DigitalDuality
Member
Is there a strong arguement in my posts you'd care to tackle? Or just cheap shots about my lack of knowledge about guns? Or the small chance of suburbia crime that turns violent?
Break-ins into homes in suburbia, 9 times out of 10, are a bunch of harmless troublemakin teenagers.
Break-ins into homes in suburbia, 9 times out of 10, are a bunch of harmless troublemakin teenagers.
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WeldingHank
Member
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- 1989 Ford Probe GT
we have plenty of laws, why don't we just enforce them?
DigitalDuality said:
And will staring down the barrel of a 9mm not stop a bunch of teenagers from coming back to your house, and give them some serious second thoughts about breaking into anyone else's house from then on?
And what about those that enjoy recreational shooting? Why should we be punished? I love to go out in my back yard (I live in a VERY rural area) and shooting targets. Is there anything wrong with that?
Cheap shots? I personally think they are valid points. Perhaps you should learn about things more. It might lead you to a less ignorant point of veiw.
DigitalDuality
Member
I didn't say BAN guns... i said hunting is fine. You don't need an automatic weapon to go hunting.
There are better ways to handle teenagers breakin in a house than pointing a gun at them. Call the cops. How many people pull a gun on a teen breaking into a house, and accidentally shoot them? Kids don't need to die b/c of youthful mistakes, not even chance it.
Less ignorant point of view? Please explain to me what i stated that's exactly "ignorant". I might have stated views that differ than yours.. but they're sure as hell not stupid.
Do you have a way to improve the violence situation in america? I stated i'm against suing gun makers for someone dying, but i do think legislation needs to be passed to further restrict weapons.
Other than for redneck s**** and giggles no one needs semi and automatic weapons, i'm sorry as hell.
But ya know what... Don't reply to any of the above.. If i'm so ignorant.. i want you to do something for me.
Tell me your theory that would decrease gun violence in america?
All i heard was you complaining about teenagers breaking into your house, and shootin dem darn pesky critters in there those hills.
Better yet, any one here who owns a gun.. tell a story about how it has really helped your life, Did it save you from dying? Were you able to fully protect yourself?
I've never owned a weapon, I leave my car and my apt unlocked quite frequently.. and i live in a rather bad neighborhood. I think i'm the only white person here. I saw a swat team just bust up an apartment 4 buildings away from me 2 weeks ago.
Yet, i've lived here for 2 years and never been ****** with. never needed a weapon. Wow.. imagine that. If someone wants to protect themselves, fine.. you can have a gun after the weighting period.. and a normal fucken gun. But most people that own em for those reasons are just plain paranoid, or had 1 tiny tramatic mishap, and all of a sudden their insecurity takes over into paranoia.. yay.. that's all we need, people scared about s***... with weapons.
At least i give something a fair and objective look, but whatever.. i'm the dumb ass right?
There are better ways to handle teenagers breakin in a house than pointing a gun at them. Call the cops. How many people pull a gun on a teen breaking into a house, and accidentally shoot them? Kids don't need to die b/c of youthful mistakes, not even chance it.
Less ignorant point of view? Please explain to me what i stated that's exactly "ignorant". I might have stated views that differ than yours.. but they're sure as hell not stupid.
Do you have a way to improve the violence situation in america? I stated i'm against suing gun makers for someone dying, but i do think legislation needs to be passed to further restrict weapons.
Other than for redneck s**** and giggles no one needs semi and automatic weapons, i'm sorry as hell.
But ya know what... Don't reply to any of the above.. If i'm so ignorant.. i want you to do something for me.
Tell me your theory that would decrease gun violence in america?
All i heard was you complaining about teenagers breaking into your house, and shootin dem darn pesky critters in there those hills.
Better yet, any one here who owns a gun.. tell a story about how it has really helped your life, Did it save you from dying? Were you able to fully protect yourself?
I've never owned a weapon, I leave my car and my apt unlocked quite frequently.. and i live in a rather bad neighborhood. I think i'm the only white person here. I saw a swat team just bust up an apartment 4 buildings away from me 2 weeks ago.
Yet, i've lived here for 2 years and never been ****** with. never needed a weapon. Wow.. imagine that. If someone wants to protect themselves, fine.. you can have a gun after the weighting period.. and a normal fucken gun. But most people that own em for those reasons are just plain paranoid, or had 1 tiny tramatic mishap, and all of a sudden their insecurity takes over into paranoia.. yay.. that's all we need, people scared about s***... with weapons.
At least i give something a fair and objective look, but whatever.. i'm the dumb ass right?
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DigitalDuality said:
First:
You earlier stated that did did not know about guns. That is why I said ignorant.
Second:
I did not call YOU ignorant, I said your point of view was.
Third: The use of Redneck Undertones was completely un-called for. Yes I live in Kentucky, get over it. That my friend is just as bad a racisim. And for that also my personal opinion of you has dropped significantly. I was trying to keep this a civilized discussion, until you pulled that s***.
I should call the cops eh? You know how often I you ever see police here? I the 2 years I have lived here I have seen pilice near my house twice. I'm sure they will get here very quickly though.../sarcasm
As for you being a dumb ass I never meant to imply that, I just stated you opinion was un-informed....
DigitalDuality
Member
ok ..skipping the dramatic crap..
if the police are lacking in their abilities to respond, then that's another issue that needs to be addressed.
Two things i can't stand about police forces is their abuse of their power, then the ineffiency to respond quickly to a situation.
And for the 3rd time, do you have a theory to a solution of america's gun violence?
if the police are lacking in their abilities to respond, then that's another issue that needs to be addressed.
Two things i can't stand about police forces is their abuse of their power, then the ineffiency to respond quickly to a situation.
And for the 3rd time, do you have a theory to a solution of america's gun violence?
DigitalDuality said:
Well what am I suppose to do? Ask the state police to pretty please put a station closer to my house?
As for a solution, I have yet to look over any of the statictics etc., I am ignorant of this.
I just don't believe banning of any guns is the right idea.Ok, look at it this way. Now to buy an assault rifle you have to register it etc. Out of all the assault rifles used in murders in the last year how many do you think were obtained in the legal manner? I'm willing to bet a VERY small number of them, due to the ability to trace it back to owner. Now say that you ban the sale of all Assault rifles. What does that shut down? Just the legal avanues of getting, which would not have been used to commit a crime in the first place. So what does that solve? Taking guns out of the hands of responsible law abiding citizens. Even if you outlaw them do you think that it will make is any harder on criminals to get them?
Hate to use a cliche, but:
If you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns.
Edited for spelling and grammar.
Hate to use a cliche, but:
If you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns.
Edited for spelling and grammar.
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loj68
DigitalDuality said:
I think you have problem with criminals and not guns. The rate of gun ownership in Canada is just as high is the USA and their murder rate is ZIP so banning guns is clearly not the answers. In areas where guns are totally banned there are the highest instances of gun violence (D.C and certain African countries to name a few). I as a law abiding citizen can own any auto or semi auto I want and will not commit crimes. Those that do should be punished. Criminals and psycho's who get guns do so illegally and should also be punished. Weapons are not the problem.......criminals are. If you make laws that make it more difficult to get guns then you only affect law abiding citizens who already AREN'T the problem. Criminals already break the law to get their weapons and more laws will not affect them. You opinions on what kind of guns we "need" really make no sense. And no, if this legislation saves just "one" life it is entirely NOT worth it.........this is a matter of freedom......and many more than ONE person has died for it. I'm always amazed at how easily people like you would give up the freedoms that we have. There are costs that go with such freedom.....if increased violence is that then so be it......I'll pay it if it means freedom to own guns and do as I please. Remember, Nazi Germany was about the safest place to live in the 30's.....no crime, murder, etc......oh yeah....no guns either.
DigitalDuality
Member
so why is america's gun violence problem? Anyone?
Where do you start? I'd much rather see our gun Rights... not banned, but restricted, than say.. our freedom of speech and expression. People are always quick to blame rap music, marilyn manson, video games, books, magazines, etc... All which i take part in, yet haven't gotten into a fight since i was in elementary school.
Restricting guns, might not make it impossible for these particular guns to end up in the wrong hands... but hey, they are ALREADY in the wrong hands, why not make it more difficult for them?
I've still yet to here a good arguement about why someone should own a semi or automatic weapon other than "i want to".. and "if people die b/c of this freedom, so be it".. How fucken petty and self serving over materialistic bulls*** and entertainment value.
I am well aware of Canada's statistics... so again, why is america so trigger happy?
You're all bitching about "the cost of this freedom"... what will not owning semi and automatic weapons do, to devalue the quality of your life? huh? Maybe i'd like to have various exploses b/c i think its cool.. should i be able to have those? Even with permits? Should i have a grenade launcher in my semi-urban arparment complex? I mean.. why restrict it? right? Why restrict any weapons if we're going on your point of view? Its OUR RIGHT.. RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.. says so right in the constitution.
Why is it ok to ban one thing and not another? A true analyzation please, i don't want to hear this crap that's just recycled traditionalistic s***. Traditions need to be questioned and revaulated continually.. so i'm not accepting that as a reply. Logically, what "arms" should we be allowed to have? Automatic weapons? Explosive weapons? How about bullets that can pierce bullet proof vests of cops and milatary personelle? Chemical weapons? Should pipe bombs be legal?
You're taking my "restriction" to an extreme of an absolute ban in Nazi germany, believe me.. the table flips both ways. I'm not one for extremes, i don't want a ban, and would stand up bitching just as feverantly against it as i am now.
And about "sniper rifles".. lol .. yup they sure served they're purpose in the VA, DC, and MD areas... How many random victims were there? I forgot.
Where do you start? I'd much rather see our gun Rights... not banned, but restricted, than say.. our freedom of speech and expression. People are always quick to blame rap music, marilyn manson, video games, books, magazines, etc... All which i take part in, yet haven't gotten into a fight since i was in elementary school.
Restricting guns, might not make it impossible for these particular guns to end up in the wrong hands... but hey, they are ALREADY in the wrong hands, why not make it more difficult for them?
I've still yet to here a good arguement about why someone should own a semi or automatic weapon other than "i want to".. and "if people die b/c of this freedom, so be it".. How fucken petty and self serving over materialistic bulls*** and entertainment value.
I am well aware of Canada's statistics... so again, why is america so trigger happy?
You're all bitching about "the cost of this freedom"... what will not owning semi and automatic weapons do, to devalue the quality of your life? huh? Maybe i'd like to have various exploses b/c i think its cool.. should i be able to have those? Even with permits? Should i have a grenade launcher in my semi-urban arparment complex? I mean.. why restrict it? right? Why restrict any weapons if we're going on your point of view? Its OUR RIGHT.. RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.. says so right in the constitution.
Why is it ok to ban one thing and not another? A true analyzation please, i don't want to hear this crap that's just recycled traditionalistic s***. Traditions need to be questioned and revaulated continually.. so i'm not accepting that as a reply. Logically, what "arms" should we be allowed to have? Automatic weapons? Explosive weapons? How about bullets that can pierce bullet proof vests of cops and milatary personelle? Chemical weapons? Should pipe bombs be legal?
You're taking my "restriction" to an extreme of an absolute ban in Nazi germany, believe me.. the table flips both ways. I'm not one for extremes, i don't want a ban, and would stand up bitching just as feverantly against it as i am now.
And about "sniper rifles".. lol .. yup they sure served they're purpose in the VA, DC, and MD areas... How many random victims were there? I forgot.
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loj68
DigitalDuality said:
I'd rather see neither restricted. I use guns not only for fun (ie: target practice/skeet shooting) but for personal and home defense.
again, this does NOT make it any more difficult for criminals to get guns.....it makes it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to get guns. When I want to buy a new competition shotgun for skeet competitions I have to go to the sheriff....get fingerprinted......fill out an application......pay $25 for 5 purchase permits......then wait 7 days. It is a ridiculous law that only impedes non-criminals. If I was a criminal I could go out right now and get my gun with no waiting........any new restrictions simply won't affect the people you're worried about.
Personal/home defense, defense against tyranny (as stated above), combat shooting competitions. And that's just me.....there are certainly others.
well, besides infringing on my rights given by our founding fathers, it would not allow me to protect my home and family. I don't know if you watch the news but there are plenty of "home invasion" crimes going on these days where 2 to 6 people storm a home. Try defending yourself against that with a baseball bat and a little Judo training. No sir.......semi-auto rifle for me thanks! I wish it could be auto but the laws have already restricted us too much. I have to wait to be class C certified before I can own auto's.
I personally think it's a little difficult to defend yourself with grenades and chemical weapons because it's pretty hard to just target a single person with them so likely that stuff would stay restricted to military use. Things like this really never have been available for civilian use so that's why you don't see many gun people caught up in these analogies. As you say, this analogy is an "extreme"
Again, you're talking about criminals and not guns.......a sniper rifle in the hands of a law abiding citizen is no problem and should not be restricted in any way. On the other hand, a STOLEN bushmaster carbine rifle in the hands of a murdering psychopath and an illegal alien is a pretty dangerous thing. Again, the gun laws were comletely circumvented by these criminals.....more restrictions would not have hindered them in the least........but people in VA and DC who may have wanted to defend themselves during the violence would not have been able to do so......in VA they would have to had waited a few days first.....in DC they are just s*** out of luck.
...........Those were easy....anything else?
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When looking at US crime statistics, it is a poor arguement to look at another nation's crime statistics as a comparrison. For any crime, little alone gun crimes.
WHY?
Because the US culture is completely different from ever other culture on the planet...
When you go to China, who do you predominantly see? Chinese.
When you go to Japan, who do you predominantly see? Japanese.
The same goes for every other country in thw world, except America.
When I look around the US I see every one, Japanese, Chinese, German, Mexican, Spanish, etc, etc.
In the US, there are so many cultures that view the world differently. And US laws are not viewed the same as by someone who gorws up in the "typical white American suburban household."
Another example of this would be "statutory ****." Or sex with an underage person. It is a crime that is committed in the US quite a bit but usually never punished because of cultural differences, among other reasons.
How do you control gun violence is the US? By actually punishing those criminals who obtain guns illegally.
I see this situation exactly as it has been said already. Gun registration is BS. Guns laws are rediculous. It only punishes the legal gun owners and gives the government an easy way to track who they need to talk when it comes time to try to take the guns away.
As for the crime in suburbia comment, nine times out of ten, it is not teens horsing around breaking into houses. And yes, if some jack ass teen breaks into my house jackin' around, your damn right he needs a gun pointed in his face.
It doesn't matter if he's making a mistake, if he intends to break into my house, he better know damn well that if he looks like he is going to attack me, his ass is going to get shot.
Some of the most violent people are burglars who break into houses when, or they think, no one is around.
WHY?
Because the US culture is completely different from ever other culture on the planet...
When you go to China, who do you predominantly see? Chinese.
When you go to Japan, who do you predominantly see? Japanese.
The same goes for every other country in thw world, except America.
When I look around the US I see every one, Japanese, Chinese, German, Mexican, Spanish, etc, etc.
In the US, there are so many cultures that view the world differently. And US laws are not viewed the same as by someone who gorws up in the "typical white American suburban household."
Another example of this would be "statutory ****." Or sex with an underage person. It is a crime that is committed in the US quite a bit but usually never punished because of cultural differences, among other reasons.
How do you control gun violence is the US? By actually punishing those criminals who obtain guns illegally.
I see this situation exactly as it has been said already. Gun registration is BS. Guns laws are rediculous. It only punishes the legal gun owners and gives the government an easy way to track who they need to talk when it comes time to try to take the guns away.
As for the crime in suburbia comment, nine times out of ten, it is not teens horsing around breaking into houses. And yes, if some jack ass teen breaks into my house jackin' around, your damn right he needs a gun pointed in his face.
It doesn't matter if he's making a mistake, if he intends to break into my house, he better know damn well that if he looks like he is going to attack me, his ass is going to get shot.
Some of the most violent people are burglars who break into houses when, or they think, no one is around.
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- 99 LX
If push comes to shove I'd rather have my 38 special than a 911 operator 
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loj68
Witchdoktor said:If push comes to shove I'd rather have my 38 special than a 911 operator
yup.....
I think this is one of the cultural things that separates us from the world as far as our love of guns. We have a rather high level of independence......we like to handle our own s*** and protect our own family and posessions. In many other countries they are satisfied with letting the authorities do the job.......here we are bred with a more "wild west" mindset where we handle our own bid'ness.........I like it that way.
Logical paradox #1 You can influence the behavior of people who are law breakers by passing more laws... does anyone see the problem here? We've all seen how effective the war on drugs has been.
As far as the whole "teenagers breaking into houses for kicks" arguement... ******* shoot them dead in your livingroom! If it's the middle of the night and there's someone you don't know in your house you don't have time to call 911 and wait or acertain just what their intentions are. I have a 1-way deadbolt so you can't get in with a key when I'm home asleep, or the wife's home alone. If someone kick's the door in or scales the wall to get in the window they've got something a bit more serious on their minds than just messing around. I'm gonna put a ******* 115gr. Hydrashock right through their X ring! It's not my responsibility to teach the misguided youth of America the morals they didn't get at home by not shooting them and instead, having a heart to heart with them in my living room at 4:00AM. If it's dark and I have no idea if they're armed themselves, nor what they're intentions are I'm going to shoot them.
Read John Lott's "More Guns Less Crime" if you want the skinny on gun crime. There are several other good books on the subject but this one is one of the best researched. He actually uses (among other sources) real FBI crime Data and includes all the raw tables so you can follow his thesis. It's a sad fact that on this highly polarized issue people are rarely rational, and nobody ever seems to have facts that really add up. The media is always touting all sorts of BS figures that are just that, BS, and nobody ever calls them on it. BTW... The UK's per capitia murder rate is much worse than ours... Check it out.
As far as the whole "teenagers breaking into houses for kicks" arguement... ******* shoot them dead in your livingroom! If it's the middle of the night and there's someone you don't know in your house you don't have time to call 911 and wait or acertain just what their intentions are. I have a 1-way deadbolt so you can't get in with a key when I'm home asleep, or the wife's home alone. If someone kick's the door in or scales the wall to get in the window they've got something a bit more serious on their minds than just messing around. I'm gonna put a ******* 115gr. Hydrashock right through their X ring! It's not my responsibility to teach the misguided youth of America the morals they didn't get at home by not shooting them and instead, having a heart to heart with them in my living room at 4:00AM. If it's dark and I have no idea if they're armed themselves, nor what they're intentions are I'm going to shoot them.
Read John Lott's "More Guns Less Crime" if you want the skinny on gun crime. There are several other good books on the subject but this one is one of the best researched. He actually uses (among other sources) real FBI crime Data and includes all the raw tables so you can follow his thesis. It's a sad fact that on this highly polarized issue people are rarely rational, and nobody ever seems to have facts that really add up. The media is always touting all sorts of BS figures that are just that, BS, and nobody ever calls them on it. BTW... The UK's per capitia murder rate is much worse than ours... Check it out.
And for the 3rd time, do you have a theory to a solution of america's gun violence? [/B][/QUOTE]
I do, bring back concentration camps, and put the stupid people of this country in them. This should help out with population control as well, I figure we could wipe out more than half the country in less than a year. Then, other law-abiding gun owners such as myself could target shoot or hunt without having to worry about losing our rights because of the stupidity of others.
I do, bring back concentration camps, and put the stupid people of this country in them. This should help out with population control as well, I figure we could wipe out more than half the country in less than a year. Then, other law-abiding gun owners such as myself could target shoot or hunt without having to worry about losing our rights because of the stupidity of others.
DigitalDuality
Member
All of you are under the assumption that this is only going to deter non-criminals b/c you have to be pestered with 7 day waiting periods and the like.
Yes there's alot of an underground concerning weapons, but the restriction would make it severely more difficult for both people alike. Most murders in america are done with registered guns, even if they're stolen.
To cap off my theory on it, i don't think gun restrictions should be the only thing done but i think our prison system needs to be re-evaluated. #1- get rid of capital punishment. #2- get rid of libraries, television, $1000 workout machines, etc.. and make them work 8-9 hours a day and make them contribute something back to society. If you kill, ****, or molest a child, **** you.. you're never getting out, no rehabiliatation.
MadRyan-- you're actually pretty correct on the drug war analogy.
But i think the drug war and gun violence are seperate issues in alot of ways, and are connected in alot more. IF you were to legalize drugs, you'd kill that black market. Tax the s*** out of it, and force the corporations and use the tax money derived for it to attack drug use as a social problem (rehab, propoganda against it and education about it, etc..)
Destroying the drug war, would immediately destroy alot of violence within and outside of this country. Pump more money into our economy, and allow us to attack the drug problem as it should be.
But as to your reference to shoot first ask questions later? Real typical.
Witchdoctor--quit assuming i want to ban weapons, quit assuming i want to ban people having the right to protecting themselves.
The only weapons i want gone are semi and automatic weapons. I think they should be strictly under milatary control. As a reference to the explosives not being able to hit a single target, do you really need an M-16 to do that? Can't a hand gun do the same thing? and with less trouble? and less damage?
you have a link to back that up?
and lastly.. "i'm talking about criminals.. not guns".. How many people just fucken snap? Perfect law abiding citizens who all of sudden feel that rush of power b/c of gun, lose their cool about this and that, and just fucken shoot people? Happens all the time, it isn't just organizaed crime, gang bangers, and the like.
Yes there's alot of an underground concerning weapons, but the restriction would make it severely more difficult for both people alike. Most murders in america are done with registered guns, even if they're stolen.
To cap off my theory on it, i don't think gun restrictions should be the only thing done but i think our prison system needs to be re-evaluated. #1- get rid of capital punishment. #2- get rid of libraries, television, $1000 workout machines, etc.. and make them work 8-9 hours a day and make them contribute something back to society. If you kill, ****, or molest a child, **** you.. you're never getting out, no rehabiliatation.
MadRyan-- you're actually pretty correct on the drug war analogy.
But i think the drug war and gun violence are seperate issues in alot of ways, and are connected in alot more. IF you were to legalize drugs, you'd kill that black market. Tax the s*** out of it, and force the corporations and use the tax money derived for it to attack drug use as a social problem (rehab, propoganda against it and education about it, etc..)
Destroying the drug war, would immediately destroy alot of violence within and outside of this country. Pump more money into our economy, and allow us to attack the drug problem as it should be.
But as to your reference to shoot first ask questions later? Real typical.
Witchdoctor--quit assuming i want to ban weapons, quit assuming i want to ban people having the right to protecting themselves.
The only weapons i want gone are semi and automatic weapons. I think they should be strictly under milatary control. As a reference to the explosives not being able to hit a single target, do you really need an M-16 to do that? Can't a hand gun do the same thing? and with less trouble? and less damage?
you have a link to back that up?
and lastly.. "i'm talking about criminals.. not guns".. How many people just fucken snap? Perfect law abiding citizens who all of sudden feel that rush of power b/c of gun, lose their cool about this and that, and just fucken shoot people? Happens all the time, it isn't just organizaed crime, gang bangers, and the like.