calm down guys... why would you say an LS1 motor as opposed to the SR20 motor? SR20 is smaller....and its been done too for a drift car... so it shouldn't be too bad... the reason they made that RX-7 with the SR20DET in D1 was because they were sick of having to keep on repairing it after every drift event.... it needs meticulous maintanaince, there just isn't any way that you can deny it... i LOVE the motor, and the car, simply amazing, but you have to admit, its not a car that you can drive arround like any other... you have to have a specialized motorist to own one...
Sr20det-rx-7
- Thread starter DragonEye
- Start date
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- 2000 Protege DX
From what I remember the engine replacements usually were from buyers inexperienced with rotaries, and were unaware that the engine "uses oil" and that this is normal operation. Mazda however, went ahead and replaced the engines under warrantee anyway.....
Mazda had the Cooling and Fuel system issues in 3 model years of 3rd gen RX-7's...I call that multiple, as in "MORE THAN ONE"..It was also the ENTIRE RUN of FD's in the US, which tells me the recall wasnt discovered until AFTER at least 1995, so they were overheating the whole time before that.
"THE RADIATOR CAP PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE RELEASE PRESSURE IS SET TOO HIGH. THIS CAN CAUSE THE COOLANT TO REACH TEMPERATURES THAT EXCEED THE THERMAL DESIGN LIMITS OF SOME COMPONENTS OF THE COOLANT SYSTEM. SHOULD THIS OCCUR, ENGINE COOLANT CAN LEAK COLLECT ON TOP OF THE ENGINE. "
Over pressurization CAUSES overheating, GEEZ.....
I never said there was an ENGINE recall...GEEZ....
Since I am getting my words picked apart...the qustion I was posed was how many ROTARIES have you owned, not how many FD's
I had an FC with a 13b....
That sounds a little redundant.....
Mazda realized later that the rotary creates a LOT of heat, and turbo's create even MORE heat, thus the engines tend not to have a long lifespan....this is why the Renesis was NA, and even on a mazdaspeed version of the RX-8 there are no plans to turbocharge it....
Mazda had the Cooling and Fuel system issues in 3 model years of 3rd gen RX-7's...I call that multiple, as in "MORE THAN ONE"..It was also the ENTIRE RUN of FD's in the US, which tells me the recall wasnt discovered until AFTER at least 1995, so they were overheating the whole time before that.
"THE RADIATOR CAP PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE RELEASE PRESSURE IS SET TOO HIGH. THIS CAN CAUSE THE COOLANT TO REACH TEMPERATURES THAT EXCEED THE THERMAL DESIGN LIMITS OF SOME COMPONENTS OF THE COOLANT SYSTEM. SHOULD THIS OCCUR, ENGINE COOLANT CAN LEAK COLLECT ON TOP OF THE ENGINE. "
Over pressurization CAUSES overheating, GEEZ.....
I never said there was an ENGINE recall...GEEZ....
Since I am getting my words picked apart...the qustion I was posed was how many ROTARIES have you owned, not how many FD's
I had an FC with a 13b....
Signal 2 said:
That sounds a little redundant.....
Mazda realized later that the rotary creates a LOT of heat, and turbo's create even MORE heat, thus the engines tend not to have a long lifespan....this is why the Renesis was NA, and even on a mazdaspeed version of the RX-8 there are no plans to turbocharge it....
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spacemonkey
Member
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- Mazdaslow
well for a LS1 theres a direct kit...sub frame and everything. I dont know how direct a SR20 would be.
only becuase a LS1 is a popular swap. in reality its small and compact probally around the same size as a SR20. Pushrod engiens dont have complicated overhead valve train so the mass is actually lower then the SR. Giving it a better weight ditribution then a direct SR swap. and I assume they dont do it in Japan is because they cant really get LS1s there for cheap. it does make alot of torque so you can smoke your tires in a drift.
But you wont have the feel of a rotary. I said many times. you can put a LS7 in a BMW M5 and replace taht F1 inspired V10 but it wont feel the same. the LS7 is probally more powerful, lighter, cheaper and mroe reliable then a high reving BMW V10. But it wont feel the same. saying a engien makes power is a understatment...its all how it feels in the car. 2800 lbs cars dont need 500 lbs of torque to move it.
what SR20 FD in D1?
Apex has won the championship with its D1 FD. and its the same car and engine this year. RE Armeya and Greddy will be comming out with one too. infact I think it will be a RX8 because they are workign on a project together.
only becuase a LS1 is a popular swap. in reality its small and compact probally around the same size as a SR20. Pushrod engiens dont have complicated overhead valve train so the mass is actually lower then the SR. Giving it a better weight ditribution then a direct SR swap. and I assume they dont do it in Japan is because they cant really get LS1s there for cheap. it does make alot of torque so you can smoke your tires in a drift.
But you wont have the feel of a rotary. I said many times. you can put a LS7 in a BMW M5 and replace taht F1 inspired V10 but it wont feel the same. the LS7 is probally more powerful, lighter, cheaper and mroe reliable then a high reving BMW V10. But it wont feel the same. saying a engien makes power is a understatment...its all how it feels in the car. 2800 lbs cars dont need 500 lbs of torque to move it.
what SR20 FD in D1?
Apex has won the championship with its D1 FD. and its the same car and engine this year. RE Armeya and Greddy will be comming out with one too. infact I think it will be a RX8 because they are workign on a project together.
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spacemonkey
Member
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- Mazdaslow
TampaSport20 said:
thanks for the info. Very interesting.
and I suspect witht he amount of exhaust rotary engiens generate it doesnt really meet emissions if its turboed. Carb emissions wise you cant turbocharged mass production engiens that ar big and heavy with exhaust gas. but supercharging is completely okay. hence the supercharger for the Mazdaspeed RX8 (rumor). and why would will only find turbos on small 4 bangers and diesel engiens that are mass produce...extoics are different. Side ports were also designed for emissions so now it actually recylces unburnt fuel mixtures.
plus the side port design doesnt really suit a turbo that well.
I say the bad rep comes form not maintaining the car correctly. I will admit that it requires alot more TLC then your normal honda motor. my friend read up on every single thing before he bought his RX8. He even knew that burning 2 stroke oil was much better and idealy better but its too much to tell the average joe to replace 2 kinds of oil. most of the time they forget to even add oil once a month. some actually see that as a big hassel.
The rotary were of course nutorious for overheating and they generate alot of heat like said many times. but they were also very prone to flooding...cold starts needed to be very careful. they also adressed the oil lubercation issue. your apex seals have to be flexible enough to scrap the oil onto the walls of the housing. problem was taht oil would not neccesarly get to the end causing adnormal wear and tear. uneven spread.
Mazda engineers decided to do oil injection and grove the housing so that fuel and oil will be mixed in with air and oil will be attracted to these groves. and then the apex will continue to swipe oil onto the housing while its being burn in the combustion process.
The newer engines you can take them off and they looks completely new and actually chrome and shinny with abosolutely no wear on the housing. I will try to find a pic of one of the race cars after the season wa over. looked like a brand new engine.
alot of the new engine builders are trying to put alot of new designed in old 13B engines. Like in some places they try to replace the rotors with similar rotors in the RX8...where the sides slope down.
this comming from a guy who has been around alot of rotaries and hangout at the mazda dealership. I know more about rotaries then piston engines. I dont think they are bad unreliable engine. I think they have a s*** load of potential. I would not drive one everyday...not because of reliability. Its plenty reliable when I take care of it. its jsut that its not very gas friendly for daily driving. racewise and pushed to the limit its just as gas consuming as your average race car. 787B actually used less gas then what it was aloted back in lemans...it used less gas then its competators and a special motor oil was developed. Rotary 1! you defiantely have to read up and know what you are doing. if you feel like you can do this then stick with apiston engine. But for the love of god dont stick a piston engine in a rotary car. its just wrong. in my eyes...I absolutely hate mutts. lol
let me say this.
Ferrari powerband without the ferrari price.
Renisis redlines at 9-10K
Ferrari 360 modena GTC peaks at 8560 rpm and redlines like at 9K. no other engine besides the old S2000 F20C and Toyota 4age will give you that kind of power range.
What does Tsuchiya (drift king) like? his high reving 4age hachi
Toyota alantic, F1, indy car, champ car, Star mazda...all have high reving engines. its really a crazy feeling to bring your car past 7000 rpm.
high reving engines create alot of strain and abuse. But how they feel...aw pure sex! Like a F1 car or motorcycle. its worth the extra care to feel those revs!
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So we're going off of your recollection, not on documentation, including a large amount of engine replacements that you claim. And overpressurization threatened the components, seals etc. If allowed to rise to 13 psi before being relieved by the cap, the internal components could leak. AFAIK, there was never a rush of people coming in to the dealership with overheating cars. It was identified in a few. Caps replaced...end of store. Not unlike any number of other models. But if you have info to the contrary, please post.TampaSport20 said:
As I understand it, the RENSIS is NA to reduce costs and hence price, to make it fuel efficient and EPA/CARB compliant; and finally because due to the design of the exhaust ports, it doesn't benefit alot from turbocharging anyway, certainly not like the RE and REW.
I've owned two RX7s, going back to 1981. You do the math. And I'm not picking your words apart. Respectfully I'm suggesting your spreading misinformation in the form of unsubstantiated claims and should stop. The FD is far from perfect, and I'm all for giving anyone the bad news as well. Like cheap plastic on the 93 models that scratchs easily, the need to be anal about maintanance, that it doesn't make a good 'tuner' car, etc. But if you don't know the car...... (sssh)
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spacemonkey
Member
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- Mazdaslow
damns straight...my friend bought an extended warrenty for his RX8 and found out a brand new renisis is only lik $2000-$3000!
I think he suggested an LS1 because it's being done on a fairly large scale. From what I understand, the weight and overall dimensions of the LS1-6 are such that it can be located well back for good handling and obviously offers the power. Again, I'm not familiar with the SR20, so this is qualified, but here are some links:DragonEye said:
http://hinsonsupercars.com/
http://www.torquecentral.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=11
where in the mid-west are you? Im in downers grove near chicago. I was looking at getting an RX-8 a while back when shopping arround for cars.. but they just didn't do it for me... the power is so lacking... sure the handeling on them is amazing but it just needs more grunt... heck i raced an RX-8 from a roll with my nearly stock 1.8T and he had intake and exhaust and i pulled on him pretty bad...
I love high revving motors, but i need something with some power to it for course driving.
I have been looking at a few cars that i can toy with, but so far i have been looking alot at the RX-7, S2000, corolla GTS, my 240 (not the best with grip driving), and some other more expensive exotics (lotus, porsche, and mini cooper origional style)
I love high revving motors, but i need something with some power to it for course driving.
I have been looking at a few cars that i can toy with, but so far i have been looking alot at the RX-7, S2000, corolla GTS, my 240 (not the best with grip driving), and some other more expensive exotics (lotus, porsche, and mini cooper origional style)
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- 2000 Protege DX
Signal 2 said:
OMG what an ass !!!
First of all you again took words out of context...again overpressurisation creates overheating....
bottom line...my claims that the 13BREW not being relaible are NOT unsubstantiated
...I lurk on RX-7 club all the time and you can talk to just about ANY of the 3rd gen guys and you are considered LUCKY to make it beyond 100,000 miles on the original engine
If i'm wrong PROVE IT...show me some examples of 150,000 miles plus on original engines...if you can't, then STFU
OK. Enough of being civil. It was you that came on talking like the asshat you are, about a car you've never owned and obviously know jack about. But everytime your questioned you claim something was taken out of context? NOTHING was taken out of context. That's just a retard way of trying to escape the reality of being wrong.TampaSport20 said:
Yeah, 100k is probably about average but if you want an example of more, just read earlier in this thread numb nuts. I gave you one. But they were never a "nightmare for Mazda".
First you claim there were all sorts of engine replacements, had recalls for overheating and a bunch of other bulls***. I called you on it because it's bulls***. But instead of moving on to another forum where you can spread BS like peanut butter, you claim it was something you read....somewhere. I DID PROVE your full of it by giving links to all the recalls and TSBs. Yet you hang you hat on the radiator cap replacement as proving it was prone to overheating. Now you claim by lurking on another forum you know all about these cars. What gaul. I was driving a rotary when you were still wetting the bed. Wait, bad example, that's probably not saying much.
Still I didn't call you the pathetic liar that you are. But now gloves are off you immature douche. If the mods allow it...I'm just getting warmed up.
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- 2000 Protege DX
Signal 2 said:
'nuff said.
(loser)
btw...I dont think every post that someone writes needs a fact sheet to back it up....the article I read about engines being replaced was in COMPANY news...Ford Company News..I am not posting the entire article on a public website...I can be fired for that...It's not worth proving a point when you can do it for me..... (thumb)
btw..I AM a mod..slinging a curse word here or there is ok, but that last post was bit overboard
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- 2000 Protege DX
TampaSport20 said:
Does this REALLY say that Mazda was replacing tons of engines left and right ???
I'm sure you wish that were true.TampaSport20 said:
Of course you don't. That way you can continue to make s*** up and no one will recognize what a fool you really are.TAmpaSoort20 said:
Rrrrrright. Yeah not the entire article. That might take something "out of context".TampaSport20 said:
Then ban me. I don't claim to be a guru, but certainly one less experienced person will post in the Rotary section. No biggie for me. Look at my post count, I don't come here that often anyhow. And since there aren't that many, go ahead and check my previous posts. I think you'll find that, on the whole, I've been constructive, helpful and patient and don't generally go off on others. But if a forum is for enthusiasts for a particular make or model to discuss issues and share knowledge, a mod should be the last to be counter-productive.TampaSport20 said:
And remember who started with the name calling there Cupcake. Not sure, but I don't think I used even one profanity before that.
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Signal 2 said:
it means this...mazda had LOTS of expensive warranty repairs on 93-95 rx-7's, in some cases as much as replacing engines with VERY low mileage.
bear in mind a WARRANTY REPAIR, and a RECALL are 2 TOTALLY different things....
once again, my original statement was backed up by you.
the 13b-rew isnt very reliable...if you think 100,000 miles being average before a rebuild is considered reliable, you've got a LOT to learn....
I'm done with this thread now..I've wasted ENTIRELY too much time with it...
unsubscrizzle.
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Absolutely. 100k average is damn good for a 255 hp. (stock) 1.3 litre forced induction (twin turbo-charged) engine that puts out the performance it does. YRMV, but many have gotten ALOT more. It just doesn't make material for forum threads. And it's especially good when you factor in that it red-lines at 7.5k, weighs less than 250 lbs. (w/o Turbos) and rebuilding one costs 50% to 75% of what a similarly peforming piston engine would cost.TampaSport20 said:
As I've said before...the bad news is, it isn't a Honda. But the good news is....it isn't a Honda.
LOL, and I've got a lot to learn?
Bye bye now. (loser)TampaSport20 said:
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Your right DragonEye, and apologies for getting side-tracked.DragonEye said:
Regarding your original question, If your familiar with the SR20 and are comfortable with trying it, take some measurements. If you think it will work, go for it. I've seen stranger swaps done. Be aware that there are purists out there (believe it or not, I'm not one of them) that will harp a bit. But it's your car, your money and your time.
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