Sway bars
- Thread starter JustMe
- Start date
7
70
Um, smaller than 25mm...I think, I don't know for sure.
I would bet in the 22mm or so range.
I would bet in the 22mm or so range.
I have the 19mm bar.. and it's not been plug and play.. that's for sure.. lol... but we used some molybdenum type of grease.. thick stuff that i recommend using some old gloves or latex gloves to put on... cause it won't wash of very easy...
i'm thinking of going to a 21.5 mm or the 20 mp3 (or is that mazdaspeed???)
is there gonna be much diff btw that and the 19mm?
is it correct to assume that the 20mm mp3 one doesn't have as many fitment issues as the 19mm?
sorry for all the q's. i did a search and tried to get as much info from all the other threads...
i'm thinking of going to a 21.5 mm or the 20 mp3 (or is that mazdaspeed???)
is there gonna be much diff btw that and the 19mm?
is it correct to assume that the 20mm mp3 one doesn't have as many fitment issues as the 19mm?
sorry for all the q's. i did a search and tried to get as much info from all the other threads...
i have the front and rear sway bars from the MP3 on my car. i put the rear one on myself, but i let a shop (run by a friend) put on the front one. i can tell a huge difference. i also put on the MP3 struts and i have lowered my car with eibach springs. all this deffinitely makes the car more fun to drive.
Just a thought about rear bars.
In Australia we have a 20mm adjustable rear bar from Whiteline meaning 2 settings to play with.
www.whiteline.com.au
They export everywhere, so no problems.
$A220 plus tax so about $US164 at current exchange rate.
I use this bar on a car lowered 40mm, along with a bunch of other stuff.
Works beautifully, easy install and would be something a bit different.
They also do an alloy strut brace which I have too (mine was the jig car) for $A180, so about $US135.
Just remember a Protege5 is called an Astina SP20 in Australia....
In Australia we have a 20mm adjustable rear bar from Whiteline meaning 2 settings to play with.
www.whiteline.com.au
They export everywhere, so no problems.
$A220 plus tax so about $US164 at current exchange rate.
I use this bar on a car lowered 40mm, along with a bunch of other stuff.
Works beautifully, easy install and would be something a bit different.
They also do an alloy strut brace which I have too (mine was the jig car) for $A180, so about $US135.
Just remember a Protege5 is called an Astina SP20 in Australia....
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
Just to clarify some issues:
there is a noticable degree of stiffness between the 19mm AWR bar and the 21.5mm bar...A bunch of guys on the pclub tried both and commented...But there are material differences between the AWR pieces and other brands...sway bars are made with torsion properties similar to how springs are made, but without knowing the torsional rigidity of the AWR bars or SRmotorsports or whiteline bars, it is difficult to compare...The AWR 19mm very well could be significantly stiffer than other 20mm bars, or the other way around...It just depends on the alloys and materials used...
With a larger rear swaybar, you bias the traction limit towards the rear end of the vehicle...The advantage is that the car is seemingly easier to rotate into and around corners...it also helps with straightline driving, in that it keeps the rear end in place rather than like a rope in the wind (hold a rope with about 2 feet of slack, and hang it out your window at 60mph...that is the comparison I was stabbing at)...
The disadvantage is that you largely change the understeer/oversteer nature of the car...With the 21.5mm the rear end will give out first...that has been proven by about 3 accidents, and 20 or so close calls...and this applies especially in the wet...Some guys were getting scary rear end behaviour simply be lifting the gas midturn on wet pavement...If you are prepared for the changes of the car, you can compensate...
this pertains mostly to a stock P5...the wagon's have the closest to 50/50 weight balance of any of the third gens (not by much, but enough to make a difference...it is still has 60+% in front from what I remember)...The MP3's/MSP's already have a bigger front bar, so the 21.5mm won't bias the traction limits as much...and the ES/LX/DX sedans accept this mod well because of the already large bias towards understeer...with the 21.5mm you get the handling pretty close to neutral...The P5's take it well to, but with the 21.5mm rear bar they become the most tail happy of the entire group...the weight over the rear end from the hatch and longer roof (this has little to do with the overall weight of the car, but more to do with where exactly the weight is located), accompanied with the stiff rear bar could get scary with bad tires in back...
I am not trying to be overly cautious...I have just seen at least 3 guys smack their cars up with a AWR 21.5mm rear bar, whom all oversteered...and a ton of other guys almost lost it...I always recommend checking your tire condition too before installing one..especially on the rear...
there is a noticable degree of stiffness between the 19mm AWR bar and the 21.5mm bar...A bunch of guys on the pclub tried both and commented...But there are material differences between the AWR pieces and other brands...sway bars are made with torsion properties similar to how springs are made, but without knowing the torsional rigidity of the AWR bars or SRmotorsports or whiteline bars, it is difficult to compare...The AWR 19mm very well could be significantly stiffer than other 20mm bars, or the other way around...It just depends on the alloys and materials used...
With a larger rear swaybar, you bias the traction limit towards the rear end of the vehicle...The advantage is that the car is seemingly easier to rotate into and around corners...it also helps with straightline driving, in that it keeps the rear end in place rather than like a rope in the wind (hold a rope with about 2 feet of slack, and hang it out your window at 60mph...that is the comparison I was stabbing at)...
The disadvantage is that you largely change the understeer/oversteer nature of the car...With the 21.5mm the rear end will give out first...that has been proven by about 3 accidents, and 20 or so close calls...and this applies especially in the wet...Some guys were getting scary rear end behaviour simply be lifting the gas midturn on wet pavement...If you are prepared for the changes of the car, you can compensate...
this pertains mostly to a stock P5...the wagon's have the closest to 50/50 weight balance of any of the third gens (not by much, but enough to make a difference...it is still has 60+% in front from what I remember)...The MP3's/MSP's already have a bigger front bar, so the 21.5mm won't bias the traction limits as much...and the ES/LX/DX sedans accept this mod well because of the already large bias towards understeer...with the 21.5mm you get the handling pretty close to neutral...The P5's take it well to, but with the 21.5mm rear bar they become the most tail happy of the entire group...the weight over the rear end from the hatch and longer roof (this has little to do with the overall weight of the car, but more to do with where exactly the weight is located), accompanied with the stiff rear bar could get scary with bad tires in back...
I am not trying to be overly cautious...I have just seen at least 3 guys smack their cars up with a AWR 21.5mm rear bar, whom all oversteered...and a ton of other guys almost lost it...I always recommend checking your tire condition too before installing one..especially on the rear...
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twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
that is why i'm not upgrading the rear bar until i upgrade the front to 25 or 27mm (pref 27mm)
- :
- 92 & 16 Meyatas
i have the awr 21.5 with adjustable end links and the thing is awesome! got it from mitch @ protege5online!!
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70
Tires have a lot to do with what Installshield 2 said. Just last night I came into a corner a little too hot, I thought i was going to understeer bad, but caught it just right and the back stood and went out.
Thanks to having good tires with good tread the wheels stayed planted and the back end settled down and I didn't lose control of the car.
I have been thinking about getting the 21.5mm bar from AWR to get the back to come around a little more. But, i do know that the way the MP3 is set up, the tail twitches with trail-braking a corner. However, it feels like it will understeer towards the limit unless I bump the brake or abruptly let up off the throttle.
I'm thinking the larger bar will help bring the rear around when the suspension is loaded so I don't have to do some hair brained manuever to get the ass around.
Thanks to having good tires with good tread the wheels stayed planted and the back end settled down and I didn't lose control of the car.
I have been thinking about getting the 21.5mm bar from AWR to get the back to come around a little more. But, i do know that the way the MP3 is set up, the tail twitches with trail-braking a corner. However, it feels like it will understeer towards the limit unless I bump the brake or abruptly let up off the throttle.
I'm thinking the larger bar will help bring the rear around when the suspension is loaded so I don't have to do some hair brained manuever to get the ass around.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
StuttersC...It appears you very much so understand the handling prowess of your MP3...your post is identical to how a stock one felt to me when I drove it over 2 years ago...I noticed a slight feeling towards understeer while gassing all the way through a hard turn, which is the case with pretty much any FWD, but just by simply lifting the throttle midturn you could rotate the rear around...and then with just a slight decrease in steering input you could set up an almost drift like exit...Feels incredible, but can be scary and takes practice...It seems you know what I am talking about though...
Anyone that isn't familiar with how scary oversteer is, if you get a bigger rear bar...always brake well before the turn and try to stay on the gas for the most part through it...that will keep everything pretty much nuetral..DO NOT get a 21.5mm and enter a turn hot, then mash the brake near mid turn...YOU WILL loose an argument with a telephone poll, ditch, on coming vehicle, or guide rail etc. if you are not ready for it...after you get the feeling of what the rear bar changed, you will be better able to explore the new limits...
this probably sounds like a b****y overly cautious Mom talking...But you can very easily get a stock 3rd gen protege to oversteer by doing the brake mash thing mid turn...with a bigger rear bar the oversteer threshold is that much closer...
Anyone that isn't familiar with how scary oversteer is, if you get a bigger rear bar...always brake well before the turn and try to stay on the gas for the most part through it...that will keep everything pretty much nuetral..DO NOT get a 21.5mm and enter a turn hot, then mash the brake near mid turn...YOU WILL loose an argument with a telephone poll, ditch, on coming vehicle, or guide rail etc. if you are not ready for it...after you get the feeling of what the rear bar changed, you will be better able to explore the new limits...
this probably sounds like a b****y overly cautious Mom talking...But you can very easily get a stock 3rd gen protege to oversteer by doing the brake mash thing mid turn...with a bigger rear bar the oversteer threshold is that much closer...
mazdamp3_18
Member
- :
- 06 gti, 06 evo IX
just to let you guys know progress group is releasing a larger sway bar for the mp3 this spring...
this will also work for the p5 and other sedan proteges....
i may be getting the prototype before the release...
chris
this will also work for the p5 and other sedan proteges....
i may be getting the prototype before the release...
chris
mazdamp3_18
Member
- :
- 06 gti, 06 evo IX
and YES the mp3 is easy to spin...
so far i have spun 3 times...
only got damage 1 time...
exploring the oversteer limits of the mp3 can be scary at times....
i completely agree that if you cannot drive your car well stock dont get a larger sway bar yet..
do some autoxing to learn your car...
i have autoxed my mp3 for 2years and im still learning it...
but soon ill have coilovers ... so i will have to relearn my car again...
so far i have spun 3 times...
only got damage 1 time...
exploring the oversteer limits of the mp3 can be scary at times....
i completely agree that if you cannot drive your car well stock dont get a larger sway bar yet..
do some autoxing to learn your car...
i have autoxed my mp3 for 2years and im still learning it...
but soon ill have coilovers ... so i will have to relearn my car again...
I've got the Adjustable Whiteline bar that Critter mentioned earlier, with it set on the stiffest setting it has equivalent roll stiffness as a 24mm bar.
I find that it is pretty neutral unless you do something stupid like a panicky mid corner lift-off on an off camber corner/roundabout in the wet.
Or something less stupid like snatching a wheel on entry to a turn so you go in too hot and there is gravel wash over the tarmac with a row of cars waiting to turn right in front of you. Wince and lift off and 'snap the arse is out. Nice drift attitude right enough but doesn't do too much for the Reg Grundies!
Seriously though - I was expecting some very nervous moments when I installed the bar, but it has been fairly mild in its temperament. If you find lift off oversteer an issue maybe you can look at additional rear neg camber to compensate.
Sorry about the length of the post...
I find that it is pretty neutral unless you do something stupid like a panicky mid corner lift-off on an off camber corner/roundabout in the wet.
Or something less stupid like snatching a wheel on entry to a turn so you go in too hot and there is gravel wash over the tarmac with a row of cars waiting to turn right in front of you. Wince and lift off and 'snap the arse is out. Nice drift attitude right enough but doesn't do too much for the Reg Grundies!
Seriously though - I was expecting some very nervous moments when I installed the bar, but it has been fairly mild in its temperament. If you find lift off oversteer an issue maybe you can look at additional rear neg camber to compensate.
Sorry about the length of the post...
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
nah good to see you posting here!
oh and for the backwards yanks - when he says a row of cars waiting to turn right in front of you, change the right for left
oh and for the backwards yanks - when he says a row of cars waiting to turn right in front of you, change the right for left
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70
twilightprotege said:nah good to see you posting here!
oh and for the backwards yanks - when he says a row of cars waiting to turn right in front of you, change the right for left
As for backwards, I was sure glad you guys put arrows on the streets telling me which way to look so I didn't get my damned ass run over trying to cross!
But, that bar sounds interesting...
Just some note for you guy, a bigger sway bar doesnt always mean a better one.
I have a set on my car too, best suspension mod beside upgrading sticker tires.
there's some silicone grease when i got mine too, come with custom bracket and bushing..but it's my honda
on fwd vehicle you want to run a larger rear bar, front is optional stuff i guess but i have a set of front and rear.
I have a set on my car too, best suspension mod beside upgrading sticker tires.
there's some silicone grease when i got mine too, come with custom bracket and bushing..but it's my honda
on fwd vehicle you want to run a larger rear bar, front is optional stuff i guess but i have a set of front and rear.
