Rear Speaker Discussion

1sty

Member
Contributor
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2006 Toyota Tundra DC
Discuss the uses, advantage, and disadvantages of rear speakers.


The uses of rear speakers has come up alot as of late so I thought it best to make a sticky about it.

Typicly rear speakers have 1 of 2 functions:
1. Provide more direct audio for rear seat passangers
2. Provide overall louder volumes when a seperate amp can not be used with better front speakers only.

There are also 2 types of listeners:

1. Some want a quality sound that can obtain a certain volume with out distortion and they want to be consumed by sound. These are not true SQ listeners as this setup would be anything but SQ. It doesn't mean they want crappy sound, just that they don't really care about staging. The typicle uses of rear speakers fall into this catagory of listener. In these situations, the rear speakers need only match the fronts in tonal quality so that they sound is the same throught the car.

2. The others want to create some form of stage like at a concert or atleast like a home audio system can create. This is not an easy task and rear speakers can play a role here although the role is that of manipulation.

Now, the arguments of late have been rear speakers role in an SQ setup. The reality is that the rear speakers can play a small part in a true SQ system but it is not the role most people think. First, lets deinfe the ideals of sound quality. First and most important, all sound should appear to come from in front of you. Nothing by Sound Quality terms should ever be audible from behind you. This is to create a sound stage. This stage should be as wide, as deep, and as high as possible. Almost like a litte concern on your dash board.

Becuase of this, the more expeirenced members will be quick to tell a newb that rear speakers are useless for SQ. This is true in regards to the way most people use rear speakers. For instance, powering the rear speakers equaly to the front is actualy anti SQ (sound quality) this is becuase they will draw the sound to the rear of the car where it should not be by sound quality standards. If the rear speakers are in the rear door, they will also lower the sound stage and kill its depth.

However, the placement of the rear speakers can actualy aid in staging.
In either posistion, the rear speakers should be audible but not to the point that you can tell they are on. In other words, they are for "Effect" only.

Rear Doors:
Rear door speakers can be used to widen the stage. Since the speakers are low, they will also lower the sound stage. However, their position will help in tricking our ears into thinking the stage is wider then the front speakers can produce on there own.

Rear Deck:
Rear deck speakers are cool in that their height will allow them to actualy raise the sound stage higher as they are typicly higher then the fronts. However, they will also kill the depth of the sound stage and often its width too.

In either case, deck power is often more then enough to do the job. However, this "effect" takes a good amount of tuning with crossover points and gain levels. Often an EQ needs to be involved too. Becuase of this, an amp is usualy needed as you don't have the needed amount of adjustability in a head unit. And a unit that has this level of adjustability won't typicly have it on the speaker outputs.

Another part of this is the frequencies being played. Most often, rear speakers in SQ are not full range. Infact there is rarely any form of tweeter. This is becuase high frequencies are the most directional to our ears so if we play them behind us, they will totaly distract us from the front stage, even at very low volumes.

So in short, rear speakers can alwasy be useful but they must be used properly based on the listeners wants and their positioning. For true SQ they should be not audible and should be used for effect. Yes, they should be amplifier in these situations to properly tune them. However, they should not ever have even 1/2 the power the front do as it will be wasted. So even if you have to use a 4 channel amp, turn the gains way down on the rears or fade the radio foward to lower the rear speakers output level.
 
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In my opinion, there was better sound quality when I replaced the rear with Speakers the same brand and model as the front.

I had Kenwood speakers in the rear doors and eventually replaced them with the same Pioneer model (my personal favourite) as the front doors. The sound was more even in the car and was clearer. It resulted in more of a "surround" type sound. Note that I am a complete newbie when it comes to car audio.
 
For the poor mortals that sit in the back. :) Takes away from a nice front sound stage IMO.
 
exactly tease, thats why i prefaced it with simple. its not always the best but it keeps the whiners in the back seat quiet.
 
For the rear seaters, I like to setup a decent rear speaker but keep the radio faded foward for SQ. Then when I have passangers, I have a full range speaker I can fade back in within a few seconds.
 
There is one potential other use for rear speakers which you forgot to touch on firsty... New formats of media on the horizon that incorporate Surrond sound... We all know I'm a large proponent of a front-heavy soundstage, and prettymuch have just given up on my rear speakers alltogether as far as stereo is concerned....

Nowthen, should anyone start truely embracing the new digital formats available for audio (including artists/recording companies, etc) And, perhaps if a single one could be nailed down, the 12v HiFi world COULD be turned around.

Currently, TRUE 5.1 (or4.1) signals are very difficult to come by at best. At the moment the primary application would be mostly novel in providing surround sound for incar movies. on indash dvd players (only a select few actually have surround sound output) However, I've recently been getting into some DVD audio, and things like the Flaming Lips' Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots DVDA is awesome in a HT surround setup.

The strangeness to a surround setup would be that it would indeed be ideally of equal volumes. (granted recorded information is rarely as loud on the rear channels)

At anyrate, this is obviously a fairly limited (not to mention spendy) situation, but one indeed worthy of mention.
 
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True, plus its already very possible with the present generation of equiptment. Alpine for example has several car sourround proccessors.
 
I understand your point about the stage sound and agree to a point. When I'm in the car I like the music I have to be set at a 55/45 split, as in 55% of the sound coming from the front and 45 from the back. I like to be able to crank it up and from the out side of the car it sounds equal. But your right I don't like it when the back over powers the front. The problem I face is trying to find a good front speaker that wont break the bank but still give you good mids also.
 
There are plenty of good coaxles that will do the job for around $150 or less per pair at full retail.
If you are not going for staging, as you are not, then don't waste the money to by a great set of front speakers as there advantages and intended use is not going to be part of your system.

If I were you I would get something like matching polk or JL coaxles and install them in the front and back and give them equal power from a nice little 4 channel amp like a e4300. Do a e6450 if you want all the e4300 has plus you can run subs from its 5/6 channels.
 
only used rear speakers in my previous P5 because of my audio visual setup. needed the surround sound.
 
Maybe i am just retarded (quite possible) but i actually prefer most of my music coming from behind me. I actually have my home surround sound set up in reverse with the fronts in back. So when i listen to music it comes from behind (which i like, odd no doubt) And then when i watch a movie, my projector projects onto the wall where the front are mounted, so i just turn around, and have surround sound the right way for the movie.

Anyways, in my car i have the sound faded 45/55 to the rear, and i generally play it at around 110 dB.

Just different i guess, Dunno if i ever went to a rock concert if i would stand backwards!

CiaO

Matt
 
Many people who are new to aftermarket car audio are usually looking for a way to get better sound from their factory system or simply be able to listen louder. Since they don't quite understand sound quality, I will offer an approach they do understand...Money $$$. Simply put, 4-channels costs more than 2-channels so spending the same amount on a 2-channel setup will yeild a better sounding and louder system.

By far the cheapest solution is to just replace speakers or just replace the head unit. I do not recommend either of these solutions because the factory head unit does not put out enough power to make aftermarket speakers sound good and the factory speakers don't sound any better with more power. In short, the speakers gotta go and their replacements need more power.

So on a very tight budget, instead of purchasing two pairs of coax speakers and a high-output head unit you could purchase one pair of components and a 30-50 watt x 2 amp for the same amount of money (starting at $500-700). You can make a system for less if you shop around but in general these two options will cost about the same. The advantange of the component/amp solution is that it can play louder and it will sound much better. You won't have the neato display or mp3 playback that you get with a new headunit but for those of you looking for better sound...those things aren't important.

If you have a little more money in your budget and were considering two pairs of speakers and a 4-channel amp, you could use that money to buy a real nice set of components and a 2-channel amp or a good set of components and a subwoofer along with the 4-channel amp (starting at $700-1200). The alternative might be a little more costly in this case but trust me...with the subwoofer handling the low notes the components will be able to really sing at loud listening levels without any distortion. There is no 4-channel full-range setup in this price range that can come close.

So if you are considering a 4-channel setup, take a look at these alternatives. Open a new thread if you're not sure what to buy. People in this forum love picking out equipment for other members. You can also take a look at the $1000 audio challenge thread for some interesting ideas.
 
I have a little differnt take on this... simply because I am making a theatre in my car as well as it performing its duties as a stereo... since I have true a 5.1 (7.1 capable) sound card in my carputer the rear speakers will need adaquate power otherwise there will be no surround. but they will be controlled when I "switch" the system to music mode. but the rear is VERY important in my situation.

and on another note, I will be powering my new front speakers I just bought (decided on the Focal 165K2P, w00t!) with around 110W RMS, and the rears with around 30watts. I'll probably buy a 4 channel 30W RMS per channel amp, and run it in tri mode, giving my center channel I'm making with around 60watts or so (center channel is ultimately important for both dolby digital and DTS.

I'm still toying with the idea of adding in rear door speakers as well for the 7.1 effect, but there just aren't enough movies out with this potential.
 
Thanks for making a discussion on this 1sty. I definately agree, from my own ears perspective, that having tweets in the rear doors detracts form the sound stage. But the extra midbass in the doors helps fill the gap between the front and the sub in the rear. I think get a decent set of midbass drivers, amp them and call it a day.(rockon)
 
FoxPro5 said:
Thanks for making a discussion on this 1sty. I definately agree, from my own ears perspective, that having tweets in the rear doors detracts form the sound stage. But the extra midbass in the doors helps fill the gap between the front and the sub in the rear. I think get a decent set of midbass drivers, amp them and call it a day.(rockon)
You'd be surprised what success you can have just by playing with the crossovers for your sub and front speakers. I was doing this with my fiance while I tuned her system the other day (3-way CDTs up front and a 10" IDQ in the trunk). She sat in the car and listened as I made changes and she said it was like night and day.

I originally had the crossovers set at 75Hz. By the end the components were crossed over at 87Hz and the sub was crossed over at 80hz. Even though the speakers up front could handle 75Hz, the sound was very different from the sub and the separation was noticable. Moving it up higher and leaving a small gap between the fronts and the sub allowed them to blend seamlessly.
 
One thing I would like to add to the front-soundstage discussion.. it's called STEREO as in 2 channels of recorded sound TWO not four. Anyone who really believes that being wrapped in STEREO sound is by far superior should really take a listen to a properly setup car.

I guess I'm just irritable, but I find it frustrating that so many people stumble through life wasting money on rear speakers. Before posting an explanation or a defense, just please, you owe it to yourself to listen to a properly setup car. hell even a decent one. Rear speakermoney= a waste of perfectly good money that could've bought you an amp for your fronts and REALLY made a difference.

Some of the knowing ones here are either being nice about it, or they've just finally caved in to the masses with their herd mentality. Beleive me, I know I have to deal with it at work all the time and it's really mostly just not worth it, but in here where people are theoretically atleast curious about what might sound halfway decent, NO I'm not gonna humor it. the usual crutchfield-esque recipe of car audio that involves upgrading all speakers and powering them off of a deck doesnt' even really add much volume infact it generally takes away bass responce.

The excuses that the knowledgeable kids inhere have offeredup for rear speakers are primarily just that EXCUSES... It does not mean they think it's the best idea in the world, simply stating that there is SOME potential application.
 
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Poseur said:
I guess I'm just irritable, but I find it frustrating that so many people stumble through life wasting money on rear speakers. Before posting an explanation or a defense, just please, you owe it to yourself to listen to a properly setup car. hell even a decent one. Rear speakermoney= a waste of perfectly good money that could've bought you an amp for your fronts and REALLY made a difference.
.

I did just that and have to admit that you are right. The car I saw was a 2000 Honda Civic Hatchback with Alpine head unit, amp and front speakers and front tweeters (mounted right above the speaker, facing the driver). The rear were the Honda stock ones and were not amped. It had been professionally setup and the sound was just bloody amazing!

Indeed the rear don't do a lot in a properly setup car. (2thumbs)
 
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