Speed3 Shorten shifter travel

[bbrich57]

Hmmm this seems to be a great mod. I need my shifts a bit stiffer and shorter.

Just not sure what my dad is going to say when I start pulling things out of the tranny, start drilling and replacing things!!! He doesn't agree to mod's on brand new cars!! (I bought this car from my hard earned money, maybe thats why hes worried?!)

Anyone here wanna talk to my dad?!!!!

Sure! I'll talk to him for you. I'm probably as old as, if not older than, he is.
I'll tell him that your kids have to make mistakes and learn on their own, not that I think this mod is a mistake mind you.
That he can't live your life for you.
All parents want to protect their kids, and the sooner he learns that no one can do that, the "less worried" he'll be, and the happier.
Ride the wave, be there when they screw up to help bail them out, but you'll catch more flies w/honey than w/vineger.

How's that?

 

[tsunami]

lol ^^^ nice bbrich...

very nice mod and intuitive thinking rotus... i like it a lot... i have a regular 3 and am running a mazdaspeed sts i think once it warms up i will look under my airbox and see what i can do about shortening the throws even more...

 

[MM3Canuck]

Ride the wave, be there when they screw up to help bail them out, but you'll catch more flies w/honey than w/vineger.

He mostly does just that!!!
He was all against putting a Greddy exhaust system on my brothers '99 Civic SIR. But after he heard the nice sound, he had a big smile on his face...lol...oh parents, just gotta love them!!!! (thumb)

 

[bbrich57]

He mostly does just that!!!
He was all against putting a Greddy exhaust system on my brothers '99 Civic SIR. But after he heard the nice sound, he had a big smile on his face...lol...oh parents, just gotta love them!!!! (thumb)

So, based on what you just said, I'd say do the mod. Don't tell him, or he'll worry about it, right? Then let him, better yet, ask him to drive your car and when he asks about the shifting, tell him what you did to "improve" it. He'll probably like the improvement. He sounds like he might be a bit of a motorhead... at least @ heart if not in reality.

 

[MM3Canuck]

Whats a motorhead?

Well, he used to mod his cars back in the days, hes pretty handy(he had his own company ((welding, blacksmith work with all sorts of metals etc)) before moving to canada) and knows quite a bit about cars.

I would do it, doesnt seem like a lot of work, BUT im afraid of it being to notchy.

 

[bbrich57]

Motorhead/gearhead is slang for someone that loves to "personalize" their cars, either in performance, appearence or both. The short version.

'Sounds to me like he is pretty handy. In that case why not ask him what he thinks about the mod and would he help you, should you decide to do it?

 

[Rotus8]

I would do it, doesnt seem like a lot of work, BUT im afraid of it being too notchy.

I have actually never understood the term "notchy", it doesn't really apply to my feelings on any shifter.

After the mod, you can certainly feel that the synchros are working. The shifting is very positive. The gate is well defined, but with easy transitions between the selectors. It takes a good shove to shift it, but it feels really good to me. It whines a bit in 1st, but that has nothing to do with the shifter. The only thing I have to get used to is the shift to 6th requres a bit of pressure to the right to keep it from dropping back to 4th, but practice will solve this.

My comparisons:
My Lotus has a highly modified 5-speed with straight cut gears, no synchros, dog selector gears, and very quick short-shifter mounted directly on the box. Shifting it is incredible - you put some pressure on the lever, touch the clutch, and Bang, you are in the next gear. Fastest shifting manual ever. The modified MS3 box has this kind of solid feel, but the synchros are clearly there and slowing things down; should get better with breaking in. The MS3 doesn't have that nice straight cut gear music though.

My friend's 80's Ferrari has this beautiful chrome plate in the shape of a comb that you have to navigate the shift lever through (are these notches?). Incredible PITA and would be one of the first things I would change if it was mine. If the Ferrari had anywhere as nice a shift as my modded MS3, it would be great.

How a shifter feels to you is highly subjective. This mod is reversable so if you don' t like it you can put it back at the cost of another hour's work.

 

[MM3Canuck]

Hmmm, I really want to change somehting about the way the shifts feel...want it to be more sporty. I will print this and show it to my dad, and ask him to help me. (gossip)

Is that mod bad for any parts? Will it wear down other parts faster? Gears won't slip out of "gears" right? Why wouldn't they shorten the shifts in the factory already?

I dont know much about all this, so I have many questions!!!

 

[MM3Canuck]

I have actually never understood the term "notchy", it doesn't really apply to my feelings on any shifter.

Maybe, just maybe what I am thinking of is:
1. Shifting feels like your hitting things, rough feeling~

Not sure if you know what I mean, then again, I have no idea what I am talking about!!!

Just thought it would feel too mechanical? Not sure how to describe it.

 

[Rotus8]

Maybe, just maybe what I am thinking of is:
1. Shifting feels like your hitting things, rough feeling~

Not sure if you know what I mean, then again, I have no idea what I am talking about!!!

Just thought it would feel too mechanical? Not sure how to describe it.

It is very difficult to put into words how a shifter feels. I admit I have the advantage that I have taken apart and rebuilt a number of transmissions, from FWD Saabs to full on race boxes. If you can imagine what is happening inside when you move the lever it helps you relate the feeling to the mechanical bits.

The big weight on the lever really helps smooth things out. Even so, you can feel the synchros start to engage, spin up the lay shaft, then slide on into the engagement spline. When you shorten the travel, each of these little feelings are more apparent and the effort to move the shift knob goes up. It is a simple matter of levers, you have less mechanical advantage when you reduce the throw.

Mazda designed the standard 3 for every-day drivers. They like to just move the lever with minimum force and don't care if it takes a little longer or requires a long travel. The MS3 is aimed at a more sporting driver so they shortened it up a bit, but still want the every-day driver to be happy. Some drivers prefer a quicker shift and shorter throw and that is where this mod comes in.

I am not trying to talk you into doing this mod - if it makes you nervous, don't do it. By all means, discuss it with your resident motorhead; he may like the idea or he might not; I suggest you follow his lead.

 

[bbrich57]

It is very difficult to put into words how a shifter feels. I admit I have the advantage that I have taken apart and rebuilt a number of transmissions, from FWD Saabs to full on race boxes. If you can imagine what is happening inside when you move the lever it helps you relate the feeling to the mechanical bits.

Saabs!! I LOVE SAABs...well, the older ones anyway. Since GM took them over... ?????
My best friend's family were into 93's (1) and 96's (???) for years when I was growing up. 'Musta' had about 8-10 of 'em during that time. It seemed everyone in the family (4 boys included) had one.
The trans was always the weak link in them too... specifically the too small for the job bearings.

The big weight on the lever really helps smooth things out. Even so, you can feel the synchros start to engage, spin up the lay shaft, then slide on into the engagement spline. When you shorten the travel, each of these little feelings are more apparent and the effort to move the shift knob goes up. It is a simple matter of levers, you have less mechanical advantage when you reduce the throw.

See? You do understand the term notchiness, in this instance. You just described it to a tee.

I am not trying to talk you into doing this mod - if it makes you nervous, don't do it. By all means, discuss it with your resident motorhead; he may like the idea or he might not; I suggest you follow his lead.

+1. I agree w/that. Excellent suggestion.
Also, what about relocating the ball somewhere inbetween where Rotus8 put it and where Mazda did? It would be a compromise...the shifts wouldn't be as short, but less notchy too. That too is a possiblity, IMO.

 

[Rotus8]

Saabs!! I LOVE SAABs...well, the older ones anyway. Since GM took them over... ?????
My best friend's family were into 93's (1) and 96's (???) for years when I was growing up. 'Musta' had about 8-10 of 'em during that time. It seemed everyone in the family (4 boys included) had one.
The trans was always the weak link in them too... specifically the too small for the job bearings.



See? You do understand the term notchiness, in this instance. You just described it to a tee.




+1. I agree w/that. Excellent suggestion.
Also, what about relocating the ball somewhere inbetween where Rotus8 put it and where Mazda did? It would be a compromise...the shifts wouldn't be as short, but less notchy too. That too is a possiblity, IMO.

I had a number of 96 and 97s, including a pretty capable autocrosser 97.

I guess if that is the definitions of "notchy", my se7en has none - no synchros!

About the location of the ball for the shifter mod, while you can put the ball back where it was originally, you probably only get one chance at the location of the new hole. If I was going to design an aftermarket part to do this, I would make the lever with a continuous adjustment mechanism so it could be tuned to taste. It can't be made much shorter than I did though because the two cables will interfere with eachother.

 

[bbrich57]

I had a number of 96 and 97s, including a pretty capable autocrosser 97.

I guess if that is the definitions of "notchy", my se7en has none - no synchros!

About the location of the ball for the shifter mod, while you can put the ball back where it was originally, you probably only get one chance at the location of the new hole. If I was going to design an aftermarket part to do this, I would make the lever with a continuous adjustment mechanism so it could be tuned to taste. It can't be made much shorter than I did though because the two cables will interfere with eachother.

Cool!! A SonnetIII, though I'd rather have a II for autoX. What year was yours? I don't know Sonnets well enough to tell. I'd guess a 71 or 72?
I still love the 3 and 4cyl. 96's though. Talk about an underrated car for Rally and Ice racing.

The internal detents (deep slots and/or strong springs @ the balls,) as well as the other linkage, can make a shifter feel notchy too, if they are not smooth.

What I was suggesting was to put the new hole in between the original and where you had put yours. The shifts will be longer than yours, still less than stock and give the driver more mechanical advantage @ the shift lever for a less notchy feel. A compromise, as I had said.
Would that do it, IYO?

 

[Rotus8]

Cool!! A SonnetIII, though I'd rather have a II for autoX. What year was yours? I don't know Sonnets well enough to tell. I'd guess a 71 or 72?
I still love the 3 and 4cyl. 96's though. Talk about an underrated car for Rally and Ice racing.

I had a '69 SonettII I used for autoX. Lowered, gutted, stealth 1700 motor, big Weber, welded up freewheel, and other stuff. 1400 pounds wet. I had a '70 SonettIII that was my DD for quite a while. Had a couple of parts cars too. Also had a couple of 96's as loaners/donors. 96's were dirt cheap with blown trannys and I got pretty good a fixing them. One of them got painted up hippy style at a party one day - it was a real sight! Unfortunately no pictures survive.

What I was suggesting was to put the new hole in between the original and where you had put yours. The shifts will be longer than yours, still less than stock and give the driver more mechanical advantage @ the shift lever for a less notchy feel. A compromise, as I had said.
Would that do it, IYO?

It's hard to say without trying, and trials can be expensive. Unfortunately the lever we are drilling holes in seems permantly attached to the main shifter shaft. I could imagine cutting the lever off, leaving a 1" stub. Then drilling that to mount a new fabricated lever which would then allow multiple versions for experimentation. Pretty drastic though.

The location I drilled the hole gives about a 20% change in the length of the lever. You can't do much more than that without interference problems. I suspect less than that isn't worth the trouble. You also might have problems getting too close to the original hole.

Reworking mechanisms someone else designed is a b****.

 

[MM3Canuck]

Hmmm...

Yeah I will print your instruction, pass em' by my dad, and see what he says!!!

Probably more of a summer/spring project.

What about Shifter bushings. They just stiffen the shifts? I might just do that first...see how it feels. Where is a good place to buy them?


As BBrich was quoting:

When you shorten the travel, each of these little feelings are more apparent and the effort to move the shift knob goes up.

That is exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Rotus8]

What about Shifter bushings. They just stiffen the shifts? I might just do that first...see how it feels. Where is a good place to buy them?

I got mine from TWM. http://www.twmperformance.com/bushingkits/index.htm

 

[MM3Canuck]

Thanks for the link.

And thanks alot for all the great info Rotus and Bbrich, much appreciated.

 

[bbrich57]

Good Luck, Man. I'm sure you'll let us know how it works out for you?

 

[MM3Canuck]

Of course!!! Not just gonna suck up all you guys information, tips and tricks.

I'll let you know! Even post pics!!


(friday)

 

[MM3Canuck]

Rotus, because of you I am looking into the more expensive stuff!!!!!

What about the TWM Performance Mazda 3 Short Shifter kit?

Bushings, plus short shifter. Ultimate solution?

Does the stock shift knob fit on the short shifter?

Sorry about the questions, just read the big BOLD note about NOT asking questions in here!! Sorry