Sluggish frequent pedal/throttle response. Need suggestions

[GFrosty]

The pedal/throttle response on my 2016.5 CX-5 GT AWD is frequently sluggish. Need everyone's expertise and experience with identifying all the parts, sensors and whatnot that might come into play, with this issue.

It doesn't happen every acceleration. It doesn't happen in every gear. But it almost always seems to be in a situation where the load is suitably "light to middling" and the RPMs are in the ~1400-1800 range. The car frequently doesn't seem to sense that the load's rising, that my accelerator pedal is being depressed additionally.

I've been toying with the degree and firmness of pressing the accelerator pedal. And while it does seem to be problematic less frequently when I press hard and far on the pedal, IMO it shouldn't be so hesitant and sluggish in responding to increasing loads/pedal.

Am hopeful it's simply one or more sensors and/or parts that are causing this. Need help identifying every last component in the vehicle that could be part of this sluggishness, as I'm unaware of all them.

List:

1. Throttle Body, containing the throttle position sensor -- have properly cleaned the TB and the sensor's contacts, twice in the past year; but haven't tested the signals.
2. Accelerator Pedal assembly (with the included sensors) -- haven't touched this, yet, nor tested the signals.
3. Anything else???

I would prefer that it's some sensor or cleaning that would rectify. Am open to a tuning of the vehicle's performance, though I don't have any performance extras on the car that would otherwise justify such a thing. I just want the hesitant, sluggish response (for dropping a gear when load and pedal angle dictate) to be more brisk and responsive. Like all the test-driven CX-5 vehicles were, when I took them each through their paces.

 

[Lazy2.5]

Is this something new that you're experiencing?

Sounds like the way the throttle is tuned from the factory to me, not an issue. It's tuned this way to save gas and reduce emissions by essentially ignoring or dumbing down your request for additional throttle when conditions for said throttle increase are not optimal.

etc. let's say you're going 70km/h in 5th gear at 1500rpm. you push the throttle harder. you may notice that the throttle doesn't really respond much. this is normal. the ecu is limiting the opening of the plate in your throttle body because it doesn't make sense to start loading up the engine at 1500rpm due to lugging.

But... the AT is tuned so stubborn, and will refuse to drop down to 4th gear at a throttle position which suggests that it's probably best to.

So... simply use manual mode, and drop to fourth gear, which would bring you to about 2000rpm. You should have more "freedom" now to apply additional throttle as needed, with the response you desire.

 

[GFrosty]

Is this something new that you're experiencing?

I purchased this vehicle pre-owned, about five years back. Generally speaking, to me it has always felt sluggish or hesitant in deciding to drop down a gear when the loads and/or accelerator pedal depression would (IMO) justify a drop down. Instead, it remains in the taller gear far, far longer than I would expect. Most of the time.

It's almost as though the car has been configured to prioritize fuel economy above everything else, at all times and under all loads. That is, unless I mash the accelerator pedal. Even in "Sport" mode it requires a mashing or near-mashing of the pedal in order to get it to kick down a gear.

So... simply use manual mode, and drop to fourth gear, which would bring you to about 2000rpm. You should have more "freedom" now to apply additional throttle as needed, with the response you desire.

Sure, I often use manual mode, when I feel the transmission's being particularly laggy at the moment. But on an "automatic" transmission, to me that seems weak. I would think that it would be far more responsive to accelerator pedal angle than it is.

Which is why I asked the questions. Hoping to hear from people what parts and sensors, specifically, are involved in all of this, such that I can do a bit of further digging.

Have had a 2012 Mazda 3 2.5L with A/T. And that vehicle was downright responsive when moving the accelerator pedal even a little bit. Almost never required mashing the pedal in order to get it to wake up and drop to a lower gear. Wasn't excessive, but it was "how it should be", at least IMO. This partucular CX-5 hasn't ever been.

 

[Yo'sDad]

23 CX5 Carbon. Was very annoyed with the delay in the throttle response especially when the light turns green. I installed a 'Pedal Commander', (City 0) is my current fave setting. Very easy to install. You can change the settings directly on the wired module or download an app that does the same. Since I wanted to hide the module I use the app. This totally eliminated the throttle delay and made it drive like I feel should be normal. Good luck.

 

[N7turbo]

This has been my experience in all the NA CX-5's I've had. The transmission is just too reluctant to downshift and what you experience is "lugging" the engine. Sport mode would be the only way around it without an additional device or tune.

 

[sm1ke]

Assuming your air filter isn't clogged/leaking and there are no other components that might affect performance (fouled/old spark plugs, bad gas, etc), I would try a transmission relearn.

Here's a copy/paste of the steps from this post. Please note, this works for 2nd gen CX-5s and 2nd gen CX-9s - I'm not sure if it'll work for the 1st gen CX-5, but it's worth trying.

1. Make sure car is up to normal operating temperature before starting - if it is cold, drive it around until it's up to temperature

2. With car idling in Park, place foot firmly on the brake pedal and keep it there for the entire process - do not let up on it for the entire time

3. Put the car into neutral

4. Turn off the Car

5. Shift the car into Manual (-) and hold it there for 5 seconds

6. After 5 seconds, keep the car in Manual (-) and press the start engine button (car will not start)

7. Put the car into neutral

8. Press the start engine button (it will start this time)

9. Move the shifter to Manual (+) and hold it there for five seconds

10. Move the shifter to Manual (-) and hold it there for five seconds

11. The engine idle should increase and you'll see the gear display show "M". You can then release the shifter but leave it in manual mode

12. Once the idle goes back to normal, the gear display should show "M1". Once this happens, shift the car to park and shut off the engine.

You've successfully reset the transmission!

And here's a link to the video these steps were pulled from:

 

[GFrosty]

Assuming your air filter isn't clogged/leaking and there are no other components that might affect performance (fouled/old spark plugs, bad gas, etc), I would try a transmission relearn.

Have evaluated and corrected all of those. They all were my first go-to checks.

• Vehicle has 135Kmi+, now.
• @ 125Kmi, new plugs -- NGK Ruthenium, properly gapped. Prior plugs were still in great condition, not fouled, about half-way through their lives.
• @ 124Kmi, new ignition coils -- OEM Mazda.
• Air filter -- frequently changed, to keep ahead of the curve.
• Transmission re-learn procedure -- a couple of times.

It's a problem which hasn't changed much in the past 50Kmi. Plugs and coils in good shape. Not bad gas (though I've had one tank of such, in the past 5yrs). I keep the air filter fresh. Have done the transmission relearn a couple of times.

Just has a characteristic sluggish tip-in, in terms of accepting that I want to go more-briskly than the car's doing currently. "Sport" mode cures that, as does manually shifting.

I've been imagining that, perhaps, the accelerator pedal's sensor (or a related sensor) isn't correctly communicating the pedal's angle. Or perhaps the throttle position sensor and/or throttle body itself isn't as responsive as an as-new unit. Uncertain if either of those have a great material impact on accelerator pedal tip-in responsiveness.

 

[dunhillmc]

Floor it through the kickdown switch a few times. If you baby it too much, the programing picks up bad acceleration habits

 

[GFrosty]

Floor it through the kickdown switch a few times. If you baby it too much, the programing picks up bad acceleration habits

I do. Often, several times weekly. I was hopeful doing such might "wake-up" the system, whatever it is (kickdown switch or otherwise) that's getting in the way. No change.

If there are no other parts or sensors in the vehicle that impact the condition, none that can really be changed, it's looking as though there are only two alternatives: something like "Pedal Commander"; or, a tuning service that can correct how sensitive the performance is to loads and acc.pedal angle.

 

[sm1ke]

I do. Often, several times weekly. I was hopeful doing such might "wake-up" the system, whatever it is (kickdown switch or otherwise) that's getting in the way. No change.

If there are no other parts or sensors in the vehicle that impact the condition, none that can really be changed, it's looking as though there are only two alternatives: something like "Pedal Commander"; or, a tuning service that can correct how sensitive the performance is to loads and acc.pedal angle.

It would do the trick, but it's really no different than pressing the pedal further as you accelerate. Having owned a Sprint Booster for nearly 7 years, I do prefer to have it installed vs. "stock", but if you can get used to pressing the pedal further, it's the same thing.

A tune might be a better bang for buck.

 

[GFrosty]

It would do the trick, but it's really no different than pressing the pedal further as you accelerate. Having owned a Sprint Booster for nearly 7 years, I do prefer to have it installed vs. "stock", but if you can get used to pressing the pedal further, it's the same thing.

Well, in my case it most often requires a significant tip-in of the pedal, before the car seems to realize I'm getting insistent. (Significantly greater angle of pedal change than any other vehicle with A/T I've ever owned, including a 2012 Mazda 3 2.5L. That Mazda 3 had fabulous responsiveness, with the throttle. Always seemed to be listening, almost anticipating, and would nearly always seem to be correctly judging when to drop to a lower gear in order to aid acceleration. And it didn't require "mashing" ever, though I could do that if I chose.)

Now and again, with minor-to-moderate pedal change, it'll drop a gear and begin accelerating; but that's rare. Instead, it almost always requires fully mashing the throttle to the floorboard, before it'll drop a gear.

Which is why I suspected some sensor (in the pedal or the engine bay) going sideways or otherwise contributing to the sluggish responsiveness.

I suspect you're correct, that a tuning might well be the best bang for buck in my case.

 

[stickerbush]

Which is why I suspected some sensor (in the pedal or the engine bay) going sideways or otherwise contributing to the sluggish responsiveness.

You could use a software tool like Forscan to monitor key data PIDs when you press the accelerator and verify if sensors are operating within factory specs.

 

[Lazy2.5]

The ECU monitors throttle position, fuel, air quality, wheel speed, gear etc. to decide how much to actually open the throttle. the ECU will rarely command the plate to open as much as requested by the driver, because its priority is to do well on heavily regulated emissions/fuel economy requirements and will hold excessively low gears to death as a result. While i agree that the tuning is too conservative, you would need to figure out how to custom re-tune the transmission, not the engine to get the response you are looking for. Mashing the throttle and ordering downshifts inherently go against the drivetrains fundamental tuning process and cannot be changed no matter how often you reset the transmission or request more throttle. The problem is with your expectations simply not aligning with the fundamental tuning strategy of the vehicle, which is to save fuel and keep emissions as low as possible. As mentioned, the simplest way to bypass this is to use manual mode. Even if you're in drive mode, I'm sure you know that you can flap the paddle when you need a downshift and don't want to be left guessing, exactly how much throttle you must apply to get it.

FWIW, a 91 octane tune is worth it. It brings the peak torque down lower in the rev range and pulls harder, even saves you some fuel while being faster, but it does nothing to change the transmissions conservative behavior.

 

[Lazy2.5]

I would try a transmission relearn.

Here's a copy/paste of the steps from this post. Please note, this works for 2nd gen CX-5s and 2nd gen CX-9s - I'm not sure if it'll work for the 1st gen CX-5, but it's worth trying.

It works for any Skyactiv. I've done it on my first gen Skyactiv Mazda 6 a few times.

Even with over 300,000KM on the odometer, if someone reset the transmission without telling me, I don't think I would have ever noticed. The improvement is slight and temporary. Even if you drive foot to the floor constantly, the transmission is still primarily following a factory tune.

And here's a link to the video these steps were pulled from:

 

[wlong01]

Not sure if this was mentioned but how does it respond in Sport Mode?

 

[SBMongoos]

I've seen some interesting things like this along with some odd shifting on occasion. In regards to throttle I thought there was a way to reset the computer as it has learned driving habits. This car was previously owned. Maybe clear this so it can learn your driving and it will adapt better. I'm in a metro area and generally take off easy when the light turns green. Once in a while I may punch it. If I've done this enough I've seen a difference in acceleration where it will pick up quicker. Once I go back to a more common pattern of taking off more easy, initially, I will see it pick up quick but then eventually it seems to throttle back down slower when I continue to drive more slower off the line at a green light.

I've seen some strangeness with the transmission shifting. Generally it works fine. But if I have to brake quickly or the Smart Brake System kicks in because someone in the parking lot cut me off, I've then seen some weird shifting for a while that seems to get ironed out after I go back to my usual driving. I understand there is a way to reset this is well. I don't have the details but they are in the Mazda 247 forum.

Hopefully this all makes sense.

 

[GFrosty]

Mashing the throttle and ordering downshifts inherently go against the drivetrains fundamental tuning process and cannot be changed no matter how often you reset the transmission or request more throttle. The problem is with your expectations simply not aligning with the fundamental tuning strategy of the vehicle, which is to save fuel and keep emissions as low as possible.

I fully agree, with the tuning of the CX-5 being out-of-line with normal and customary expectations of responsiveness in vehicles.

As I noted, a similar-vintage Mazda 3 2.5L A/T vehicle (though not SkyActiv) was highly responsive, highly accommodating with even modest change in the accelerator pedal's angle. The 2016 CX-5 certainly isn't that.

Yet, in addition to whatever programming has been done by Mazda on this vehicle, there are the various sensors and devices that can impede such responsiveness. Which is what the opening questions were about, people's knowledge of what the full list of such parts happen to be on the CX0-5. Identifying the full list, whatever that list is, was really my purpose.

I appreciate everyone's remarks about what can be done, on the assumption the various parts/sensors I have are functioning properly. Seems everybody's understanding and experience is that Mazda made this an economy-minded setup (engine+transm).

My "problem" with expectations centers on the fact of my particular experience with the Mazda 3 2.5L. Extremely responsive, a similar 2.5L, though not SkyActiv. Clearly, tuned quite differently from the factory, as opposed to this CX-5's factory tune.

Might well look into an after-market tuning service. DRTuned, perhaps, or another similar. Haven't yet researched, though I might well begin doing so.

 

[GFrosty]

Not sure if this was mentioned but how does it respond in Sport Mode?

Am often in "Sport" mode, when wanting to get away from the sluggishness of shifting. It's certainly zippy. Accelerates harder, of course, as the valve profiles (and whichever other settings) are mapped differently under "Sport" mode. Clearly has more oomph, in each gear.

But with respect to "willingness" to drop to a lower gear if I'm depressing the accelerator pedal more -- often, even usually, it is noticeably more responsive than in non-Sport mode. (Aside from the power bump.) Sometimes, however, it's still seemingly unjustifiably hesitant to down-shift. Yet, it still isn't anywhere near as responsive to the accelerator pedal as my prior Mazda 3, even when at its best.

Anyway. I might take a look at the pedal assembly, checking whether it's producing in-spec signals, and take a look at the signals outputs (angles, degree depression of pedal, throttle position) to ensure the equipment doesn't have an obvious error in some component. Eventually, likely it'll take a retuning in order to correct. I'd prefer to not go around in "Sport" mode all day, but I might do that intead of a retuning. It'll correct much of the down-shifting hesitancy.

 

[stickerbush]

It would be interesting to go to a Mazda dealer and test drive a new CX5 to compare to your 2016 model.

 

[sm1ke]

Fuel injectors might be something to consider as well, though it's unlikely that they would need to be replaced or serviced if you've always used "top tier" fuel. Additionally if the fuel injectors were operating out of spec, they would probably throw codes.