Should I get an IMac or go for a PC

[APEXistud]

Not that many of you really care (no one has been answering my posts lately), but I thought I'd ask anyway. I went to Micro Center yesterday while waiting for my girlfriend to finish her summer class and I was checking out the new Imac's and all th other PC's available. I've been checking the Imac out for a while now, difference now is that I'm actually in the market for my own computer or laptop. My uses for a computer are mainly multimedia tasks. Internet, Music, eventually make videos. I'll also be performing some administrative tasks like making schedules for my employees, writing reviews, etc. since I got my promotion to store manager. So Excel, Word, are of course a must.

My question for all you PC owners now is....How are your PC's running? Do you have any problems like system crashing, applications closing due to software conflicts? Stuff like that. I've been using a G3 Tower for a while now and the only problem I've run into was nothing major (printer ran out of ink to fast) . So, knowing that Apples are reliable, I wouldn't mind sticking with them. I had a Sony VAIO, but that thing had serious problems and would always crash, so did my HP back in the day. So PC users please enlighten me.

As of right now, I'm leaning more towards either an IMAC, G4 Powerbook, or an IBook. Oh yeah, another reason I'm leaning more towards Apple is because Subywan's dad has been working for Apple over 15 years. So, he gets very generous discounts from time to time on certain products.

 

[fastdrvr23]

Ehhh... I am not a "Mac" user, but I figured I would throw my .02 cents in anyways. I have a Dell 4300 series that bought in Jan. of this year. It has not given me any trouble at all. I run a variety of junk for work like Visual Studio.Net and all sorts of development stuff. I am running XP Pro on it, and it is working great. I wish I knew what to say about the macs, but I really don't know. Good luck either way!!!

 

[ZoomZoomH]

my $3.50...

first of all, Micro Center is great! especially when they have various sales each month, I got a mini USB hub for $10!!!! and a USB cable for 99 cents!!!

oh, back to your question. With the introduction of Windows XP, the overall reliability of a PC system took a major step forward. PC hardware was never the problem, it has always been the crappy Microslave DOS/Windows 9x OSs on top of it that's killing the reliability of PCs. I have had my OLD POS AMD K6-2 system up and running on XP for 3 WEEKS NONSTOP without ANY reboot. That would've been almost impossible to pull off on the old Windows 9x crap. I am going to go a step further, and claim that with the release of Windows XP, the PC platform is now just as stable as the Mac.

So I say, buy a PC laptop (installed with Windows XP of course), and save a few hundred bucks that you would've spent if you bought an iBook instead.

 

[Kooldino]

Should you get a swift kick in the ribs, or go for a PC

Go with the PC. All the way. Just get a GOOD one. Dells are solid, but are overrated and only use Intel CPUs ($$$). If you really want, I can build you one for $100 over my cost.

Take it from me, for the computer nerd I am. Macs are getting better, but PC's are still where it's at.

I can even build one out of legos if you prefer, hehe...
http://forum.protegemp3.com/vbb225/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5972

But seriously, a good PC is far superior to a MAC. Both in hardware, OS, and software. Let's not forget price, etc as well. Trust me.

 

[20ESGUY]

I gotta disagree on the XP thing....XP's definitly better than the old win 9X operating systems but the problem now is software compaiblity. some programs will not run properly in the XP envrioment...run into that alot lately...even switching to a windows 9x running envroment which XP allows you to do. If you plan to do alot with multimedia then i'd say go with a Mac..you can't beat em for graphics and video producing. As for the dell's im a little biased we all had to buy laptops for the college i went to and most of us bought the dells through the school....crappy and i mean crappy computers...customer support is awsome but the hardware/software combo sux. Hp's are good...havent had probs with those yet and so are compaqs and gateways.

 

[Kooldino]

Re: my $3.50...

oh, back to your question. With the introduction of Windows XP, the overall reliability of a PC system took a major step forward. PC hardware was never the problem, it has always been the crappy Microslave DOS/Windows 9x OSs on top of it that's killing the reliability of PCs. I have had my OLD POS AMD K6-2 system up and running on XP for 3 WEEKS NONSTOP without ANY reboot. That would've been almost impossible to pull off on the old Windows 9x crap. I am going to go a step further, and claim that with the release of Windows XP, the PC platform is now just as stable as the Mac.

So I say, buy a PC laptop (installed with Windows XP of course), and save a few hundred bucks that you would've spent if you bought an iBook instead.

Your overall message is good, BUT...
1-Windows NT4 made PCs big time stable...and 2000 made them stable and COMPATIBLE with things. XP is just a pretty version of 2000.

2-PC Hardware is still often the problem. motherboard chipsets, etc etc, can still be buggy. And theres tons of crap hardware out there. And even if the hardware is good, there are some even worse (cough...ATi) drivers out there.

3-Macs really aren't THAT stable. OSX is on a newer system, but OS 7,8, and 9 crash more than your average PC. And some of it's incapabilites are laughable.

 

[Kooldino]

I gotta disagree on the XP thing....XP's definitly better than the old win 9X operating systems but the problem now is software compaiblity. some programs will not run properly in the XP envrioment...run into that alot lately...even switching to a windows 9x running envroment which XP allows you to do. If you plan to do alot with multimedia then i'd say go with a Mac..you can't beat em for graphics and video producing. As for the dell's im a little biased we all had to buy laptops for the college i went to and most of us bought the dells through the school....crappy and i mean crappy computers...customer support is awsome but the hardware/software combo sux. Hp's are good...havent had probs with those yet and so are compaqs and gateways.

HAHAHAHAHA. Compaq laptops are crap. Trust me, I have one.

And you run into incompatibilites with your programs and XP because the programs you're running are probably 4 years old. Get new stuff man. XP is pretty compatible with older stuff.

And why do people think that multimedia is better on a Mac? I think ONE person started this terrible, terrible rumor, and then everyone else started spreading the disease of misinformation. Macs are inferior for multimedia, hands down. I hate to burst your bubble man, but you really don't know what you're talking about.

About Dells: I wouldn't say they SUCKED, their laptops have a lot of advanteages over the competition, but they ARE overrated...I'll say that.

 

[20ESGUY]

As for the compaq's i wasn't talking about the laptops....personally i dont like laptops at all, just personal preference there. As for my software it's actually pretty much up to date...and most of the problems i've encountered with XP haven't been with my personal computer they've been with other peoples computers that have bought brand new software to use and it won't work...doesn't matter how hard you try...reinstallation actually trading the media in and getting a new set to reinstall, just doesn't cut it. the dell laptop i had was just horrible and i've run into that with a few new desktops that i've worked on where dell has stuck first verison's of XP on their systems and they do nothing but crash all the time. As for my laptop they used an old version of 95 then sent upgrades to 98 although the 98 wasn't compatible with the version of 95 we had so it crashed system files and screwed with the VBX files. as to the mac's i just like to know why art and design schools use mostly mac's instead of pc's...that would be a big hint to me. not tryin to flame or anything just my opnions.

 

[Kooldino]

As for the compaq's i wasn't talking about the laptops....personally i dont like laptops at all, just personal preference there.

Ok, but compaq's desktops are relatively worse than their laptops. They're not HORRIBLE, but not good.

As for my software it's actually pretty much up to date...and most of the problems i've encountered with XP haven't been with my personal computer they've been with other peoples computers that have bought brand new software to use and it won't work...doesn't matter how hard you try...reinstallation actually trading the media in and getting a new set to reinstall, just doesn't cut it.

What software are you trying to run???? XP will run about 95% of the stuff that 98 will. I have TONS of programs that I run, and I rarely encounter one that won't run in XP. Usually those programs are older games.

the dell laptop i had was just horrible and i've run into that with a few new desktops that i've worked on where dell has stuck first verison's of XP on their systems and they do nothing but crash all the time.

Uh...they're still using the same version of XP today...they just have a few windows updates. Win XP SP1 is still in beta.

As for my laptop they used an old version of 95 then sent upgrades to 98 although the 98 wasn't compatible with the version of 95 we had so it crashed system files and screwed with the VBX files.

That's pretty common, actually. Never EVER install a copy of Windows over another copy of Windows. There's a good chance of it going to hell in a handbasket. Always install CLEAN.

as to the mac's i just like to know why art and design schools use mostly mac's instead of pc's...that would be a big hint to me. not tryin to flame or anything just my opnions.

It's because in the 80's, Apple gave Macs to those schools for free. They did it so that people learned on Macs, and then when they started businesses, they would use Macs, because that's what they already knew. Smart move by Steve Jobs...it worked. That's the only reason they're in place today. Legacy.

 

[ZoomZoomH]

Re: Re: my $3.50...

Your overall message is good, BUT...
1-Windows NT4 made PCs big time stable...and 2000 made them stable and COMPATIBLE with things. XP is just a pretty version of 2000.

ah, my bad, I meant CONSUMER (aka FOR HOMES) operating systems. Windows XP is able to combine the robustness of the NT kernel (or is it microkernel?) along with the hardware compatibility of the Win9x (Plug and Play support is a MAJOR addition that neither NT nor 2000 had)

Windows XP is the final convergence of Business (NT & 2000) Windows and Consumer (Win 9x) Windows into 1 single operating system. So yes, NT4 & 2000 brought stability to business PCs, but it's XP that finally made mainstream CONSUMER PC systems up to snuff with its business counterparts.

2-PC Hardware is still often the problem. motherboard chipsets, etc etc, can still be buggy. And theres tons of crap hardware out there. And even if the hardware is good, there are some even worse (cough...ATi) drivers out there.

I believe this IS getting better as inferior hardwares get phased out by superior ones (and end up on clearance racks ), along with updates to drivers. Yes there will be hardwares that simply won't work with XP, but you CAN ditch it and get one that DOES work with XP. The seemingly infinite choices of PC hardware (good and bad) is one of the BIGGEST advantage of PCs over Macs. The trick is to find out WHICH hardwares work with XP. ONCE YOU HAVE ALL THE COMPATIBLE HARDWARES/SOFTWARES IN PLACE, AND THE SYSTEM IS UP AND RUNNING, IT IS DAMN STABLE, that's the point I was trying to get across


As for where to buy, and what to buy, personally I prefer the homebrewed PC way, instead of buying complete systems from Dell and Gateway. yes it is harder (and sometimes more expensive) to DIY and build one from scratch, but it'll allow you to know EXACTLY what you have in the system, which is invaluable when tuning/fixing the system. Plus it's hella fun! (for me anyway )

 

[Kooldino]

Re: Re: Re: my $3.50...

ah, my bad, I meant CONSUMER (aka FOR HOMES) operating systems. Windows XP is able to combine the robustness of the NT kernel (or is it microkernel?) along with the hardware compatibility of the Win9x (Plug and Play support is a MAJOR addition that neither NT nor 2000 had)

Well, I guess win2000 wasn't "targeted" as a home OS, but most people I know who ran it, ran it at home. Also, sorry, but win2000 DOES support plug and play. Nt4 didn't. 2000 is just NT4 with Plug and Play...basically.

Windows XP is the final convergence of Business (NT & 2000) Windows and Consumer (Win 9x) Windows into 1 single operating system. So yes, NT4 & 2000 brought stability to business PCs, but it's XP that finally made mainstream CONSUMER PC systems up to snuff with its business counterparts.

Agreed.

I believe this IS getting better as inferior hardwares get phased out by superior ones (and end up on clearance racks ), along with updates to drivers. Yes there will be hardwares that simply won't work with XP, but you CAN ditch it and get one that DOES work with XP. The seemingly infinite choices of PC hardware (good and bad) is one of the BIGGEST advantage of PCs over Macs.

Most definitely...PCs have a ton of hardware that's compatible with it, opposed to a very limited amount like a Mac. But even today, buggy hardware is out. A year ago, the via KT266 was the hottest chipset around...but you know what? It had ISSUES. And it wasn't some 2nd rate chipset, either. Same with it's predecessor, the KT133a. It's just like a car...new better cars will come out...and over time, they'll be a trend for them to become more reliable, but there will always be recalls.

The trick is to find out WHICH hardwares work with XP. ONCE YOU HAVE ALL THE COMPATIBLE HARDWARES/SOFTWARES IN PLACE, AND THE SYSTEM IS UP AND RUNNING, IT IS DAMN STABLE, that's the point I was trying to get across

Agreed, and about any modern hardware will work fine in 2000/XP (same thing, really).

As for where to buy, and what to buy, personally I prefer the homebrewed PC way, instead of buying complete systems from Dell and Gateway. yes it is harder (and sometimes more expensive) to DIY and build one from scratch, but it'll allow you to know EXACTLY what you have in the system, which is invaluable when tuning/fixing the system. Plus it's hella fun! (for me anyway )

Word up. If you know what you're doing...or know someone who does...it's the best way to go. Plus you don't have all of their BS crap software installed like it would from Dell or Compaq. Plus home brewed are usually faster and more upgradeable.

 

[ZoomZoomH]

Win2k has PnP?

well spank my ass and call me silly.

And I use one everyday at work!, for software development too!!!

 

[stef_nz]

sure win2k has plug and play. it just comes with no drivers. you have to pretty much find all your own. xp pro will make basically anything run first time with the drivers that come standard - of course you can upgrade these later but the point being that after a clean install of xp, all the bits in your pc will be ready to go, not necessarily so with win2k.

i've been using xppro since september (sshh, don't tell, i'll deny it.) last year and have induced it to crash twice. it was my own fault both times. not once have i had an unexpected or unexplained crash. i know a lot of people have different stories to tell, but this is from my experience - and i have 12 years of it to share.

macs are cool too. they crash about as often as the earlier windows machines and take longer to boot. motorola processors are damn fast but they cost too much. they look cool, but there much vaunted multimedia capability is more of a legacy thing. it was mentioned earlier that the reason so many people think macs = multimedia capability is historical. sure, they are good at it but there aren't many of those applications which you can't get for pc now as well and we all know what the price difference would be.

honestly, price and stability are the biggest reasons for buying a pc(running xp), but these days, its more important to like what you get cos they really are just 2 different computing environments. pc/mac? mac/pc? whatever turns you on dude!

 

[APEXistud]

Thanks for all the great information guys. From what I've been hearing from the IT guys at my former job, they said to go with a Dell. Ad far as Mac goes, they didn't seem to informative. The graphics guy for the company loved talking to me about MAC's. But please keep the info commin.

 

[Kooldino]

sure win2k has plug and play. it just comes with no drivers. you have to pretty much find all your own.

Not really. It has drivers for a lot of popular devices, but not as many are included than are included w/ XP.

xp pro will make basically anything run first time with the drivers that come standard - of course you can upgrade these later but the point being that after a clean install of xp, all the bits in your pc will be ready to go, not necessarily so with win2k.

macs are cool too. they crash about as often as the earlier windows machines and take longer to boot. motorola processors are damn fast but they cost too much. they look cool, but there much vaunted multimedia capability is more of a legacy thing. it was mentioned earlier that the reason so many people think macs = multimedia capability is historical. sure, they are good at it but there aren't many of those applications which you can't get for pc now as well and we all know what the price difference would be.

Exactly. They have the same programs for Mac and PC (actually more progs for PC). ALthough there's nothing "cool" about macs.

honestly, price and stability are the biggest reasons for buying a pc(running xp), but these days, its more important to like what you get cos they really are just 2 different computing environments. pc/mac? mac/pc? whatever turns you on dude!

Nah, Mac OS is straight inferior. OSX helped close the gap, but it's still not as powerful as Win2k/xp

 

[stef_nz]

hey KoolDino, what i meant by "cool" is - if i owned a set of bongo drums, wore a beret, snapped my fingers a lot and my favorite saying was"far out man" i'm sure i'd want a mac just as much as the next guy.

seriously, at home i've always been in the pc/ms camp but i've used macs a lot at uni and i still like them.

 

[APEXistud]

Cool thing about whatever decision I make is that I'll be satisfied either way I go. My knowledge with PC's is good (at least I'd like to think so), and my knowledge on Mac's is a little less than on PCs. I think the main reason I would stick with a Mac is because pricing is not an issue. Luckly at certain times of the year, I get considerably large discounts. Like getting a Titanium G4 Powerbook for $1000 and if you know what the average price on those are, that comes down to one hell of a discount.

 

[stef_nz]

if you can get one of those things for $1k, you better damn well do it or i'll be givin' you a slap!

awesome deal!

 

[APEXistud]

I was slappimg myself for not buying one when I had the cash available. Now I have to wait for his deal to roll back around since the deals he get change every month.

 

[Allen]

[... snip... ]

And why do people think that multimedia is better on a Mac? I think ONE person started this terrible, terrible rumor, and then everyone else started spreading the disease of misinformation. Macs are inferior for multimedia, hands down. I hate to burst your bubble man, but you really don't know what you're talking about.
[...snip...]

I think the person who started the rumor may have been the developer of Photoshop.... backed up by say... Quark? Maybe more of others in the multimedia business, but I don't know of?

Nah man, you being up with it should know that Macs have stomped on any PC when it came to competing with graphics not too long ago. Macs are not inferior to PCs when multimedia is involved. Why do you think all the major companies use Mac for movie productions? When the movie, Titanic, was developed using Linux systems, everyone went ... "WOW!!! It's not on a Mac!!?!?" That is when the world realized the PC world also had a chance in multimedia production.... it just needed constant improvments (such as W2K, XP, better Photoshop for PC, & etc etc). You know the almighty Photoshop that you may use every day started out from Apple Mac, right? Quark was also developed on a Mac system (think magazine publishers).... both extermely popular multimedia products.

Most scientists (on average) are more familiar with Macs than they are with PCs (ask a chem scientist, biology scientist, etc... a non-computer majoring scientist... who has used both PC and Mac and see if they think PC is much easier for them to use than a Mac).... If ANYTHING, PCs are coming up to par with Mac quality in terms of ease of use and stability (think W2K = stability, XP = stability & ease of use, and Linux stability & power)... NOT the other way around.

Take any serious reviewer of BOTH OS systems (one who actually knows how to use BOTH Mac and PC systems) and they will tell you that Mac is still on top of PCs when you do any serious multimedia production. I think you're just being a hardcore PC defender and Mac basher, but there are lots of folks like that out on the internet. Don't get me wrong, I'm a PC user as well and back it up whole-heartedly ... but I will give due credit from what I have read and heard about the Mac communities. Macs are no slouch when put up against the PC folks.

If Mac could be easily cloned like a PC, then I would not mind trying it out... there ARE benefits with Apple hardwares... less "incompatibile" peripherials are developed compared to the wide range of PC peripherial parts. And obviously the downside of Apple is cost.... Plus, what's the deal with that one button mouse? I think that's crap from Apple to give away.

As Kooldino has touched base on, PCs can be WAAAY more powerful than a Mac system.... many many proofs have been shown around the world already. Not to mention... MORE FUN!!! Although, I also don't think owning a Mac is cool... but hey, we're talking social acceptance now!! haha.

I agree that APEXistud benefits from Mac more than with a PC for what he wants to do (if cost is not a factor). Damn, you should have placed this thread in the flamewars. The never-ending debate between PC and Macs. LOL!

Hmm... but then we really don't have many hardcore Mac backers, huh?

I just got done watching the worst Jet Li movie ever IMO ... I think it missed out on some features... such as a plot and some decent stunt choreograph. The movie is called, The Legend. Directed by Jet Li... Jet Li's performance was sooo mediocre... dubbed in English... waaaaa... it sucked and it takes a lot for me to dislike any Chinese martial art movie! :'(