The diesel are coming the diesel are coming
- Thread starter Reggae
- Start date
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- RDX Aspec Adv.
I'm not averse to the transmission shifting gears. Torque is nice though, and all things equal, I'd rather have the performance of the diesel over the gas burner, but not at the cost of an unproven design. I don't know what changes were made, but changes WERE made to the NA vehicles, I betcha, and I am not going to be a guinea pig.
True. Mazda needs to get in an agreement with Tesla just like rav4 and Mercedes b class did. Added hp and torque would be good. Got my oil change done and this was my first. Think i will be getting 30+ mpg on my mixed commute. 45mph/30+ mpg ftw.
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- Plano, Texas, USA
Changes indeed were made to SkyActiv-D 2.2L diesel by Mazda for NA market. But it only added urea injection to meet US emission standard. Urea injection system has been used on diesels for many years even in the US. I wouldn't worry the technology itself. But I believe with added expense of periodical urea refills, and the problem of completing the full DPF regeneration cycle, the MPG saving on diesel simply becomes worthless. That's why even VW is giving up on its TDI and thinking the diesel market is dying! I'm really questioning the wisdom of Mazda trying to come out its diesel at this time to a very limited US diesel market!
Mazda's low-compression SA-D diesels do have their uniqueness. But only very limited diesel fan in US would be interested to get one. The timing is totally off. Mazda should simply add the urea injection and sell the diesels in the US few years ago. Now they're giving up their belief of not using the urea, but it's years too late!
I too somewhat question Mazda's move with the SkyActiv D, which is risky for a small company. While I think most issues with oil dilution were resolved, there is some evidence that some people are still experiencing it, so perhaps not completely resolved and that predominantly short drives might be a bad idea. There is also the higher purchase price and potentially more expense in normal maintenance.
However, I am less concerned with reliability in general, as this is the same engine that's been used in Australia, Japan and Europe since 2012. I am also not concerned with increased cost of DEF or similar. AFAIK, Mazda will need a smaller tank and DYI is not hard nor expensive. Diesels usually last longer, but there is no guarantee this will be the case with this engine.
Regarding driving experience, I think stock it will probably be roughly on par with the 2.5L gas engine 0-60, but much more pleasant to drive, with all the low-end torque. Since most people don't do fast 0-60 anyway, it is the feel of when they press on the pedal that count and there the diesel will shine.
It does make sense to have this engine in general, though with risk of adoption issues, because it will be significantly more fuel-efficient, placing Mazda way ahead of everyone else, even when considering Diesel sells for a bit more in some places.
With the race to meet future EPA targets, a diesel engine makes sense without compromising driving fun. Unlike the HCCI engine, which is really pushing the envelope in every way, e.g. might not be ready for production because of fundamental issues, this diesel engine is a safer bet.
If I were Mazda, I would not invest in Hybrid technology, which has been around for many years now and where Mazda is seriously lagging, and instead go directly to electric, closer to when they are ready for prime time. Currently, only a fraction of owners buy electric and Mazda, as a small company, will only get a small fraction of that market. Instead, they should go after the large pie of the ICE engine and make it significantly more efficient than what others are doing.
However, I am less concerned with reliability in general, as this is the same engine that's been used in Australia, Japan and Europe since 2012. I am also not concerned with increased cost of DEF or similar. AFAIK, Mazda will need a smaller tank and DYI is not hard nor expensive. Diesels usually last longer, but there is no guarantee this will be the case with this engine.
Regarding driving experience, I think stock it will probably be roughly on par with the 2.5L gas engine 0-60, but much more pleasant to drive, with all the low-end torque. Since most people don't do fast 0-60 anyway, it is the feel of when they press on the pedal that count and there the diesel will shine.
It does make sense to have this engine in general, though with risk of adoption issues, because it will be significantly more fuel-efficient, placing Mazda way ahead of everyone else, even when considering Diesel sells for a bit more in some places.
With the race to meet future EPA targets, a diesel engine makes sense without compromising driving fun. Unlike the HCCI engine, which is really pushing the envelope in every way, e.g. might not be ready for production because of fundamental issues, this diesel engine is a safer bet.
If I were Mazda, I would not invest in Hybrid technology, which has been around for many years now and where Mazda is seriously lagging, and instead go directly to electric, closer to when they are ready for prime time. Currently, only a fraction of owners buy electric and Mazda, as a small company, will only get a small fraction of that market. Instead, they should go after the large pie of the ICE engine and make it significantly more efficient than what others are doing.
Mazda makes the current Toyota Yaris's at its Mexico plant, complete with skyactiv engine. I would think they would partner with them for hybrid drivetrain. I wouldn't count this out- a few years ago they had a prototype hybrid with a rotary based range extender. Rotaries are great for this application because it runs at a constant speed and its more compact than other engine types.
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- Plano, Texas, USA
True. But rotary engines first need to overcome the emission issue which is hard to do like 2-stoke engines. The oil consumption、fuel economy、and reliability are also the hurdles need to be overcome!
Not as hard when you can optimize for one speed! The rotary is just for generating electricity.
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- RDX Aspec Adv.
Exactly. It's like the Lexus LFA all over again, except cheap. They kept screwing around for so long that their technology is now out of date due to the rest of the world not really asking for that anymore.
they already license the hybrid technology from Toyota (albeit older version)... they're selling a hybrid version of the 3 in Japan... it's mated to the 2.0l SkyActiv-G engine... but because it's an afterthought, the batteries eat up 1/3 of the trunk space
I have the 2.2l diesel with 175hp optimized to 210hp drive most short distance in the city but did not want to miss the fun of the Diesel engine!
For the diesel/DPF reg discussion, if the oil liquidity is to high and you get the warning from the computer before the regular service it is up to Mazda and you should/will get the oil change for free.
I know guys they have not payed for the first three years due to this normal/issue at Diesel engines. Just a month or two before the regular service. Don't panic for the warning of the board computer wich is a bit harsh and threatening. You can still drive short distances for weeks or even drive back smooth from a holiday trip home to your mazda dealer. Just check the oil level and give them a call to confirm the situation. I had this like all diesel driver I know.
All big car comp have this issue if you read their forums.
I always bring the Mazda original oil which I ordered online to save on it more then the half compared to the Mazda dealer at regular annual service period.
This is now in fact Mazda's problem not your, just extend the warranty all the time that they will cover any damage of the engine.
You can be concerned about the reg and always drive it till the end or see it like me after a while and just interrupt it if the journey is over. The modern engine with the computer can deal with it. I use a modul wich show when the reg is active also with a LED that you can see if the reg is active + you can also feel the reg while driving. The reg is always around 200-220km least for around 20km. If you interrupt it it will start again when the engine got the right temperature. Sometimes it already starts with around 65'c.
More concerning for me is the weak crankshaft which afterwords lead to a defect of the turbo.
Cheers 101
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- RDX Aspec Adv.
1) Your English is better than my German, props to you.
2) My gas burner gets an oil change every 5K miles.
3) I bought a Mazda because I was tired of bulls*** drama. This sounds a LOT like that. No thanks. I can "optimize" my 184hp gas burner to 210bhp any time I want with an OVT and intake.
According to one video i saw of the cx-5 the chap looking at the transmission consider it only ok for the standard output power, so i would suggest its unwise to increase power with out first reseaching the limits.
The chap from Germany more or less confirmed what i have said. Only i confused km for miles perhaps? otherwise regens are at a silly low milage, as short as 120 miles!
No wonder i only average 37mpg UK.
I also thought the wear problem was the camshaft not the crankshaft, although i also read the crank was lightweight to save weight, the reduction enabled by the lower comppresion ratio. Another reason not to increase power, maybe.
The chap from Germany more or less confirmed what i have said. Only i confused km for miles perhaps? otherwise regens are at a silly low milage, as short as 120 miles!
No wonder i only average 37mpg UK.
I also thought the wear problem was the camshaft not the crankshaft, although i also read the crank was lightweight to save weight, the reduction enabled by the lower comppresion ratio. Another reason not to increase power, maybe.
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1) they use exactly the same engine for the 150hp and 175hp version of the diesel and there is still powerspace above this 175hp left-that's why we try up till 210hp now after years. One guy drove 100000km with the optimization without any trouble. Anyways.
2) the problems with the crankshaft is a productionline problem of a special timeframe of the release. That's how it looks so far to me.
I still observe this topic with high interest.
I have also no problems with my damperbaby, just enjoy every ride in it[emoji847]
Cheers 101
OK, y’all are making me nervous, LOL. Reading this thread and other comments, it sounds like diesels are more complicated. Can you not just put in diesel fuel and drive, like a gas engine? I was excited at the prospect of a diesel because of possibly better mileage, but now I’m not so sure. Never driven a diesel, and my current ride is a hybrid. I’m a commuter driver who takes occasional road trips in excess of 100 miles (mostly just family trips out of state about 500 miles one way, for Christmas). Urban environment, surface streets – so about 80% of my driving is stop and go (which is why I got the hybrid, 10 years ago). Is a diesel an appropriate engine for me?
VW's TDI's were known to last a long time. Would be cool if someone with extensive knowledge of that engine compared to Mazda's would chime in.
Oh, and I don't haul/tow stuff (or feel the need to haul ass away from a green light) so torque isn't all that important to me.
Here in the US VW has a winning formula with their small turbo gas (petrol) engines. I had a rental Jetta with the 1.5?L turbo engine and that thing was pretty zippy. At least down low up through 4k RPMs or so. Excellent MPGs too.
I actually had 2 previous gen Jettas with inline5 N/A engines. Those things were no frills bullet proof engines. Only downside was poor MPGs. I believe they used the same tranny that Toyota uses as well. Again a solid combo. Later I moved on to a VW CC with 2.0T engine. That was a sweet engine. Instant torque yet good MPGs because of small displacement. Never had a TDI though but there many going into the 200k, 300k and up range. You'd figure Mazda can make a diesel engine that lasts as long.
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