Shifting Tips

[buttdart]

i have a 98 5spd contour with an aftermarket spec clutch. i went from driving my MS3 to driving that for a day last week and it was a joke! driving the MS3 a lot of 'work' to say the least. it's a blast, but the clutch is in fact extremely touchy. when you bounce back n forth from one MT to another, the MS3 is tricky. i let my sister drive my MS3 last week. she drives a 5spd toyota. she stalled my car twice in 30 seconds. hahahha

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

The MS3 is surprisingly similar to a BMW clutch, just not as hard. I have been launching my MS3 in the 3500-4000 RPM range and barely see 1st at all. Speed shifting second is easy and then nailing 3rd is the deal breaker. If you can get 3rd on a speed shift there are a lot more cars you will put down that way.

 

[MS3077]

The MS3 is surprisingly similar to a BMW clutch, just not as hard. I have been launching my MS3 in the 3500-4000 RPM range and barely see 1st at all. Speed shifting second is easy and then nailing 3rd is the deal breaker. If you can get 3rd on a speed shift there are a lot more cars you will put down that way.

+1

Yeah 3rd is the "Make or Break" grear.

I think the problem is that when you are at about 5500rpms in 2nd at WOT the cars front end is lifting up too much to actually make a fast / clean shift into 3rd. The transmission on our cars doesn't allow a fast 2-3rd shift much of the time, if it did we would see faster 1/4's for sure.

The only think that I can think of besides the really obviously things such as (MM,Synthetic fluid,Bushings) is to rise the rear tire pressue to about 40psi to help limit the front end lift during WOT shifts and of course lowering the front tire pressure to maybe 26-30psi.

 

[haberdashery]

the clutch on the regular mazda3 is vaaaastly different from the one on the speed3, but i prefer the speed3, it doesn't feel cheap like the one on the regular3. sitting in bumper-to-bumper traffic might change my mind though

 

[Antoniogut]

The MS3 is surprisingly similar to a BMW clutch, just not as hard. I have been launching my MS3 in the 3500-4000 RPM range and barely see 1st at all. Speed shifting second is easy and then nailing 3rd is the deal breaker. If you can get 3rd on a speed shift there are a lot more cars you will put down that way.

thank god i thought I was the only one havin trouble gettin into 3rd on a speed shift

 

[blkMs3th]

I learned stick on an early 80's volvo wagon (16 years ago) and it would only go into first while the vehicle was in motion, If you came to stop before shifting - oooof, rasslin' time. It would also pop out of gear under load at times.

Since then I have owned half a dozen manual cars with varying degrees of ease (or not) in shifting. I have my best experience when I learn how to drive the car I have, rather than driving like a car I used to have (or how I think it _should_ drive).

then again, I also don't think I drive a high end performance vehicle.

 

[ResilientMike]

I've launched from 2000-3000rpms and havent much issues with traction on the street until maybe 3200rpms where the wheels break loose more.

When launching however (going to track the car this week) I took a tip from some awesome drivers atthe shop I do video/photos for, and have been trying to blip the gas a few times to give the flywheel some inertia and momentum before giving a little slip of the clutch and the car literally hooks and takes off.

As for flat/power shifting, I don't think it's worth having the risk of ruining the teeth on the clutch. Learn to shift faster (put some pressure on the stick in the direction of the next shift, and learn to have lighter feet and it's just as fast as flat/power shifting imo.

 

[4thStroke]

learn to have lighter feet and it's just as fast as flat/power shifting imo.

Its not always about the fast shifting, but rather keeping the RPMs up during the shift. When the RPMs drop, so does boost. With the throttle down during a shift, the turbo keeps spooling.

Whats going to get you off the line quicker, launching from idle, or launching with some RPMs built?

You can even let off the gas part way and it keeps the turbo spooling.

I am still surprised how long it takes to build boost during WOT runs when shifting and letting off the as 100%.

Its not as fast, I promise. The shifting is just as fast, but not the car.

 

[Silver Ecstasy]

I agree with 4th Stroke. That was part of my learning curve. The rpm's don't fall so fast like a NA car. So I had to get used to that to shift better. This is my first FI car.

 

[ResilientMike]

I know exactly what you're saying and thanks for explaining. I guess on my side of things, I would rather save the cars drivetrain in lieu of not having upgraded flywheel/clutch to test flat/power shifting to keep the rpms up. You have a less chance of misshifting and over-revving the car.

For me, this comes with experience driving lots of my old customer cars for joy rides. On the stock tranny, I would be hesitant to put any risk on it

Added: IMO, we need to get a video of two identical cars and same skilled drivers to test it out ;P

 

[Jasnall]

I've been a valet and have driven a lot of stick cars, none have been as picky as the MS3 seems(minus a 70's ford pickup, man my leg was sore). It feels like a relatively long clutch with a really short engage point, and once it hits that point it wants to go. I've found it just want more gas than i expect, then the shifts are smoother. But it's only been 6 days i'm still adjusting.

as for launching, The 2k-3k range sounds right, its all about feeling the clutch out IMO especially with FWD, it really wants to spin.

 

[4thStroke]

ResilientMike, I try to keep flat foot shifting for the track, like you said, in lieu of the tranny. However, it finds its way to the streets too often, its just too much fun for me.

What I have been doing lately, if I decide to drive spirited, is just let off part way. Its not as tough to tackle, saves the powertrain some, and the shifts dont have to be as violent. I just cant stand how long it takes the car to recover between shifts. Almost 100% of the time I shift this way I experience no grinding at all, shifting at 6k.

As far as the identicle drivers/cars and testing each method... Ive made many runs with my dads 2000 Saleen Mustang. A friend of ours rents a local track from time to time and we spend the day pounding on the cars. My quickest time ever with the car was 13.4. Flat foot shifting 3rd is very tough with this car because of the shifter, it just doesnt like to slide in, it requires a lot of guidance. The one time I was able to manage this, I ran the 13.4. Every time after that, I quite trying to FFS 3rd because I kept missing. My best time since is 13.5. 1st to 2nd, FFS. 2nd to 3rd, granny. 3rd to 4th, FFS. Before I started FFS the car, my times were considerably higher.

My MS3 has never been down the 1/4 without the pedal ever being lifted (except when a shift was missed). Its the only way I will race a car that I am comfortable in. If done correctly, it will turn a faster time, every time.

 

[ResilientMike]

I see what you mean 4th. Even though I've practiced on many a car (Ferrari's, Porche's, and Supra's), I guess most of why I'm reluctant is that it's a stock tranny and I'm afraid of powershifting through the gears. Maybe one day I'll try it, but I just feel like since it's still a fairly new car with stock parts I haven't researched it's durability, that I'll stick to short shifting.

Like I say in life, to each his own.

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

You shift to 3rd is an over compensation as to where the gear is. If you just go up with your FFS (as you like to call it) into 3rd, not looking for the gear, the tranny will go there naturally. You are probably finding that you are not hitting the gear at all, missing it, or you are grinding it out a lot because you timed it wrong and your clutch foot is already coming off. Try it, just shift straight up like you shifted straight down from 1st into second. Just do the shifts, dont let up on the clutch a couple of times so you can see and become comfortable with it.

 

[AGM130]

Yeh the MS3 is touchy, Never stalled a car so much. I think I am paying too much attention to the sound of the exhaust and not the feel of the car. Usually stall it when I'm trying to take off nice and easy.

This is what i learned to drive on, an 85 Vette