Speed3 Cp-e Intake Has Arrived!!!!

[Speedy3]

Stretch, you should have event taken this further, as CPE has made the only intake, its MAFci that has not thrown a CEL and by far has produced the biggest gains on our NA 6S's!

The MS3 CAI is AEM too. AEM is on the filter cleaner bottles.

 

[stretch]

Stretch, you should have event taken this further, as CPE has made the only intake, its MAFci that has not thrown a CEL and by far has produced the biggest gains on our NA 6S's!

Well that's kind of what I was getting at- you'll see those types of best-in-class gains when CPE releases their piggyback. Mazdaspeed is inflating their dyno numbers by causing the car to run lean.

You probably remember the whole ordeal with the Mazda6 Injen intakes and CPE releasing an "Injen fix" version of their MAF customizer. While the Mazdaspeed intake doesn't appear to be as extreme, this is still a very analogous comparison. Using the Mazdaspeed intake throws off the MAF calibration which will screw things up down the road.

 

[nondual]

Doesn't the stock setup cause the car to run very rich anyway?

 

[jbiird317]

Doesn't the stock setup cause the car to run very rich anyway?

check all the soot on your tailpipe then ask that question again

 

[knowledge007]

check all the soot on your tailpipe then ask that question again

Lmao, well put. Seems that some people are just oblivious...hehe No offense.

 

[nondual]

check all the soot on your tailpipe then ask that question again

That's what I'm saying - so if the Mazdaspeed CAI leans things out, how is that really all that bad?

 

[knowledge007]

That's what I'm saying - so if the Mazdaspeed CAI leans things out, how is that really all that bad?

I haven't noticed a difference. Buy the looks of it I am still running as rich from the factory. Or maybe a minimal change but it looks the same to me... Or it could be that I am running just as hard or maybe even harder since I have had them both installed...(boom07)

 

[jbiird317]

That's what I'm saying - so if the Mazdaspeed CAI leans things out, how is that really all that bad?

i agree in principle, but i can also understand wanting to keep the performance that the rich mixture gives you. (this is why ppl with the mazdaspeed cai are also seeing slight gains in gas mileage)

 

[camrycev6]

Jsut a note to all...the ECU reflash rumor is not a rumor. I was talking to the Mazda techs who did my CAI yesterday, and they said that is was very important to reprogram the ECU after the CAI is installed. (Which coincidentally, is one of the reasons it too longer than they expected to install it. They were initially thinking about just the parts installation, not the ECU piece.) They said it was required to prevent possible engine damage due to an incorrect A/F mix.

So...if you are installing a MS CAI yourself...be warned, you are missing a critical piece of the install until you have reflashed the ECU with the correct software image to match the CAI.

I would assume the CP-E folks have already taken this into account on their setup.

 

[peanutsparts]

Jsut a note to all...the ECU reflash rumor is not a rumor. I was talking to the Mazda techs who did my CAI yesterday, and they said that is was very important to reprogram the ECU after the CAI is installed. (Which coincidentally, is one of the reasons it too longer than they expected to install it. They were initially thinking about just the parts installation, not the ECU piece.) They said it was required to prevent possible engine damage due to an incorrect A/F mix.

So...if you are installing a MS CAI yourself...be warned, you are missing a critical piece of the install until you have reflashed the ECU with the correct software image to match the CAI.

I would assume the CP-E folks have already taken this into account on their setup.

they did with various Dyno testing.

 

[camrycev6]

Got you.

 

[www.cp-e.com]

That's what I'm saying - so if the Mazdaspeed CAI leans things out, how is that really all that bad?

Yes, we would argue that it is very important. Leaning these cars out too much through the mass air meter is like taking your air filter off your car. It may add some power, but isn't in the engine's best interest.

The mass air meter outputs a voltage that corresponds to how much air the engine is ingesting. So a given voltage from the mass air meter will correspond to a particular mass airflow rate. If your fuel trims were zero, then this would mean that the incoming air exactly matches the voltage/airflow table for the mass air meter. This would also mean that the actual air/fuel ratio matches the expected air/fuel ratio. If the mixture is leaner than it expects, then it will add fuel, and the opposite is true if the engine is running rich. This is your fuel trim.

The problem is that there is a certain margin of error that the computer will tolerate before it steps in and cuts fuel or sets a CEL. As you swap out your stock parts for aftermarket parts, the air/fuel ratio changes, and the car tries to compensate for the changes by adding or removing fuel (ie. adjusting the fuel trims). The computer can compensate for some of the changes you make to the car, but if you lean it out too much you'll exceed the ECU's fuel trim correction window, which is bad. This is why we preach about properly machining the MAF housing. So unless the MS CAI is going to be your only performance modification, it may come back to bite you in the butt later as you add more parts.

I strongly suggest anyone who isn't familiar with fuel trims and engnie tuning do a quick google search to learn a little more about why this is so important. If you have anymore questions, please feel free to post them up.


Jordan

 

[Ferdball]

Jsut a note to all...the ECU reflash rumor is not a rumor. I was talking to the Mazda techs who did my CAI yesterday, and they said that is was very important to reprogram the ECU after the CAI is installed.

I think this is the first time that someone is mentioning an ECU reflash. An ECU reset is different from a reflash, right?

 

[www.cp-e.com]

I think this is the first time that someone is mentioning an ECU reflash. An ECU reset is different from a reflash, right?

Yes, the two are different functions. The ECU in the MS3 (really all fuel injected cars these days) is able to learn and adjust engine parameters based on environmental condititions. This learned information is stored in RAM which uses a battery to keep the information alive. If the RAM loses power, then the information is lost.

One parameter that is constantly being changed however is the the fuel trim, which resets (back to zero percent) whenever the battery is disconnected long enough for the long term memory to clear. Your car keeps track of past fuel trims and logs a running average. If you install a new performance part that changes your fuel trims, it isn't a bad idea to send them back to zero. That way, the computer is has no previous data to base its fuel trims on.

A reflash however makes changes to memory within the ECU that is not altered as you drive. This includes sensor look-up tables and engine parameters. Reflashing an ECU can be useful if you'd like to change the operating characteristics of your engine. Companies like Cobb spend time trying to figure out how to flash new data to a car's ECU because they can alter exciting things like boost, timing, and fuel delivery. The problem is that doing this is illegal according to the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, not to mention the fact that it's also becoming increasingly difficult to do.

Hope this helps!


Jordan

 

[Hypnotized]

So..After readinig all this it seems that this reflash can eventnually harm the car if you contiue to mod it. Or did I miss something?

 

[desperado-c]

Jsut a note to all...the ECU reflash rumor is not a rumor. I was talking to the Mazda techs who did my CAI yesterday, and they said that is was very important to reprogram the ECU after the CAI is installed. (Which coincidentally, is one of the reasons it too longer than they expected to install it. They were initially thinking about just the parts installation, not the ECU piece.) They said it was required to prevent possible engine damage due to an incorrect A/F mix.

So...if you are installing a MS CAI yourself...be warned, you are missing a critical piece of the install until you have reflashed the ECU with the correct software image to match the CAI.

I would assume the CP-E folks have already taken this into account on their setup.

Did they list any info about the reflash such as version no.?

 

[RonTonkinMazda]

there is no reflash for the MS CAI install thats right from mazda! there is a reflash for part of the p2006 code fix thats it so these people that are being told its for the MS CAI are being jerked around by your dealer.

 

[camrycev6]

there is no reflash for the MS CAI install thats right from mazda! there is a reflash for part of the p2006 code fix thats it so these people that are being told its for the MS CAI are being jerked around by your dealer.

Then I guess you are saying they flat out lied to me. I will ask these guys again. They made it very clear that the ECU was reflashed during the process and that it was necessary. As far as a version number, I did not ask and they did not mention it.

 

[RonTonkinMazda]

Then I guess you are saying they flat out lied to me. I will ask these guys again. They made it very clear that the ECU was reflashed during the process and that it was necessary. As far as a version number, I did not ask and they did not mention it.

If you can find out and if they still say it is for the CAI let me know the dealership and person so i can find out why they think this.

 

[camrycev6]

I just got off the phone with Mazda. I was lied too. When I asked why, it was basically because the install took longer than they thought so they needed to tell me something. The service manager apologized and offered me 10% off next time I was in and a free tank of gas.

Sorry for the confusion folks. I was just repeating what I was told by the "experts."