STS Build - 2003 Protege LX

[benjpi]

Okay, both the car and the driver are progressing. I've upgraded the suspension, and am going for tires next. After that, I'd like some power please.

I'm thinking of upgrading to an MP3 manifold and ECU, in addition to the standards:

1. advance timing
2. cold air intake
3. cat back exhaust
4. header

I think those are about the limits of what I can do in STS. I know 1-4 are all legal, but what about the MP3 manifold and ECU? I mean, if the MP3 is still an STS car, does that mean that upgrading the LX to the MP3 parts is legal? Are next-model bumps like this okay? If the MP3 ECU & manifold are worth 10hp, they are a big bang-for-buck upgrade. Does anyone know?

Ben

 

[aMaff]

the intake manifold is illegal, the ECU would be legal. You'll get a bump just from that, and a little from an intake.

 

[khaosman]

Yea intake manifold moves you up to SP. FSP I'd assume. But hey, do that, then you can get a LSD too

 

[2002yellowpro5]

so your saying i can get some extra hp from putting a mazda 3 computer in my pro5 and is there any other mods i need to do. im trying to stay in sts and i have a cat back , cai, poly busings, rb rear bar, tokico hp and eibach springs. I know i need tires or im going to kill my street ones.

 

[aMaff]

no...mazda 3 probably wouldn't even work. The MP3 one will.

 

[dmitrik4]

first step: download a rule book and read it.

ben- the only STS-legal header i know of for the protege is the Wagner shorty, b/c it doesn't move the pre-cat. if you get ridof that cat, you go to STX. no moving or removing cats in STS. be careful of the CAI as well; you're not allowed to move the washer fluid bottle to run the piping into the fender.

if you're in abington, i assume you're running w/ Philly region? if so, feel free to shoot me a PM or email; i think the LX could do well in STS. that suspension was my exact STS setup; it works pretty well.

 

[benjpi]

Well, we'll be (hopefully) running the North Jersey event tomorrow, at Englishtown raceway. The latest mods are:

1. Rotated the stock upper strut mounts for more caster (tip found on this website, with a link to Delsing Motorsports, RIP)
2. Set front wheels to toe-out, about 1/8"

When I was doing that I inspected the front tires, which are still the stock RE92's. The car has been sliding around ALOT lately, and I was starting to get really annoyed. Upon inspection, I saw that the tires are actually starting to crack/dry rot. They TECHNICALLY still have tread depth left, but they are hard as rocks and the WET traction is similar to rubber on wet manhole cover all the time.

So, I ordered a set of 205-50-15 Falken Azenis RT615's.

They should be on the doorstep on Monday, so tomorrow will be my last event on the stockers. Looking forward to another 7th place finish with the slider queen, and hoping that the Azenis will move me up by the time the first Warminster event rolls around in April.

I also found a link here to a guy who made his own equal-length headers that work with the stock cat. They kind of wound up then down, like a setup for a turbo. I haven't done it yet, but I was thinking of contacting the guy about the design/bend pattern. I have access to good fab equipment & tig welders, so I'd like to take a shot at making my own from stainless steel.

Last, the existing array of CAI's available make me nervous. They all sort of scream "rain & puddle intake system" to me. I'm considering taking a shot at adapting an airbox from a different car to the Protege. Maybe finding one from a larger displacement engine that has a larger surface area element, like from a Mustang for example. Then I can still use the more restrictive paper elements, but with a lower velocity & pressure drop. That was the approach that GM used to use on the old WSC series Firebirds if I remember right. I'll combine the larger box with a rounded inlet at the base & hopefully it will work out.

I'm happy with the performace of the suspension so far. The car is dark green with cheesy dealer pinstripes, and it still has the stock alloys. I don't even get a second look from the police or the ricers, its turning into a nice sleeper. I'd like to keep it with that low profile.

Mike, are you running Englishtown tomorrow? If so, I'll look for you to say hi.

Ben

 

[benjpi]

Okay, another autocross out of the way. I got 5th (out of 6) on the shot RE92's. For my ego's sake I'm blaming some on the tires: 4 of the finishers above me had RT615's, and one was running brand new Victoracer V710's. The V710's had me a little annoyed, but it was a spring non-points event so I dropped it.

The car was just starting to transition nicely in the slalom, just a touch of oversteer: the rear end would start to come around & transitioning back for the next cone caught it nicely.

The azenis should be mounted up tomorrow. I've heard estimates that the tires should give me between 1 & 2 seconds. If they did that I'd be ecstatic!

There was an Ariel Atom at the AX. Cool car. Two RX-8's too. Plus one NC Miata, so four Mazda's total. There was also a guy there who set FTD in an SM Honda civic. The motor sounded great, I think the guy was revving it out to about 9,000 rpm

 

[khaosman]

The Atom didn't have FTD? For shame!

New tires rock, I'd be surprised if you didn't improve times a good amount. And next time, tell that cheating V710 guy to go to FSP

 

[benjpi]

I brought the tires up to one of the officials, they didn't seem too prone to action. About then I remembered it was non-points & I let it go.

The guy driving the Atom was driving a bit more gently than most of the competitors. I think his perspective on the cost of the car was a bit different than most ax competitors. The bulk of the cars are either daily drivers or budget efforts. Even the fully modded SM cars look like they're the products of years of work & effort. When I saw the car in the morning, I was hoping to witness some hardcore FTD type runs but it wasn't to be.

The next most impressive run to see was a guy in an SM Subaru STI, he was closest to the Civic but did more lurid 4-wheel slides.

There was a drag race running at the same time, I've never seen so many Impala SS's at once. There was also one older Monte Carlo SS that had 4" turndown pipes exiting from the middle of the car. The ground shook when his car idled past after a run, and motor sounded great: it had that sharp rap of really high compression & open exhausts. Sweet music. The smell of race gas is great too!

Now, about that extra 80hp I need to compete with the Acura RSX's in the class....

 

[benjpi]

The Azenis are mounted!!! I played a little on my way home from the install, but I really need an AX event to see if they've made a difference. If anything they might feel a tad softer than the RE92's, but they are certainly louder!

Tomorrow I'll look for some spots where I can play a little, we'll see if they made a noticeable difference. They looked huge on the doorstep, but not so much different on the car. Still a stealth look!

 

[Katya4me]

The guy driving the Atom was driving a bit more gently than most of the competitors. I think his perspective on the cost of the car was a bit different than most ax competitors. The bulk of the cars are either daily drivers or budget efforts. Even the fully modded SM cars look like they're the products of years of work & effort. When I saw the car in the morning, I was hoping to witness some hardcore FTD type runs but it wasn't to be.

If the Atom owner is who I think it is, he came to our event on his way back home from picking it up in OR last year. Came out and watched, let us sit in the car, nice guy. But said it had "too much luggage" and despite having his own helmet, would not run it. We were all very saddened and shocked at this. Kinda like the guy who came out in a Ford GT to watch his nephew compete.

And yes, the Azenis should make a good difference, we've been running them on our 3 cars for the last 3 years and I hated the stockers. As for the 80 extra hp., GL.

 

[dmitrik4]

trust me, you don't need 80 extra hp to compete w/ RSXs in STS.

i think you might be referring to Traveler's header? That was a neat-looking design (and probably more effective than the Wagner), but i think you might be on your own as far as that goes.

sorry i missed your post up there; i hope to have a new autoX ride in time for the first philly region summer series event in April. Also, you should be planning to come to the Philly events at Warminster, which is a killer site.

 

[Jas00x]

STS is a tough class for the Protege, but a great class to start and really learn how to drive and tune the car.
Key areas are:

#1-wheels and tires - widest and lightest that are allowed- tire pressure is a key adjustable item
#2-suspension (including alignment- understand what adjustments do)
#3-better motormounts-(these will save your transmission and eliminate wheel hop!)
#4-power mods
#5-weight reduction

I hate to say it, but you will probably want a more aggressive coil-over suspension with front springs around 300# and rears around 600# and some quality dampers like Bilsteins or Koni's. AWR has made coilover sets for me and Justin (both FSP), but they are not cheap. I have Bilstein inserts and Justin has the Koni adjustable inserts off a Neon, I think.
Also go for the big 21.5mm adjustable AWR rear bar or i think Progress has a big bar available now too. The bigger bar helps create traction at the front wheels and gives you a little more oversteer.
Next big part is front camber plates. These are crucial. But you will have to understand that you can't adjust the camber without adjusting the toe (more negative camber will add toe in...so you have to adjust your toe after you dial in the camber).
For the back, AWR also makes adjustable lateral links that allow you to adjust rear toe and camber....but make sure you get ones with polyurathane bushings rather than spherical bearings (SB's are not legal for STS, STX, or FSP).
I have raced in STS with my car and I will tell you the only worthwhile STS legal "power mods" will be the Cold Air intake, ECU, and bigger cat-back exhaust. Underdrive pullies will probably help a little too. I had a "shorty" header by Wagner and it didn't seem to make much difference.
The final aspect would be trying to lighten up the car by getting lighter wheels, racing seats, smaller battery, remove AC and cruise control - to name a few things.
You certainly don't have to do all this at once! and doing so would probably make the car very difficult to drive right off the bat. So gradually upgrade the car with your skills and experience. Once you get a handle on your driving skills and feel like you have a good baseline- start making changes at every event you go to so that you can understand what suspension adjustments do to the handling and drivability of the car. Be carefull making alignment adjustments at the track- be sure to change them back to how you had them as aggressive alignment specs can increase tire wear on the way to and from events.

 

[benjpi]

Jason,

Thanks for the advice on the suspension. At the races, I'd like stiffer suspension. BUT the rest of the time this is my daily driver with the "I live in Pennsylvania" disclaimer. Remember this winter's debacle where the Penn DOT left people stranded for 22 hours on an interstate 'cuase they thought it would be better not to maintain the road till the storm was over? Yes? That same mentality applies to paving & summer maintenance as well. There are portions of Rt. 611 near my house where the stutter bumps approaching some lights are 3-4" tall. Going that stiff would rattle the car apart.

What I'd like to do is get my old BG camber plates on the car. I'm trying to think of a way to do it without going to GC coilover sleeves, but I don't know that its worth the effort. I may just have to wait till I can get the sleeves.

Lighter wheels may come in the fall, and I was already looking at the Odyssey 680. I was thinking about fabricating my own clunk-fix bracket & sticking with the 19mm Racing Beat rear bar I've already got.

I'll be trying again this Saturday, North Jersey SCCA, at the Englishtown raceway.

 

[benjpi]

Well, I got my NASA license & had my first opportunity to put it to good use. I got the car, my son (12) and my Dad (61) and piled in the Mazda for a good old fashioned road trip. We left Saturday around noon, and drove down Rt. 13 through Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia. We camped Saturday night at Kiptopeke State park, right before the entrace to the Bay Bridge / Tunnel.

After an uncomfortable night's sleep, we headed down to Langley Speedway for the Nasa Autocross, right across the street from the REAL NASA Langley wind tunnel. The wind tunnel was cool, but the event was AWESOME!

The track is a paved 0.4 mile oval. The ax course started on the outside of the oval, ran about 3/4 of the way around, then cut to the infield section of the track for the second half of the course. The first half of the course was fast (rev limiter in second), and the second was basically two very tight slaloms connected by a decreasing radius 180.

This was my kind of event: 8am drivers meeting, 8:15am course walk, first heat of drivers off at 8:30am. Each heat had about 20 cars, and the cars rotated through continuosly for TWO HOURS per heat. My dad & I each got 10 runs, at about 50 seconds each run. That simply blows the doors off any other SCCA event I've ever been at, and that includes the poorly-attended winter events. This was run on a clean, non-pothole-infested course, on a day when the temps were approaching 80!!! It was simply the best autocross I've attended to date (admittedly short time doing it, my 5th event)

If the trip wasn't so far, I'd go to every event. The results should be up later today, and I'll post them up then.

For those of you with closer access to Mid-Atlantic NASA autocross events, I highly recommend them!

Ben

 

[benjpi]

Checked the results. 3rd NASA F, 2nd STS, 43rd overall out of 69 entrants. The 3rd & 2nd sound nice when described in casual company, but 43rd not so much. MUST improve....

 

[benjpi]

Update:

Ran half the south jersey Autocross at Camden County Community College. Got third out of five in STS, and got 37th overall time out of 69 cars. Not too bad considering I skipped all my afternoon runs! I think I could have gone at least half a second faster in the afternoon runs, but of course you're always faster when you're bench racing!

The Warminster Autocross for the Philly SCCA is this Sunday, I've already preregistered. The Warminster course is very nice, usually at least a 60-second course with spots where you can at least think about 3rd gear. The STS list is usually 10-15 cars, so this should be a good placement event to see where I can run.

In preparation, we've made a few new modifications:

1. I de-snorkeled the stock airbox, and gutted the bottom half of the main box. All the plastic across the front and the part that drops down below the main box were taken out. Then I took a drywall cutting carbide bit & cut windows between the reinforcing ribs on the bottom half of the gearbox. I'll post pics up when I can find my digital camera.
2. I replaced the air filter with a new K&N type filter. The local speed shop sells a K&N competitor, Green, and they reccomended them. So I gave it a shot. It looks pretty similar to a K&N but the color is different, its green (go figger..).
3. I broke down and installed camber bolts in the front upper strut holes. I still haven't worked out the details to get my camber plates installed, and I really wanted more negative up front before the next event. The really needs help on turn-in & understeer. I got all I could from them. I checked the front toe & I went from very slight toe out to very slight toe in.

Results? The car is much louder now when I'm on the gas hard. It seems to pull harder from 3000-6500 than it did before. I can't say I noticed any lack of torque below 3000, but if I'm below 3000 rpm I'm not in a hurry anyway. It definitely made the car feel faster to me, but I've got no data other than the butt dyno.

The camber change seems to have made a slight difference too. It's tough to simulate autocross conditions without getting arrested, but it does seem to have better bite on turn in.

Next planned mods:

1. Contemplating the MP3 ECU reflash from the other board. This car is my daily transportation, so I'm a little hesitant to sign up till a few other people get it done & post their results. Seems like easy power, but frying my stock ECU will NOT produce good results with my significant other...
2. I'm getting a stock drive pulley from another board member, and I'll be playing with it to see how much meat can be machined away from the STOCK pulley. I've got access to a machine shop & I've got a CAD station, so we'll see if I can produce a lighter pulley for less personal cash than a "real" aluminum UDP.
3. Camber plates. The BG plates WILL be going on the car. I need to make an adapter to get the stock spring perch to correctly load the spherical bearing, and I've got the prototype drawn. In order to check the design, I need to pull a wheel & strut and reassemble it with the plate to check the fit.
4. Cut front springs. It LOOKS like the bottom coils of the front springs are not flattened, so I can cut portions of the coil off till I get the ride height I want. The camber plates will likely boost the front end up about 5mm more than it is now, but I want to lower the whole front end about 3/4" more. From looking at the spring rate calculations, if I remove 1 coil or less from the working length, I will pick up spring rate AND a lower ride. Seems like a win-win, but I need to make sure the spring stays long enough not to get loose at full extension.

 

[benjpi]

Just finished up the Philly SCCA Warminster event yesterday. Bad day on a great course: The course was 50-60 seconds at the lower end, but half the course was damn near flat out in second gear. I got 9th. The guys with the right combo's of brain & car were bouncing off the second gear limiters for 10-15 seconds on the back half! Some went to third, but it didn't always seem worth the effort, since the final corners were the usual slow-down variety.

The STS field was deep, and there was alot of car in it. I'm starting to realize just how committed some of these guys are: a Saturn SC with "STS WHRE" on his licence plate, a trailer-queen be-stickered early 90's Civic, another early 90's Civic that has a roof about 12" lower than mine, an instructor-driven subaru impreza. The guy who won STS ran a 50.9, which was faster than most of the A-stock guys. In fact, all of them! Just to further describe the STS field, the STX winner would have finished SIXTH in STS. Fast!

I left for the course later than I wanted, then the road to the course was closed by a downed telephone pole. While I blew 10 minutes looking for a detour, I got more & more agitated. Then I lost 5 more minutes wading through the minor waiver (12 year old pit crew). Once we finally got in, I got harrassed at registration (your late! Yes, I know. The road was closed. Well, it was announced on the radio all morning on KYW.), and harrassed at tech (well, I got here on time & I was towing a trailer. I didn't lose any time, just went a little further down the road & found a quick way to get here. Leave earlier next time.) Yes, yes, naughty me.

So, I blew all my course walk time. I got one quick jog through of the course, which wasn't enough. I normally try to make it through at least four times before I go off. Well, it showed: get to the line, all stressed out, and screw it up. Get half lost & go too slow on the front end, try to make time up, and end up spinning the car in the first slalom. S**T. At least i stayed on course. 69 seconds.

Second run wasn't much better. Still half lost, and managed to make a do-it-yourself slalom on the back half of the course, getting myself an off-course. 65 seconds.

On my third run I had what should have been my first run. Only had one big screw up related to the course layout, and got a 61. At this point I know the fast guys are in the 53's, and I'm feeling slow.

Last run, made some progress but not enough. Got down to 59.6. The car could have been in the 58's or 57's, but not me today.

The car is just not right. I watch the STS leaders, and their cars stick where mine doesn't. I know my technique needs work, but the car really moves around a lot. I watched the A-Stock guys, and even their cars rolled a fair bit. The really fast cars had almost no perceptible roll, and their cars transitioned like they were on rails. The body roll & understeer are just too much with the MSP springs. I think I'm going to grit my teeth, get a kidney belt, and buy some Ground Control coilovers.

I've got at least a two-week break before the next AX. I'd be a fool to run on Mother's day...

 

[Katya4me]

The STS field was deep, and there was alot of car in it. I'm starting to realize just how committed some of these guys are: a Saturn SC with "STS WHRE" on his licence plate, a trailer-queen be-stickered early 90's Civic, another early 90's Civic that has a roof about 12" lower than mine, an instructor-driven subaru impreza. The guy who won STS ran a 50.9, which was faster than most of the A-stock guys. In fact, all of them! Just to further describe the STS field, the STX winner would have finished SIXTH in STS. Fast!

The car is just not right. I watch the STS leaders, and their cars stick where mine doesn't. I know my technique needs work, but the car really moves around a lot. I watched the A-Stock guys, and even their cars rolled a fair bit. The really fast cars had almost no perceptible roll, and their cars transitioned like they were on rails. The body roll & understeer are just too much with the MSP springs. I think I'm going to grit my teeth, get a kidney belt, and buy some Ground Control coilovers.

I've got at least a two-week break before the next AX. I'd be a fool to run on Mother's day...

Yeah, Cy Lee, Adam Koback, Mike Louie and Corey Ridgick are all great STS drivers, and if Keefe Lee showed up too, he's good to watch as well.

Do you have a CG-Lock? It helps a lot w/ keeping you in place while driving. Oh, and we've got an event this Saturday.