Supercharger
- Thread starter Ryaso
- Start date
- :
- '13 CWP MS3 & '16 Mazda6 GT
nope
- :
- '13 CWP MS3 & '16 Mazda6 GT
And no body makes a kit for it as of now...
if he's asking its probably because someone dumber was trying to tell him he does.
now.........no a stock mazda mp3 will not have a supercharger. however, if you bought yours used and you have a reason to think its supercharged you should post up some pictures so that we could verify. it is possible that perhaps the previous owner had done some custom work to it. why do you think its supercharged?
now.........no a stock mazda mp3 will not have a supercharger. however, if you bought yours used and you have a reason to think its supercharged you should post up some pictures so that we could verify. it is possible that perhaps the previous owner had done some custom work to it. why do you think its supercharged?
- :
- Das Pretzelwagon
Now here's the question we should be asking.MP3Architect said:
There a supercharger
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99682
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99682
Official WOMP Supercharger Thread
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Through discussion and agreement with Antoine and the admins, I have agreed to take over sales, support and marketing for the WOMP Supercharger kit for the Protege. AMM status has been applied for, so WOMP can now be discussed open, freely and intelligently so.
Before I continue, let this be known. This thread is for the technical details, pricing, information and etc. This thread is not about turbo VS supercharger, haltech VS mpi, my ego VS your ego, vendor VS vendor. Any form of hostility, vendor bashing, product defamation or flame wars will not be tolerated. The moderators I have spoken with have agreed that any such behavior - regardless of who you are - in this thread will be grounds for post deletion or, if needed, a ban.
With that out of the way, we'll move onto the matter at hand. As many of us know, stock Mazda Proteges with the 2.0 liter engine dyno at a weak 95 to 98 wheel horsepower. Matty recently dynoed the supercharger kit and came up with promising results. At a max boost of 4.5 psi, dyno pulls showed gains of about 60 wheel horsepower, for a total of 158 wheel horsepower. The air to fuel ratio in boost was 9 to 1. Obviously, the air to fuel ratio was very rich and requires some leaning out leaning out. We're aiming more for an air to fuel ratio of 12 to 1, as the car will run more efficiently, use less fuel under boost and - most importantly - make even more power. Comparitively speaking this kit makes 13 horsepower per 1 psi, to say the turbo kit I use, which makes about 10 horsepower per 1 psi.
Final dyno numbers, air fuel ratios, etc, will be posted in the coming weeks.
To recap some of the FAQs asked about the supercharger;
#1. Why I chose a centrifugal blower over a roots blower.
I originally started this project with an Eaton M62 that I was going to mount above the exhaust manifold and just fabricate a discharge chute for the compressed air. This idea was doomed from the start. There are numerous reasons why I stayed away from the roots blower on this application. I'll just hit the highlights.
*excessive heat, cutting and splicing of critical engine harnesses, TB relocation, compressor location not ideal, not cosmetically pleasing, lack of ability to create higher boost pressures, sheer weight, etc. *
I knew a centrifugal blower would be a better design for this vehicle because of it's more compact design, ease of installation, greater power produced (more scalable), nicer appearance, etc. The roots blowers are INSANELY cheap....don't think I didn't try to make it work. In the end practicality won out over thriftiness.
#2. Why I chose the Powerdyne Supercharger for this kit.
Originally I didn't! This has been an evolving process and I've done my best to inform everyone along the way of obstacles I've faced and what I've done to overcome them. One of those obstacles was to make sure I could design something simple enough for a shade-tree mechanic with basic hand tools to be able to install this in their driveway without modification. This means no taping of the oil pan, no welding, no cutting metal (unless you want the FMIC option), etc. I knew that I wanted a "self-contained" blower. The only two self-contained blowers I have found are Powerdyne and ATI's Procharger. I LOVE the procharger. It is an amazing unit and very possibly the best supercharger on the market today. However, procharger doesn't feel that there is any money to be made supporting the Protg community and was unwilling to negotiate with me at all on pricing. Just their head unit cost me $2100. This is obviously pricing me out of my target price. I continued looking. A friend of mine who is a semi-pro drag racer turned me on to Powerdyne. He has a 5.0L mustang with a powerdyne blower and after talking with him about it and driving the car and hearing it (or not!) I was sold. The powerdyne blower has a few advantages over other superchargers. They are self-contained so there is no oil lines or coolant lines used. They are less expensive than a similar Procharger blower. They are internally belt-driven, not gear driven. They make NO NOISE. Even under full boost with no hood on you can't hear a tell-tale supercharger whine. Since a recirc valve is used very little discharge noise is heard and with a hood on the car none is heard. Because they aren't lubricated or gear driven they do not add excessive heat to the intake charge. Powerdyne shows 20-30* above ambient temp increases on their 6psi Mustang kit. This is AMAZING considering a turbo will add about 150* WITH intercooling. There are numerous reasons why this is a great blower for the car and I've touched on some of the better ones and I'm sure they will be discussed later on.
#3. How do you address engine control and fuel management?
I have gone through several options these past few weeks all the while knowing that one was better than the others. We will be using the Haltech F10X stand alone fuel management computer. Those unfamiliar with HALTECH it's a safe bet to say that they have one of the best engine management systems in the world. This new unit is WINDOWS TUNABLE making it much easier to adjust later. I will provide your base maps and you will need to dyno-tune to correct for a few variables I have no control over. The F10X includes, ecu, protg-specific wiring harness, 2 power relays, air temp sensor, coolant temp sensor, MAP sensor, throttle position sensor, com cable (for laptop), windows software and a users guide. The F10X can do amazing things such as (but not limited to) Turbo timer (not needed but neat), Torque converter control (for your auto guys), rev/speed limiter control, thermofan, intercooler fan, auxillary fuel pump, etc. I could spend hours going over the depth and range of this unit but I won't. Just know that THIS is how you want to control and tune any forced induction car. (www.haltech.com)
#4. What other mods will I need for this kit to work on my car?
This is often overlooked when adding a serious power-adder to a vehicle. The rest of the system must be able keep up with all of the extra air you're now cramming into the vehicle. I will be creating the intake, Haltech will handle the fuel, stock ignition is plenty good enough. That just leaves exhaust.
Aside from exhaust everything needed to make this run well will be included in the kit. Of course you will need to run a minimum of 91 octane unless you feel your tuning skills are THAT good. At this time I dont think any upgrades are needed to the fuel system.
#5. What happened to the front mount intercooler idea?
Intercooling became an issue when I was working on using the Procharger blower. ATI sells their superchargers with a small front mount intercooler because their blowers have internal gears and gear oil that get hot and add heat to the intake charge. This in turn makes the system less efficient and an intercooler is REQUIRED to keep the temps at an acceptable level. With the Powerdyne this is not a concern. Powerdynes are internally belt driven so they produce no additional heat or gear whine. Also since they aren't driven by hot exhaust gas they don't add 300* temps to their charge. Another great feature of the Powerdyne is in case of failure. Eventually the internal belt inside the blower will break. This is not a big problem at all. Should the belt break while you're driving the car YOUR CAR REVERTS BACK TO STOCK. It will idle and run like normal with the only side affect being no boost. Now, should you insert an intercooler into the mix then engine will actually have to suck harder to get air in it will cause some slight drivability issues.
#6. What additional maintaince will be needed with a supercharger?
referrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> ath o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> OCUME~1KENMIL~1LOCALS~1Tempmsohtml1\01clip_image00 1.gif" o:href="http://www.protegeclub.com/images/smilies/evil_laughter.gif"/> <!--[if !vml]--> Better keep an eye on your tires! You will want to make sure your vehicle is in tip-top shape at all times but you should be doing this anyway! Powerdyne blowers contain 4 bearing packs and a drive belt. Typically these last for about 55Kmiles. At that time Powerdyne suggests a rebuild of the blower. I can rebuild the head unit for you with upgraded bearings and a full Kevlar GATES belt for about $250. After the upgrade the belt shouldn't need replacing for about 75K miles and the bearings should never need replacing again.
#7. Why does this require me to remove my AC?"
There are several important reasons why the AC has to come out. It's easier to understand if you know the first major rule of supercharging...the blower pulley has to be in a direct line of sight from the crank pulley. As with a turbo charger you are forced to mount the blower in a specific location so it can be driven by the crank. With a turbo it has to mount to the head at the exhaust manifold. Sure it can be mounted in a different location and a sub-standard header used to feed it but you sacrifice doing that. The same is true for a supercharger. I could've made 6 different brackets and idler pulleys and gear drives to mount the blower on the drivers side and still retain the AC. This is a very poor way to deliver power to a supercharger. The more connections you have between the crank pulley and the blower pulley, the less efficient you are. Now, why the AC compressor? Well, this supercharger is designed to increase overall drivability. Removing the power steering pump severely hurts drivability. I understand about heat...trust me. We have 99* days here with 90% humidity and no wind. I like AC but not as much as I like boost. In order for the blower to be able to receive air and still fit in that same plane with the crank pulley it has to be mounted up top on the passenger if the engine bay. The ps pump is very tiny and neatly tucks up under the blower right near the engine block. This does 2 things. 1. it takes up less space that is used for the charge air and 2. placing the smaller ps pump up close to the block in the lower spot provides more "belt wrap" on the blower pulley to prevent slipping. Another thing to keep in mind is the belt routing. The belts and pulleys all have to spin the correct way pump properly. you cant just throw another pulley in-between two pulleys without reversing their direction....now you've got to add ANOTHER pulley to correct that. There is very little space as it is. If it's any consolation Powerdyne was working on a 1.6L honda civic supercharger kit. It required removal of the ac also. Vortech had a big recall on their 1.6L and 1.8L honda/acura superchargers because the AC would kick on and destroy the drive belt. Their ac has to go also. Believe me when I say I'm not being lazy and taking the easy way out. Compromises have to be made somewhere.
Although the kit has not been run at a 1/4 mile track yet, the WOMP powered protege5 trapped at 78 mph on an 1/8th mile track. We fully expect to gain 15 to 20 more horsepower simply through leaning out the fuel curve under boost.
The kit will come with the following components;
-Powerdyne BD600 Supercharger (Factory Warrantied)
-OBX 4 to 1 header and MIL eliminator
-Supercharger drive belt
-Haltech F10X Fuel Management Computer and custom wiring harness and sensors
-Mounting hardware and 4.5 psi pulley
-Bosch Recirculating Bypass Valve
-Slimline Fan
-Aluminum intake and charge pipes
-High flow cone air filter, all silicone hoses and t-bolt clamps
The Haltech F10X will be tuned from us in the same manner that the Hiboost turbo kit is. They will be tuned conservatively/mildly rich for safest operation. For optimium performance you may choose to tune the fuel map on your own or have it tuned on a dyno. The cost of this kit will be $3299 plus shipping. If you already have a header and do not need the OBX included the price is $2999 plus shipping. We are considering a kit without the F10X, possibly with a fuel pressure regulator, for a cheaper entry level kit as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Through discussion and agreement with Antoine and the admins, I have agreed to take over sales, support and marketing for the WOMP Supercharger kit for the Protege. AMM status has been applied for, so WOMP can now be discussed open, freely and intelligently so.
Before I continue, let this be known. This thread is for the technical details, pricing, information and etc. This thread is not about turbo VS supercharger, haltech VS mpi, my ego VS your ego, vendor VS vendor. Any form of hostility, vendor bashing, product defamation or flame wars will not be tolerated. The moderators I have spoken with have agreed that any such behavior - regardless of who you are - in this thread will be grounds for post deletion or, if needed, a ban.
With that out of the way, we'll move onto the matter at hand. As many of us know, stock Mazda Proteges with the 2.0 liter engine dyno at a weak 95 to 98 wheel horsepower. Matty recently dynoed the supercharger kit and came up with promising results. At a max boost of 4.5 psi, dyno pulls showed gains of about 60 wheel horsepower, for a total of 158 wheel horsepower. The air to fuel ratio in boost was 9 to 1. Obviously, the air to fuel ratio was very rich and requires some leaning out leaning out. We're aiming more for an air to fuel ratio of 12 to 1, as the car will run more efficiently, use less fuel under boost and - most importantly - make even more power. Comparitively speaking this kit makes 13 horsepower per 1 psi, to say the turbo kit I use, which makes about 10 horsepower per 1 psi.
Final dyno numbers, air fuel ratios, etc, will be posted in the coming weeks.
To recap some of the FAQs asked about the supercharger;
#1. Why I chose a centrifugal blower over a roots blower.
I originally started this project with an Eaton M62 that I was going to mount above the exhaust manifold and just fabricate a discharge chute for the compressed air. This idea was doomed from the start. There are numerous reasons why I stayed away from the roots blower on this application. I'll just hit the highlights.
*excessive heat, cutting and splicing of critical engine harnesses, TB relocation, compressor location not ideal, not cosmetically pleasing, lack of ability to create higher boost pressures, sheer weight, etc. *
I knew a centrifugal blower would be a better design for this vehicle because of it's more compact design, ease of installation, greater power produced (more scalable), nicer appearance, etc. The roots blowers are INSANELY cheap....don't think I didn't try to make it work. In the end practicality won out over thriftiness.
#2. Why I chose the Powerdyne Supercharger for this kit.
Originally I didn't! This has been an evolving process and I've done my best to inform everyone along the way of obstacles I've faced and what I've done to overcome them. One of those obstacles was to make sure I could design something simple enough for a shade-tree mechanic with basic hand tools to be able to install this in their driveway without modification. This means no taping of the oil pan, no welding, no cutting metal (unless you want the FMIC option), etc. I knew that I wanted a "self-contained" blower. The only two self-contained blowers I have found are Powerdyne and ATI's Procharger. I LOVE the procharger. It is an amazing unit and very possibly the best supercharger on the market today. However, procharger doesn't feel that there is any money to be made supporting the Protg community and was unwilling to negotiate with me at all on pricing. Just their head unit cost me $2100. This is obviously pricing me out of my target price. I continued looking. A friend of mine who is a semi-pro drag racer turned me on to Powerdyne. He has a 5.0L mustang with a powerdyne blower and after talking with him about it and driving the car and hearing it (or not!) I was sold. The powerdyne blower has a few advantages over other superchargers. They are self-contained so there is no oil lines or coolant lines used. They are less expensive than a similar Procharger blower. They are internally belt-driven, not gear driven. They make NO NOISE. Even under full boost with no hood on you can't hear a tell-tale supercharger whine. Since a recirc valve is used very little discharge noise is heard and with a hood on the car none is heard. Because they aren't lubricated or gear driven they do not add excessive heat to the intake charge. Powerdyne shows 20-30* above ambient temp increases on their 6psi Mustang kit. This is AMAZING considering a turbo will add about 150* WITH intercooling. There are numerous reasons why this is a great blower for the car and I've touched on some of the better ones and I'm sure they will be discussed later on.
#3. How do you address engine control and fuel management?
I have gone through several options these past few weeks all the while knowing that one was better than the others. We will be using the Haltech F10X stand alone fuel management computer. Those unfamiliar with HALTECH it's a safe bet to say that they have one of the best engine management systems in the world. This new unit is WINDOWS TUNABLE making it much easier to adjust later. I will provide your base maps and you will need to dyno-tune to correct for a few variables I have no control over. The F10X includes, ecu, protg-specific wiring harness, 2 power relays, air temp sensor, coolant temp sensor, MAP sensor, throttle position sensor, com cable (for laptop), windows software and a users guide. The F10X can do amazing things such as (but not limited to) Turbo timer (not needed but neat), Torque converter control (for your auto guys), rev/speed limiter control, thermofan, intercooler fan, auxillary fuel pump, etc. I could spend hours going over the depth and range of this unit but I won't. Just know that THIS is how you want to control and tune any forced induction car. (www.haltech.com)
#4. What other mods will I need for this kit to work on my car?
This is often overlooked when adding a serious power-adder to a vehicle. The rest of the system must be able keep up with all of the extra air you're now cramming into the vehicle. I will be creating the intake, Haltech will handle the fuel, stock ignition is plenty good enough. That just leaves exhaust.
Aside from exhaust everything needed to make this run well will be included in the kit. Of course you will need to run a minimum of 91 octane unless you feel your tuning skills are THAT good. At this time I dont think any upgrades are needed to the fuel system.
#5. What happened to the front mount intercooler idea?
Intercooling became an issue when I was working on using the Procharger blower. ATI sells their superchargers with a small front mount intercooler because their blowers have internal gears and gear oil that get hot and add heat to the intake charge. This in turn makes the system less efficient and an intercooler is REQUIRED to keep the temps at an acceptable level. With the Powerdyne this is not a concern. Powerdynes are internally belt driven so they produce no additional heat or gear whine. Also since they aren't driven by hot exhaust gas they don't add 300* temps to their charge. Another great feature of the Powerdyne is in case of failure. Eventually the internal belt inside the blower will break. This is not a big problem at all. Should the belt break while you're driving the car YOUR CAR REVERTS BACK TO STOCK. It will idle and run like normal with the only side affect being no boost. Now, should you insert an intercooler into the mix then engine will actually have to suck harder to get air in it will cause some slight drivability issues.
#6. What additional maintaince will be needed with a supercharger?
referrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> ath o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> OCUME~1KENMIL~1LOCALS~1Tempmsohtml1\01clip_image00 1.gif" o:href="http://www.protegeclub.com/images/smilies/evil_laughter.gif"/> <!--[if !vml]--> Better keep an eye on your tires! You will want to make sure your vehicle is in tip-top shape at all times but you should be doing this anyway! Powerdyne blowers contain 4 bearing packs and a drive belt. Typically these last for about 55Kmiles. At that time Powerdyne suggests a rebuild of the blower. I can rebuild the head unit for you with upgraded bearings and a full Kevlar GATES belt for about $250. After the upgrade the belt shouldn't need replacing for about 75K miles and the bearings should never need replacing again.
#7. Why does this require me to remove my AC?"
There are several important reasons why the AC has to come out. It's easier to understand if you know the first major rule of supercharging...the blower pulley has to be in a direct line of sight from the crank pulley. As with a turbo charger you are forced to mount the blower in a specific location so it can be driven by the crank. With a turbo it has to mount to the head at the exhaust manifold. Sure it can be mounted in a different location and a sub-standard header used to feed it but you sacrifice doing that. The same is true for a supercharger. I could've made 6 different brackets and idler pulleys and gear drives to mount the blower on the drivers side and still retain the AC. This is a very poor way to deliver power to a supercharger. The more connections you have between the crank pulley and the blower pulley, the less efficient you are. Now, why the AC compressor? Well, this supercharger is designed to increase overall drivability. Removing the power steering pump severely hurts drivability. I understand about heat...trust me. We have 99* days here with 90% humidity and no wind. I like AC but not as much as I like boost. In order for the blower to be able to receive air and still fit in that same plane with the crank pulley it has to be mounted up top on the passenger if the engine bay. The ps pump is very tiny and neatly tucks up under the blower right near the engine block. This does 2 things. 1. it takes up less space that is used for the charge air and 2. placing the smaller ps pump up close to the block in the lower spot provides more "belt wrap" on the blower pulley to prevent slipping. Another thing to keep in mind is the belt routing. The belts and pulleys all have to spin the correct way pump properly. you cant just throw another pulley in-between two pulleys without reversing their direction....now you've got to add ANOTHER pulley to correct that. There is very little space as it is. If it's any consolation Powerdyne was working on a 1.6L honda civic supercharger kit. It required removal of the ac also. Vortech had a big recall on their 1.6L and 1.8L honda/acura superchargers because the AC would kick on and destroy the drive belt. Their ac has to go also. Believe me when I say I'm not being lazy and taking the easy way out. Compromises have to be made somewhere.
Although the kit has not been run at a 1/4 mile track yet, the WOMP powered protege5 trapped at 78 mph on an 1/8th mile track. We fully expect to gain 15 to 20 more horsepower simply through leaning out the fuel curve under boost.
The kit will come with the following components;
-Powerdyne BD600 Supercharger (Factory Warrantied)
-OBX 4 to 1 header and MIL eliminator
-Supercharger drive belt
-Haltech F10X Fuel Management Computer and custom wiring harness and sensors
-Mounting hardware and 4.5 psi pulley
-Bosch Recirculating Bypass Valve
-Slimline Fan
-Aluminum intake and charge pipes
-High flow cone air filter, all silicone hoses and t-bolt clamps
The Haltech F10X will be tuned from us in the same manner that the Hiboost turbo kit is. They will be tuned conservatively/mildly rich for safest operation. For optimium performance you may choose to tune the fuel map on your own or have it tuned on a dyno. The cost of this kit will be $3299 plus shipping. If you already have a header and do not need the OBX included the price is $2999 plus shipping. We are considering a kit without the F10X, possibly with a fuel pressure regulator, for a cheaper entry level kit as well.
- :
- Das Pretzelwagon
Did you really feel it necessary to link, and then copy, the whole damn thing? We know about WOMP.
The problem with it is that it seems to be perpetually stuck in the development phase, and the guy who created/manufactures it is not allowed to post on the forum.
Besides, the orginal poster's question seemed to ask if the MP3 came with a supercharger, not if a kit existed. Looking back at it, I don't know what the hell he wants.
The problem with it is that it seems to be perpetually stuck in the development phase, and the guy who created/manufactures it is not allowed to post on the forum.
Besides, the orginal poster's question seemed to ask if the MP3 came with a supercharger, not if a kit existed. Looking back at it, I don't know what the hell he wants.
SilverBulletES
Member
- :
- '90 MX-5, '00 328i
You can buy my stake in it. See below. Then you only have 1500+ more to go, depending on how you'll engine manage.
SilverBulletES
Member
- :
- '90 MX-5, '00 328i
Replica said:
Hey don't get testy man. Many of us have ES's or P5's. Not the limited edition PR5 which had the supercharger already installed.
SilverBulletES
Member
- :
- '90 MX-5, '00 328i
I'd just never heard of a PR5, thought it might be some JDM model you imported with a S/C. (kiss) (wiggle)
