the force vs. velocity type. the force required to move a damper really doesn't change with displacement; it changes with velocity. accordingly, i cannot see how the charts posted by jeff could tell us with any degree of certainty how a given damper performs. graphing force vs. displacement makes sense for a progressive rate spring, but not for a damper.

not saying this graph can't tell us what we need to know; simply saying that i don't understand how it can. jeff's shop clearly has a lot of experience in the industry; looking forward to enlightenment.

 

[red95_240sx]

I understood that, but i still dont understand the chart

 

[gottacatchup]

I could be very wrong here so don't quote me but I believe that the type of shock dyno they were using compresses and extends the damper at a constant velocity. Therefore it does make sense that they graph force vs. displacement because velocity is held constant.

Moreover I think they were only trying to show the lack of build quality and complete inconsistency between two supposedly identical dampers. The numbers aren't really important in this case just the relationship between the two dampers.

 

[insite]

I understood that, but i still dont understand the chart

no joke. the chart he posted kind of looks like half of a progressive rate spring graph. consider a progressive rate spring with a rate of 250 lb/in^2. we could graph force vs. displacement. we'd see that as we stretch or compress the spring 1", the required force would be 125lb. as we pass 2", it would be 500lb. 3 inches? 1125lb. this would be useful information.

since dampers control the RATE of compression or rebound, we are interested in the rate at which a damper soaks kinetic energy from a loaded spring. say we have the 500lb spring above and that wheel has a 1000lb static load from the car. that spring would compress 2" to normal ride height. now let's say we take a turn that results in 500lb ADDITIONAL weight transfering to this wheel. the spring would compress an additional 1". the rate at which this occurs is controlled by the damper. a shock dyno would be able to tell us the rate at which this would occur. the graph above tells us nothing of the sort.

when we match shocks left to right (in road racing), we want to ensure equal rates of weight transfer in ADDITION to equal rates of spring. ideally, our measured spring rates will be within 5% of one another and our high and low speed compression & rebound rates would also be within 5% of one another. as it were, jeff's graph does not give us enough information to determine whether these shocks perform. in addition, the huge difference between the left and right shocks that he asserts his graphs are showing us would only be possible if the shim stacks in the dampers were improperly assembled. considering KSport's ISO9001 cert, this is unlikely to have occured at all, let alone with both the front and rear dampers he tested.

 

[insite]

I could be very wrong here so don't quote me but I believe that the type of shock dyno they were using compresses and extends the damper at a constant velocity. Therefore it does make sense that they graph force vs. displacement because velocity is held constant.

Moreover I think they were only trying to show the lack of build quality and complete inconsistency between two supposedly identical dampers. The numbers aren't really important in this case just the relationship between the two dampers.

a CV plot would be the ONLY way that graph would make sense. the problems is that the force required to actuate the damper still shouldn't change with displacement unless there is a spring attached. if there IS a spring attached, then all we know is KSport installed different springs left to right.

i still have to ask, though, why wouldn't he give us the velocity plots if he took the time to test these units? no one cares about CV plots; cars are dynamic.

 

[Shadow102]

Thought i would chime in but just to add to the k-sport=junk part of this thread....third shock in less than 20k miles is officially toast

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

Thought i would chime in but just to add to the k-sport=junk part of this thread....third shock in less than 20k miles is officially toast

damn, those are really bad news.... wow, I'm starting to think i did good when i decided for the Tein Super Street Coil overs...