Signs of bad turbo?

[The_big_dill]

Hey all,

I may be picking up a turbo today and needed some advise beyond checking shaft play, cracks etc.

A picture shows that the core of the turbo which the shaft goes through looks like its completely black. I know that these area can get covered in soot, but how bad could it be?

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Phil.

 

[Brian_K]

a little shaft play is normal, especially on a bb turbo. I'd keep a look out for any oil on the compressor housing, that usually means the seals are bad. The black carbon build up is normal on the exhaust side, but if it seems really thick or caked on that might mean the turbine side seal is bad as well.

 

[The_big_dill]

Here it is. The guy told me the engine of a car he was fixing had a hole in the side and the engine was replaced with a turbo.

I bet this is why the engine was replaced.

Somebody being rough with the removal?

Welded actuator?

 

[The_big_dill]

Still working at removing the S-Pipe off the turbo, one of the studs broke when removing a nut and am having trouble getting at the one stud that you can't get a socket on...

Any suggestions?

 

[Brian_K]

Looks like the seal on the exhaust side is starting to go bad causing it to leak/burn.

I usually use a open ended wrench to get to that bolt. I'd soak all the bolts in PB blaster for a night or two. If that doesn't work I'd try torching it to see if the nut will break loose

 

[The_big_dill]

Looks like the seal on the exhaust side is starting to go bad causing it to leak/burn.

I usually use a open ended wrench to get to that bolt. I'd soak all the bolts in PB blaster for a night or two. If that doesn't work I'd try torching it to see if the nut will break loose

Thanks for your replies Brain, I really appreciate it. For what i picked it up, it was a gamble.

In any case, When you say the exhaust seal, is it internal to the CHRA or is it just the seal between with the turbine (exhaust) housing and the CHRA core? If its the later, couldn't I just replace that gasket myself?

I have read that these don't have rebuild kits, but what i read was from a while back, I have seen videos of people rebuilding the CHRA BB turbos.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BALL-BEARIN...Parts_Accessories&hash=item19df8ec247&vxp=mtr

Have you ever heard of these?

 

[Brian_K]

The exhaust seal is inside the CHRA. As far as I know the stock msp gt255r is not rebuildable, which is why I ended up going with a journal bearing t25 the second time i turbocharged my car lol.

that bb rebuild kit is new to me, but after just watching a few videos I dont see why it wouldn't work. Just make sure to mark your compressor wheel, turbine shaft, and nut so you can keep the chra balanced when you put it back together.

 

[The_big_dill]

The exhaust seal is inside the CHRA. As far as I know the stock msp gt255r is not rebuildable, which is why I ended up going with a journal bearing t25 the second time i turbocharged my car lol.

that bb rebuild kit is new to me, but after just watching a few videos I dont see why it wouldn't work. Just make sure to mark your compressor wheel, turbine shaft, and nut so you can keep the chra balanced when you put it back together.

Did you just get the internal components for the journal bearing and reuse the housings and everything? How much did it all run you?

 

[Brian_K]

I paid $80 for the turbo and $40 for the rebuild kit. I haven't had any problems so far and i've put over 10k miles on it

 

[The_big_dill]

I paid $80 for the turbo and $40 for the rebuild kit. I haven't had any problems so far and i've put over 10k miles on it

Will any T25 work?

Any chance I can salvage components from this turbo and make a journal bearing turbo out of it?

Looks like I stripped the head of the hard to reach nut on the s-pipe and I don't have a 12mm circle wrench, time to whip out the vice grips.

Also, I am trying to remove the bolts on the back of the exhaust side and I don't have a wrench that fits... seems to be between 11mm and 12mm...

 

[Brian_K]

t25's vary as far as compressor and exhaust housings. The most common is the t25 from the nissan sr20 which bolts up directly with the msp manifold and downpipe after rotating the housings. If you're looking into going with a journal bearing turbo you can swap both housings from the msp bb t25 on to the sr20 one to save you a bit of work.

try a standard sized wrench. I remember I kept trying to use a 13mm on the downpipe nuts and it kept slipping off. And then I realized the nuts were 1/2" not 13mm lol

 

[The_big_dill]

t25's vary as far as compressor and exhaust housings. The most common is the t25 from the nissan sr20 which bolts up directly with the msp manifold and downpipe after rotating the housings. If you're looking into going with a journal bearing turbo you can swap both housings from the msp bb t25 on to the sr20 one to save you a bit of work.

try a standard sized wrench. I remember I kept trying to use a 13mm on the downpipe nuts and it kept slipping off. And then I realized the nuts were 1/2" not 13mm lol

That is great information Brian, A+!

If its a half inch, then my 1/2" is not really a 1/2" cause it slips as well...

Technically then, I can just get a SR20 t25 CHRA (Journal bearing) and just bolt my housings on it. On the other hand, I can fix my BB turbo for $165 shipped.

I will consider my options.

Last questions, I have been looking for the hardware and am able to find people selling the studs and nuts but at higher than expected prices... Do you know where I can get dimensions on all the studs, nuts, etc.? I already know that most are M8 studs, the Turbo studs are M8x35mm with 1.25 pitch, but the 2 threaded sections are of different length, which I cannot find.

 

[Brian_K]

glad i could help!
lol the previous owner probably just used an off-sized nut.

yes since both the compressor and turbine wheels are of the same dimensions that would definitely be an option. But I'd take a look into replacing the bearings first since a bb turbo is better than a journal bearing.

take a look at ATPTurbo, it looks like they have the standard stud as well as a longer version. If you can't find it there i'd check Jegs, summit, or ebay.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=tp&Category_Code=FST

 

[Preferio]

Kids are bad, automotive components fail....

 

[The_big_dill]

So after fighting with the rusty components, I am left with 1 sheared stud, 1 sheared bolt and an S-Pipe thats not coming off cause of that hard to reach nut... I will have to bring out the cutting tools next time.

In any case, I will be replacing the piston rings and seals on the turbo.

Should I replace the banjo bolts for the coolant lines? Are the coolant lines expensive, do I have alternatives? How about the oil lines?

 

[hornsfan10609]

Coolant lines you can use any rubber hose, just use the metal lines on the turbo. Banjo bolts can be reused, honestly the washers can too although most people recommend replacing them. (personally I reuse them all the time and they don't leak) Oil feed line runs to a Tee at the oil pressure fitting, will need to source one from an MSP or make a new feed line. You can run the coolant lines to the nipples for the TB coolant lines. Oil return will be tricky, have to weld in a fitting into the upper oil pan and fab a custom drain line or find one from an MSP.

 

[The_big_dill]

Coolant lines you can use any rubber hose, just use the metal lines on the turbo.

?? Having a hard time making sense of this Do you mean use the rusty metal pipes that use the banjo bolt with the turbo and branch off from the TB supply?

Also, do you mean I can just buy a brass T and put it inline with the pressure switch near the oil filter?

For the drain, should I go into the oil pan or into the windage tray, I heard its recommended to go in the windage tray.

I see a bunch of AN fittings and hose sizes for sale with different restrictors at ATP turbo, which combination should I go with?

 

[hornsfan10609]

Yes the metal lines on the turbo you would use and connect rubber hoses to them that run to the nipples on the water lines on the block that run to the throttle body. That's how most people run the water lines on the NA cars. Oil drain should go in the windage tray, you would need to drill, tap and weld a fitting in and fabricate a line to mate to it or get an MSP windage tray and use a stock style oil return. You may be able to find a T for the oil feed line, dealership may have it but no guarantees on that. The stock setup has a T that threads in where the stock oil pressure switch is, the switch threads into the T and the oil feed line screws into the open spot on the T. Shouldn't need an oil restrictor if you use the stock oil feed line.

 

[The_big_dill]

What now? These 2 bolts can't come out until I pull off the turbine housing.

How am I suppose to take the turbine housing off? its practically glued on...

 

[Brian_K]

lol i ran into the same problem with the last turbo i bought. You can either take a grinder and cut the bolts off and then use an extractor to remove them or you can take some pb blaster, soak where the chra meets the exhaust housing and then take a rubber mallet and start hammering away. Just don't hit it too hard or you might damage the turbine wheel when the housing finally decides to separate.